What about the Ruck?

[skeptic]

The debate continues...

Max Gawn - 20d, 9 kicks, 11 handballs, 4 marks, 2 tackles, 1 behind and 32 hit outs
Preuss - 15d, 10 kicks, 5 handballs, 3 marks, 2 tackles, 2 goals and 16 hit outs

Marshall - 13d, 5 kicks, 8 handballs, 2 marks, 2 tackles, 13 hit outs

Safe to say that Marshall was beaten today by 2 very seasoned rucks... not disgraced by any means because it was always an incredibly tall order (haha) for him.

I still think he needs help... this is the type of thing I’d like to protect him from a little. It appears that neither Longer or Pierce are getting to the standard we’d hope any time soon.

Do we ask the kid to ride it alone all season and then make getting a decent back up a priority or is one of the others worth a shot?

[Trev from the Bush]

So, what about it? We went into the match knowing who was paying on who, planned for it .......... and won by 40 points.

[Enrico_Misso]

We won the clearances.

[ausfatcat]

In those stats keep in mind a large chunk weren't of them when Marshal wasn't playing on them... but yes he got beaten still has a lot of improvement in him thou.

[realdeal]

In those stats keep in mind a large chunk weren't of them when Marshal wasn't playing on them... but yes he got beaten still has a lot of improvement in him thou.

Exactly..
Marshall didn't play on both of them at the same time...

Can we get some more detail analysis please, like who was on who when disposals were gathered.

[skeptic]

Not knocking Marshall but surely a similar differential against a quality midfield won’t hold up

[saintsRrising]

We won in large part as we were quicker and more mobile that the Dees.

Yes you could have played Longer and yes HOs I am sure then would nit have been as one sided. But, we would then have significantly slower and 1 man down at many contests.

So instead of thinking of it as Gawn and Preus vs Marshall, think of it instead as Gawn and Preus vs Marshall and Acres.

That then gives you a much better comparison.

[Enrico_Misso]

Not knocking Marshall but surely a similar differential against a quality midfield won’t hold up

Would have thought Oliver/Jones/Harmes/Viney/Lewis/Brayshaw/Petracca isn't a bad unit to rotate through the midfield?

But
despite losing the hitouts 16-49 our mids won the clearances 34-31.

Fantastic effort!

[SuperDuper]

2 weeks in a row we went in with 1 ruck against 2 genuine and high quality rucks.
Both weeks we won the game

What is telling IMO is that Clarkson/Hawks selectors dropped Ceglar this week and will play just 1 genuine Ruck
Today we gave up a couple of goals to Preuss but we also one the ground ball time after time in back half, and beat them on the spread.

[fugazi]

We just ruck to the opposition tap and back our numbers to contests.
Marshall works hard to minimize taps to advantage.
Working ok at the minute.

[Scollop]

What is telling IMO is that Clarkson/Hawks selectors dropped Ceglar this week and will play just 1 genuine Ruck

Possibly. Let's see if it becomes a regular thing or just a once off to teach him a lesson.

Ceglar was dropped imo because he fumbled on a few occasions when his side needed clean possessions and he got out marked or spoiled by opposition that was six inches shorter than him

Same with Preuss and Gawn. You wouldn't drop Gawn and I think Preuss also did enough to keep his spot.

If Adelaide play their big young lanky plodder bloke as well as Sauce Jacobs then Longer might be ok to match up with their dinosaur. Same with GWS and other teams if they play a plodder and a second ruckman we should bring in Longer if he works hard and gets superfit.

More than anything else, I think it would be benefecial for Marshalls longevity as he gets a bit battered and bruised

[Joffa Burns]

It’s pretty clear Marshall’s job is to negate the influence of the other ruck at Centre bounce and ball ups then try to do damage as a mobile tall mid.

The Saints will concede the hit outs if necessary as they like an extra runner as opposed to a lumbering ruck who adds little around the ground.

Amazing Marshall wasn’t picked round one.

[bigcarl]

My biggest concern is the possible long term confidence damage it could be doing to Marshall. Don't get me wrong - he's a great talented kid, but too small to play against 'Monsters' in the ruck. However, what I saw today was that he nullified both Gawn and Preuss in the Ruck - lost the hitouts big, but how many hitouts to advantage??? I go back as far as a Jeff Sarau, or Alan Morrow. Needs help, but can't be dropped, My thought is possibly Battle - two kids who are talented, and play hard. Maybe, when we Carlisle back...

