No help for Rowan

[takeaway]

so will AR throw Baroose in the ruck at various stages? And will Acres stay in to provide another ruck option?
He's reverted to old bad habits. Leave Baroose and Blacres out of the flamin ruck, it RUINS them

When did he ever stop...

Yes, Jack Reiwoldt, Taylor Walker, Patrick Cripps, Nat Fyfe, etc etc all played in the ruck. It ruins them. So many clubs copying Richo. Trendsetter.

Strange post.

Are you arguing that it’s working well for us? Is there an alternate universe where Acres was BOG last week.

No, Hawks have 2 rucks, I would have had Longer in, but maybe he is not ready. Pierce not showing much form. Hence according to form/availability, one ruck selected, with relief provided by Bruce, Wilkie, Acres, etc. So we are just doing the same as other teams with one main ruck - Tigers used Jack R, Cripps is used for Blues, Fyfe at boundary throw ins, and plenty of others. So these clubs are also ruining those players? Not just "bad habits" by Saints only. That was my point.

They also may not wish to lose pace by adding another ruck. Not sure what you are getting at in comment re Acres.

So you don’t like this type of set up and would do something different if it was viable?

I have to imagine however that you’re aware that we’ve been doing this heavily over 3 years with guys like Bruce, Gilbert, Paddy, Acres and Steel amongst the relief options.


See I just don’t understand what drives you to makes posts like these. Why are you trying to swat criticism away from something you don’t even agree with. Nowhere in this thread have I said it ruins players.

Yes I’m critical of Richo. In this instance the move with the ruck has repeatedly proven to be a failure...
Second ruck (the player who is not actually a ruck) gets beaten comprehensively in the middle. The Saints generally struggle more in the middle during this time.

It impacts said players performance in their primary role... Bruce’s output as a forward has dropped since he started doing it... hadn’t done anything for Acres, Steele or Paddy.

Development wise it’s done nothing for us. Pierce has languished Sandy not able to get games... ditto Marshall until injuries gave him a chance and both Hickey + Longer have struggled over years... pbly because they’re not good enough to carry a ruck division without any adequate support.

So all things considered what motivates my posts is that the move sucks, it has a detrimental impact on the team, and is a contributing factor to our stalling development.

But you... you’re motivated by what?
Having a dig at me because I irritate you? Wanting to stand up for the coach because he’s maligned?
Wanting to show you’re a good, loyal supporter?

Whatever your reason it’s not because you genuinely think this is a good move... but rather pushes the narrative of whatever personal agenda you want to push.
And your way of thinking is actually hurting the club as it contributes to the continuation of an obviously stupid move that objectively is terrible.

So much of this forum as of late is ppl pushing a personal agenda that’s not based on what is observably happening
- Hannebery out of our leadership group is a great sign/move
- Essendon and GC are great wins. Essendon are top 4 and GC aren’t terrible
- Paddy is looking good for a breakout year
- Longer is dominating the VFL with his presence (not just winning hit outs in beaten midfield and doing SFA else)
- Weller playing for Richmond vindicates Richo playing him relentlessly when he was in poor form
- Saints have played 3 games vs 3 non-finalists... 2 of which were decided by less than a kick and the other by a 3 goals and look to regenerated and be September bound

It’s quite hard to read

Talk about making mountains out of molehills. I realise you did not state it ruins players - I was responding to the content of the relevant posts. Not having a dig at you.

As stated in my last post, against Hawks (and Melb if Pruess in) I would prefer 2 rucks. But the actual situation is Longer not AFL fit yet (I assume, or they want to keep their speed) and Pierce does not deserve a game. So the best alternative is Marshall, with relief provided by Bruce, etc. Not a stupid move. What else can they do? Give Lonie a go?

As twirlyhair said in the post before yours -

“Yep. It is the trend now, with clubs really cautious they are not top heavy. Having the midfielders shark a losing ruckman is key.”

I agree with this. Many clubs are playing one main ruckman and filling in with Riewoldts, Cripps,etc. Others like Hawks, Pies have two mobile capable rucks and can play 2. We’ll see how it plays out during the season with the new rules and a bit more space playing a part. I think it is likely to see the “mini rucks” being an increasing trend, it will be interesting. Has Richo got a crystal ball?

I’m hoping when ready Longer can play in the same team as Marshall, and take the majority of the hit outs, but obviously not feasible or preferred at the moment. It also may make us too top heavy, with Carlisle as well. So we go with the current selections & Bruce & co, similar to quite a few other teams.

No personal agendas (where did that come from?), just observations, and I’m not expecting a Saints’ flag this year, but the trends are looking good.

[scallopsroe]

I wish Rowan the very best of luck on Sunday. I'll be there cheering on a 15 game veteran against three Hawks ruckmen (Big Boy, Ceglar and Roughhead) with a combined 531 game experience. If we pull this one off and have a win it will go down as one of the Saints greatest victories in recent times. What is going on at the selection table for heavens sake.

[bigcarl]

I wish Rowan the very best of luck on Sunday. I'll be there cheering on a 15 game veteran against three Hawks ruckmen (Big Boy, Ceglar and Roughhead) with a combined 531 game experience. If we pull this one off and have a win it will go down as one of the Saints greatest victories in recent times. What is going on at the selection table for heavens sake.

It sounds ridiculous when you put it in those terms, doesn’t it.

[footynut]

so will AR throw Baroose in the ruck at various stages? And will Acres stay in to provide another ruck option?
He's reverted to old bad habits. Leave Baroose and Blacres out of the flamin ruck, it RUINS them

When did he ever stop...

Yes, Jack Reiwoldt, Taylor Walker, Patrick Cripps, Nat Fyfe, etc etc all played in the ruck. It ruins them. So many clubs copying Richo. Trendsetter.

Strange post.

Are you arguing that it’s working well for us? Is there an alternate universe where Acres was BOG last week.

No, Hawks have 2 rucks, I would have had Longer in, but maybe he is not ready. Pierce not showing much form. Hence according to form/availability, one ruck selected, with relief provided by Bruce, Wilkie, Acres, etc. So we are just doing the same as other teams with one main ruck - Tigers used Jack R, Cripps is used for Blues, Fyfe at boundary throw ins, and plenty of others. So these clubs are also ruining those players? Not just "bad habits" by Saints only. That was my point.

They also may not wish to lose pace by adding another ruck. Not sure what you are getting at in comment re Acres.

So you don’t like this type of set up and would do something different if it was viable?

I have to imagine however that you’re aware that we’ve been doing this heavily over 3 years with guys like Bruce, Gilbert, Paddy, Acres and Steel amongst the relief options.


See I just don’t understand what drives you to makes posts like these. Why are you trying to swat criticism away from something you don’t even agree with. Nowhere in this thread have I said it ruins players.

Yes I’m critical of Richo. In this instance the move with the ruck has repeatedly proven to be a failure...
Second ruck (the player who is not actually a ruck) gets beaten comprehensively in the middle. The Saints generally struggle more in the middle during this time.

It impacts said players performance in their primary role... Bruce’s output as a forward has dropped since he started doing it... hadn’t done anything for Acres, Steele or Paddy.

Development wise it’s done nothing for us. Pierce has languished Sandy not able to get games... ditto Marshall until injuries gave him a chance and both Hickey + Longer have struggled over years... pbly because they’re not good enough to carry a ruck division without any adequate support.

So all things considered what motivates my posts is that the move sucks, it has a detrimental impact on the team, and is a contributing factor to our stalling development.

But you... you’re motivated by what?
Having a dig at me because I irritate you? Wanting to stand up for the coach because he’s maligned?
Wanting to show you’re a good, loyal supporter?

Whatever your reason it’s not because you genuinely think this is a good move... but rather pushes the narrative of whatever personal agenda you want to push.
And your way of thinking is actually hurting the club as it contributes to the continuation of an obviously stupid move that objectively is terrible.

So much of this forum as of late is ppl pushing a personal agenda that’s not based on what is observably happening
- Hannebery out of our leadership group is a great sign/move
- Essendon and GC are great wins. Essendon are top 4 and GC aren’t terrible
- Paddy is looking good for a breakout year
- Longer is dominating the VFL with his presence (not just winning hit outs in beaten midfield and doing SFA else)
- Weller playing for Richmond vindicates Richo playing him relentlessly when he was in poor form
- Saints have played 3 games vs 3 non-finalists... 2 of which were decided by less than a kick and the other by a 3 goals and look to regenerated and be September bound

It’s quite hard to read

It's obvious that Richo doesn't want 2 legitemrnt rucks. Therefore the selection committee needs to select a versatile player such Rowe (when fit) that play ruck, forward or back (Carlisle would also be suited to this role).