Maybe Carlisle shares ruck duties. That would give us one of the best ruck divisions in the comp.

I reckon Battle is going okay where he is

[The Craw]

I would stick with the 1 ruck and pinch hitter game plan. It is working at the moment.

Let the other teams plan to negate our set up. If they want to play 2 plodders then go right ahead, but as it stands at the moment they will be playing a man down.

I would say that a bit more planning will be put into team selection against the saints going forward after the performance they put in against Melbourne.

[kosifantutti]

Not knocking Marshall but surely a similar differential against a quality midfield won’t hold up

People have been saying all week that this is the first quality midfield we would play. Oliver AA last year and Brayshaw third in Brownlow

[saintspremiers]

My biggest concern is the possible long term confidence damage it could be doing to Marshall. Don't get me wrong - he's a great talented kid, but too small to play against 'Monsters' in the ruck. However, what I saw today was that he nullified both Gawn and Preuss in the Ruck - lost the hitouts big, but how many hitouts to advantage??? I go back as far as a Jeff Sarau, or Alan Morrow. Needs help, but can't be dropped, My thought is possibly Battle - two kids who are talented, and play hard. Maybe, when we Carlisle back...

Billy Slater has developed the sort of self belief in our players to an extent we have never seen before. So
much of footy is above the shoulders. If you think hard enough you can you will.

[Sainter_Dad]

My biggest concern is the possible long term confidence damage it could be doing to Marshall. Don't get me wrong - he's a great talented kid, but too small to play against 'Monsters' in the ruck. However, what I saw today was that he nullified both Gawn and Preuss in the Ruck - lost the hitouts big, but how many hitouts to advantage??? I go back as far as a Jeff Sarau, or Alan Morrow. Needs help, but can't be dropped, My thought is possibly Battle - two kids who are talented, and play hard. Maybe, when we Carlisle back...

When Marshall was being interviewed as he came off against the Hawks he said that the game plan was he just compete and when the ball hits the ground he plays as an extra mid - he knows his role - he knows he is not expected to monster the taps - his confidence won't be rocked by losing the hit-outs - We have a plan for this kid and he is growing in stature - won't be long before teams are planning to negate HIS influence

[Sainter_Dad]

Today we gave up a couple of goals to Preuss but we also one the ground ball time after time in back half, and beat them on the spread.

The first one from Pruess was a chaos ball that just landed in his lap - the second, I think I recall, was a long bomb from outside 50. I will take that from Pruess any week - he can be damaging - can also be a spud tough!

And Max Gawn - 1 point

[skeptic]

I would say that their mid field hasn’t played like an elite one so far this season

[ace]

As a young teenager, I learnt something in early October 1966.
There is only one statistic that matters - which team scored the most points in the grand final.
All other statistics are insignificant.

[ace]

Today we gave up a couple of goals to Preuss but we also one the ground ball time after time in back half, and beat them on the spread.

The first one from Pruess was a chaos ball that just landed in his lap - the second, I think I recall, was a long bomb from outside 50. I will take that from Pruess any week - he can be damaging - can also be a spud tough!

And Max Gawn - 1 point

That first goal to Pruess was completely uncontested.
Battle was caught napping.
He was fast asleep.
But Battle woke up and played well after that.

[The_Dud]

It looks like we’re going down the road of not really valuing winning ruck contests, at times yesterday we didn’t even send someone up.

It’s working so far, but I’m sure it will backfire in a few games this year.

[samoht]

Summary...
Hitouts/schmitouts.
We won the clearances and they had one less runner or one more plodder (whichever way you want to look at it).

[Vazelos]

Long term there will be no problem Jake Carlisle will be Back and Max King a 202 Cm rolls Royce will be in our team.
Longer will be delisted and Pierce will be Back up. Acres can pinch hit like he has we don’t need a lumbering 2 nd Ruckman.

[takeaway]

It looks like we’re going down the road of not really valuing winning ruck contests, at times yesterday we didn’t even send someone up.

It’s working so far, but I’m sure it will backfire in a few games this year.

I think you are right Dud. Teams will be looking much closer at us now, we are becoming the hunted. If the mids can continue to win the clearances from a losing ruck all year, I will be very surprised.