On a side note I believe Marsh (when fit) will be a valuable addition to our team. Can play anywhere & could and could help Acres developed.

[Yorkeys]

Analogy in other codes: not contesting the line out; the fake scrums in league. Means the/a defensive pattern kicks in when the actual RM doesn't contest. At the same time make sure the opposition second ruck is worked over somewhat in general play and hope the extra agility in the middle wins a few balls from indecisive hits. The risk is easy clearances but I suppose that is a calculated one.

[realdeal]

[/quote]

It's obvious that Richo doesn't want 2 legitemrnt rucks. Therefore the selection committee needs to select a versatile player such Rowe (when fit) that play ruck, forward or back (Carlisle would also be suited to this role).

On a side note I believe Marsh (when fit) will be a valuable addition to our team. Can play anywhere & could and could help Acres developed.
[/quote]

Exactly, im fine with only playing 1 ruck but we're already short up fwd and down back. Bruce going into the ruck leaves an undersized Membrey and 5 crumbers.. its crazy. Esp when we then precede to bomb it fwd anyway...

Bring joyce in, that allows him to pinch hit in ruck or put Bruce in ruck but then you have the flexibility to push Battle fwd so we can at least create contests..

Good ole Jason Blake would be perfect for us..

[Scollop]

I wish Rowan the very best of luck on Sunday. I'll be there cheering on a 15 game veteran against three Hawks ruckmen (Big Boy, Ceglar and Roughhead) with a combined 531 game experience. If we pull this one off and have a win it will go down as one of the Saints greatest victories in recent times. What is going on at the selection table for heavens sake.

It sounds ridiculous when you put it in those terms, doesn’t it.

RoMa needs help. If we are shooting to play finals and shooting for a top 4 spot next year...or even a PREMIERSHIP

It's a long season and the teams that have back up have fared well with finals and with silverware over the years. Hawthorn and Clarkson usually had a guy as number 1 tap ruckman but also had a back up ruck with either Hale or Roughhead and they won 3 flags in a row

Our Coach thought he'd have a better idea and did not want to follow that model when he became our head coach

I reckon the Bulldogs were fortunate that Roughhead, Cordy and Boyd all had some ruck experience. The Tigers had an exceptional team and some very talented A grade footballers in their midfield. Saints may get there in another year or two with our midfield, but we have a way to go to match their bookends

The premiers last year had Vardy and Lycett. This year they are still playing 2 ruckman

The Pies and Cats and other teams like Bombers, Port Adelaide and others are also following the Clarko model

Not sure if we have someone who can be as agile and as good a footballer as Marshall on our list, but I'm pretty sure that I did not see both Tom and Rowan lining up for the Saints in the last 3 years.

Hopefully RoMa stays injury free in 2019 and hopefully Max or a new draftee (that plays similarly to a Vardy or Lycett or Roughead or Hale) can fill the role at the Saints in 2020

[Shaggy]

I wish Rowan the very best of luck on Sunday. I'll be there cheering on a 15 game veteran against three Hawks ruckmen (Big Boy, Ceglar and Roughhead) with a combined 531 game experience. If we pull this one off and have a win it will go down as one of the Saints greatest victories in recent times. What is going on at the selection table for heavens sake.

It sounds ridiculous when you put it in those terms, doesn’t it.

RoMa needs help. If we are shooting to play finals and shooting for a top 4 spot next year...or even a PREMIERSHIP

It's a long season and the teams that have back up have fared well with finals and with silverware over the years. Hawthorn and Clarkson usually had a guy as number 1 tap ruckman but also had a back up ruck with either Hale or Roughhead and they won 3 flags in a row

Our Coach thought he'd have a better idea and did not want to follow that model when he became our head coach

I reckon the Bulldogs were fortunate that Roughhead, Cordy and Boyd all had some ruck experience. The Tigers had an exceptional team and some very talented A grade footballers in their midfield. Saints may get there in another year or two with our midfield, but we have a way to go to match their bookends

The premiers last year had Vardy and Lycett. This year they are still playing 2 ruckman

The Pies and Cats and other teams like Bombers, Port Adelaide and others are also following the Clarko model

Not sure if we have someone who can be as agile and as good a footballer as Marshall on our list, but I'm pretty sure that I did not see both Tom and Rowan lining up for the Saints in the last 3 years.

Hopefully RoMa stays injury free in 2019 and hopefully Max or a new draftee (that plays similarly to a Vardy or Lycett or Roughead or Hale) can fill the role at the Saints in 2020

We are currently running with Bruce, Acres, & Wilke as backup rucks. It has worked. Those 3 have thrived being unshackled with their short times in the ruck. Our mids move into roving to the opposition when they are on and we are doing well from clearances.

When not injured Max King and Carlisle will be preferred to winning the tap-outs.

Max and Jake actually may not work for us because we are really good at roving to the opp.

Regardless I would be very happy running with all 5 as back-up rucks and using whoever needs a run in the ruck at the time so long as Roma is going for 70% of the time.

Roma will get injured and Longer will ruck. He is tough. He makes his opponent work even when he is beaten. Hickey did not. I am not a great fan of Pierce and IMO he needs to keep learning and dominate in the VFL first. He is highly regarded by a lot of others, just not me.

[Scollop]

If Longer cannot break into the team based on good form, then according to your thinking we do not need him. Rowan is an asset in the ruck because of his clearance work, his contested marking, his ability to at least compete and neutralise a certain percentage of the contests and mostly because he works hard enough and is competent enough to take marks and kick clutch goals for his team. What makes you think Longer can do what Marshall can do?

According to your thinking and this philosophy of having only one recognised ruck, IF Rowan gets injured we should just name Bruce as the ruckman, get Wilkie and Acres and Battle to give Bruce relief and perhaps even Benny Long competes a few times like he did against Ceglar and McEvoy.

I reckon the way Wilkie has played and the defensive work he is doing at the moment I reckon we can't afford to have him out of position. Anyhow, it is better imo to plan to bring in Longer to ruck for lengthy periods against similar types to himself and I'd prefer that Marshall stays in the team but only rucks verly limited minutes. We must plan our strategy so that we plan and manage whatappearstobe one of our most valuable assets for the time being. We must plan rather than wait for injuries.

Why would you say "Roma will get injured"? Would prefer you say that IF he gets injured because saying he will is a bit presumptuous

[Shaggy]

If Longer cannot break into the team based on good form, then according to your thinking we do not need him. Rowan is an asset in the ruck because of his clearance work, his contested marking, his ability to at least compete and neutralise a certain percentage of the contests and mostly because he works hard enough and is competent enough to take marks and kick clutch goals for his team. What makes you think Longer can do what Marshall can do?

According to your thinking and this philosophy of having only one recognised ruck, IF Rowan gets injured we should just name Bruce as the ruckman, get Wilkie and Acres and Battle to give Bruce relief and perhaps even Benny Long competes a few times like he did against Ceglar and McEvoy.

I reckon the way Wilkie has played and the defensive work he is doing at the moment I reckon we can't afford to have him out of position. Anyhow, it is better imo to plan to bring in Longer to ruck for lengthy periods against similar types to himself and I'd prefer that Marshall stays in the team but only rucks verly limited minutes. We must plan our strategy so that we plan and manage whatappearstobe one of our most valuable assets for the time being. We must plan rather than wait for injuries.

Why would you say "Roma will get injured"? Would prefer you say that IF he gets injured because saying he will is a bit presumptuous

I am not sure what you are talking about.

Why would anyone want Marshall to ruck very limited minutes. He is AA material as a ruck.

Of course he is going to get hurt. That is the life of a ruck.

[stonecold]

If Longer cannot break into the team based on good form, then according to your thinking we do not need him. Rowan is an asset in the ruck because of his clearance work, his contested marking, his ability to at least compete and neutralise a certain percentage of the contests and mostly because he works hard enough and is competent enough to take marks and kick clutch goals for his team. What makes you think Longer can do what Marshall can do?

According to your thinking and this philosophy of having only one recognised ruck, IF Rowan gets injured we should just name Bruce as the ruckman, get Wilkie and Acres and Battle to give Bruce relief and perhaps even Benny Long competes a few times like he did against Ceglar and McEvoy.

I reckon the way Wilkie has played and the defensive work he is doing at the moment I reckon we can't afford to have him out of position. Anyhow, it is better imo to plan to bring in Longer to ruck for lengthy periods against similar types to himself and I'd prefer that Marshall stays in the team but only rucks verly limited minutes. We must plan our strategy so that we plan and manage whatappearstobe one of our most valuable assets for the time being. We must plan rather than wait for injuries.

Why would you say "Roma will get injured"? Would prefer you say that IF he gets injured because saying he will is a bit presumptuous

I am not sure what you are talking about.

Why would anyone want Marshall to ruck very limited minutes. He is AA material as a ruck.

Of course he is going to get hurt. That is the life of a ruck.

Especially with an undeveloped body for the job, don't waste your breath Shags, Scolly knows nothing about ruckwork of any substance or relevance!!!!!

[Scollop]

Righto. OK. You are right. He will get injured. May even break down for a long term exit from the game. Good plan

That's the masterplan from the mastercoach and his master supporters/experts-who-know-about-ruckwork who are backing in the plan by Cho

If you don't back in that plan you are not a 'true supporter'

Let's assume that this year with some fantastic hard work and unbelievable good luck that we are a chance to make finals. Let's assume that RoMa has been awesome up until round 15-16 and a huge part of the newfound on field success and then let's assume that due to no planning that he gets injured. Wouldn't it be wise to try and prevent that scenario?

Hey, here's a simpler question; Y'know when coaches and football departments talk about taking it one week at a time...do you actually believe that?

I mean a guy like Clarko talks to his players and tells them what to expect regarding team selection weeks in advance. He plans things meticulously when it comes to managing his best assets as the team approaches finals. Footy clubs and great teams don't win multiple premierships by chance.

We cannot play Marshall every week where he is the sole recognised ruckman picked in the team, and where he rucks for the most minutes or as long his lungs and tank will allow him and just wait until he gets injured...I sometimes don't know if we are discussing the same topic. Do you even know what this thread is about?

[Shaggy]

So we play Marshall every week and he is the sole recognised ruckman picked in the team, and he rucks for as many minutes as his lungs and tank will allow him and we just wait...until he gets injured

Righto. OK. You are right. He will get injured. May even break down for a long term exit from the game. Good plan

That's the masterplan from the mastercoach and his master supporters/experts-who-know-about-ruckwork are backing him in

If you don't back in that plan you are not a 'true supporter'

If you play football you will get injured.

I don't have a problem resting Marshall when he is sore. I am very happy for him to have weeks off during the season.

He is, as Stonecold says, immature for a ruck.

[Toy Saint]

Hate to say it out loud, but it would be good to still have Rhys Stanley. He would be an ideal partner for Rowan, both are capable forward and handy around the ground.

From memory we traded Stanley for a draft pick that became Goddard. In hindsight, that wasn't such a flash move.

[SuperDuper]

Loving the bold ploy of playing RoMa as the sole ruckman. He is now old enough bodywise to do that.

And Blake is old enough now bodywise to play his role, which is to take ruck contests that involve body on body rather than leaping into each other. These are clearly two different things and our coaches recognise that.

We may lose the odd hit out but we gain a lot... as evidenced by Blake and RoMa having such an influence on last weeks result

[barneyboyz]

Loving the bold ploy of playing RoMa as the sole ruckman. He is now old enough bodywise to do that.

And Blake is old enough now bodywise to play his role, which is to take ruck contests that involve body on body rather than leaping into each other. These are clearly two different things and our coaches recognise that.

We may lose the odd hit out but we gain a lot... as evidenced by Blake and RoMa having such an influence on last weeks result

Has brought / kept Blake in to the game for longer periods too, which has been an understated situation

[samoht]

I agree with previous posters - that injuries happen, and they are part of the game.
And you can't plan for them not happening (if that makes any sense).
Marshall is a big boy (probably weighs as much as Longer) .. and if he's an asset, you use that asset.
Was/is Grundy cotton-wooled?
I even agree with Acres helping out in the ruck (and Bruce of course). This is all the help that Marshall needs.

If Marshall is sore or fatigued at various stages of the season - then sure, manage and rest him.

[Scollop]

If Longer cannot break into the team based on good form, then according to your thinking we do not need him. Rowan is an asset in the ruck because of his clearance work, his contested marking, his ability to at least compete and neutralise a certain percentage of the contests and mostly because he works hard enough and is competent enough to take marks and kick clutch goals for his team. What makes you think Longer can do what Marshall can do?

According to your thinking and this philosophy of having only one recognised ruck, IF Rowan gets injured we should just name Bruce as the ruckman, get Wilkie and Acres and Battle to give Bruce relief and perhaps even Benny Long competes a few times like he did against Ceglar and McEvoy.

I reckon the way Wilkie has played and the defensive work he is doing at the moment I reckon we can't afford to have him out of position. Anyhow, it is better imo to plan to bring in Longer to ruck for lengthy periods against similar types to himself and I'd prefer that Marshall stays in the team but only rucks verly limited minutes. We must plan our strategy so that we plan and manage whatappearstobe one of our most valuable assets for the time being. We must plan rather than wait for injuries.

Why would you say "Roma will get injured"? Would prefer you say that IF he gets injured because saying he will is a bit presumptuous

I am not sure what you are talking about.

Why would anyone want Marshall to ruck very limited minutes. He is AA material as a ruck.

Of course he is going to get hurt. That is the life of a ruck.

I didn't mean play Marshall for limited minutes every week!! While he's going well, take advantage but plan and manage the long season ahead. When he is selected as the sole ruckman he gets maximium time.

When Longer or Pierce are called up for certain games where there is a lumbering opposition ruckman that they match up well with, then RoMa plays limited minutes as the bash and crash guy in those games

[The_President]

It’s just nice having a ruckman who is effective around the ground and helpful in general play. Someone who can tackle and kick and mark. Rare features for recent St.Kilda rucks

[realdeal]

It’s just nice having a ruckman who is effective around the ground and helpful in general play. Someone who can tackle and kick and mark. Rare features for recent St.Kilda rucks

Isn't it! Love it.

Interesting read here from 'The Mongrel Punt', has Marshall top 20 in AFL, and top 5 ruckman. Look who else is currently in the top 10 ruckman..

https://themongrelpunt.com/afl/2019/04/ ... rrankings1

[stonecold]

Interesting to see one of our own, Joey M tip Melbourne this week, reason: Max Gawn will dominant the ruck against the inexperienced and under developed Marshall!!!!!

So, which of you armchairs is going to argue with that?????

I'm sure you'll find your usual under educated excuses, however, I'm talking about factual reasons to prove a former St.Kilda champion and current employee in the AFL wrong!!!!!

Go luck with that one, as I have stated, Marshall is not there yet, will need help and we have to be managed!!!!!

[The_President]

Interesting to see one of our own, Joey M tip Melbourne this week, reason: Max Gawn will dominant the ruck against the inexperienced and under developed Marshall!!!!!

So, which of you armchairs is going to argue with that?????

I'm sure you'll find your usual under educated excuses, however, I'm talking about factual reasons to prove a former St.Kilda champion and current employee in the AFL wrong!!!!!

Go luck with that one, as I have stated, Marshall is not there yet, will need help and we have to be managed!!!!!

Well, of the three games that Marshall has played we’ve won the hitouts once - in the loss to Freo. We got absolutely smashed in hitouts against Essendon and Hawthorn but still managed to win.

Now I’m just spitballing here, but it might be thanks to the fact that we have a ruckman that can:
- Move around the ground
- Kick
- Mark
- Tackle
- Be used effectively in general play
- Hit the scoreboard
- Win contested possessions
- Win clearances

Again, just spitballing. But maybe playing 18 on 18 helps your chances of winning?

[takeaway]

Interesting to see one of our own, Joey M tip Melbourne this week, reason: Max Gawn will dominant the ruck against the inexperienced and under developed Marshall!!!!!

So, which of you armchairs is going to argue with that?????

I'm sure you'll find your usual under educated excuses, however, I'm talking about factual reasons to prove a former St.Kilda champion and current employee in the AFL wrong!!!!!

Go luck with that one, as I have stated, Marshall is not there yet, will need help and we have to be managed!!!!!

Well, of the three games that Marshall has played we’ve won the hitouts once - in the loss to Freo. We got absolutely smashed in hitouts against Essendon and Hawthorn but still managed to win.

Now I’m just spitballing here, but it might be thanks to the fact that we have a ruckman that can:
- Move around the ground
- Kick
- Mark
- Tackle
- Be used effectively in general play
- Hit the scoreboard
- Win contested possessions
- Win clearances

Again, just spitballing. But maybe playing 18 on 18 helps your chances of winning?

Just spitballing, but I think the next few weeks will tell. Depends more imo on the ability of the mids to negate our loss in hitouts, and even win the clearances despite the hit outs. Essendon were in poor form especially early in the match, our mids mostly weren't on song vs Freo, and we beat a very inexperienced midfield vs Hawks. Gawn, an excellent tap ruckman, and the Melb mids will be a real test, and later teams like Pies. Might not be an issue because they may even bring Longer in.

[The_President]

Interesting to see one of our own, Joey M tip Melbourne this week, reason: Max Gawn will dominant the ruck against the inexperienced and under developed Marshall!!!!!

So, which of you armchairs is going to argue with that?????

I'm sure you'll find your usual under educated excuses, however, I'm talking about factual reasons to prove a former St.Kilda champion and current employee in the AFL wrong!!!!!

Go luck with that one, as I have stated, Marshall is not there yet, will need help and we have to be managed!!!!!

Well, of the three games that Marshall has played we’ve won the hitouts once - in the loss to Freo. We got absolutely smashed in hitouts against Essendon and Hawthorn but still managed to win.

Now I’m just spitballing here, but it might be thanks to the fact that we have a ruckman that can:
- Move around the ground
- Kick
- Mark
- Tackle
- Be used effectively in general play
- Hit the scoreboard
- Win contested possessions
- Win clearances

Again, just spitballing. But maybe playing 18 on 18 helps your chances of winning?

Just spitballing, but I think the next few weeks will tell. Depends more imo on the ability of the mids to negate our loss in hitouts, and even win the clearances despite the hit outs. Essendon were in poor form especially early in the match, our mids mostly weren't on song vs Freo, and we beat a very inexperienced midfield vs Hawks. Gawn, an excellent tap ruckman, and the Melb mids will be a real test, and later teams like Pies. Might not be an issue because they may even bring Longer in.

Our whole game plan is built on team defence. Everyone working as one to plug the space and not let them out. Only takes one weak link for the chain to break. Longer is terrible at football. Sure he can tap the ball, but other than that, he is useless.

[takeaway]

Interesting to see one of our own, Joey M tip Melbourne this week, reason: Max Gawn will dominant the ruck against the inexperienced and under developed Marshall!!!!!

So, which of you armchairs is going to argue with that?????

I'm sure you'll find your usual under educated excuses, however, I'm talking about factual reasons to prove a former St.Kilda champion and current employee in the AFL wrong!!!!!

Go luck with that one, as I have stated, Marshall is not there yet, will need help and we have to be managed!!!!!

Well, of the three games that Marshall has played we’ve won the hitouts once - in the loss to Freo. We got absolutely smashed in hitouts against Essendon and Hawthorn but still managed to win.

Now I’m just spitballing here, but it might be thanks to the fact that we have a ruckman that can:
- Move around the ground
- Kick
- Mark
- Tackle
- Be used effectively in general play
- Hit the scoreboard
- Win contested possessions
- Win clearances

Again, just spitballing. But maybe playing 18 on 18 helps your chances of winning?

Just spitballing, but I think the next few weeks will tell. Depends more imo on the ability of the mids to negate our loss in hitouts, and even win the clearances despite the hit outs. Essendon were in poor form especially early in the match, our mids mostly weren't on song vs Freo, and we beat a very inexperienced midfield vs Hawks. Gawn, an excellent tap ruckman, and the Melb mids will be a real test, and later teams like Pies. Might not be an issue because they may even bring Longer in.

Our whole game plan is built on team defence. Everyone working as one to plug the space and not let them out. Only takes one weak link for the chain to break. Longer is terrible at football. Sure he can tap the ball, but other than that, he is useless.

That's the simple team plan that is illustrated in the front foyer of AFL HQ. All teams use it. I think the club has a different view to you re Longer, we may see in the next few weeks. If not, Marshall has done very well, and substantially improved his hit out efficiency. At the moment, that is his weak link.