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B.M wrote: ↑Mon 08 Jul 2019 12:42am
I’d like to know if anyone actually thought we’d play finals?
We won 4 games last year, what exactly was going to see us win another 8/9 games this year?
IMO the biggest argument to sack Richo last year.
The expectation to take a team from 14th that seriously underperformed to a finals win is just not reasonable. Nothing against Richo but blind Freddie could see that he needed to turnover the list a little and reload.
This season needed to prioritise youth and development
Instead we’ve had a year centred on short term goals and it’s showed... again not Richo’s fault as we put him in a perform or die situation
B.M wrote: ↑Mon 08 Jul 2019 12:42am
I’d like to know if anyone actually thought we’d play finals?
We won 4 games last year, what exactly was going to see us win another 8/9 games this year?
With all due respect, this is the wrong question to ask.
In July 2017 when we were 6th on the ladder after flogging Richmond did anyone think we would struggle for the remainder of 2017, win 4 games in 2018, followed by 6-8 in 2019?
The coach isn’t paying for this year, he’s paying for the previous 24 months. He’s paying for his inability to develop a competitive list of players, leaders within the group & succession plan post the retirements of Riewoldt & Montagna.
tony74 wrote: ↑Sun 07 Jul 2019 11:16pm
He knows, the players know, you know.
Yes but while we all know she will sing, she is yet to sing.
Wonderful insight by that ITK.
Whether AR goes in 2 weeks or after Rd 23,
the janitor will say 'I told youse'
We know it's imminent.
We KNOW.
Lethers said beat teams above us or else.
We know we can't, and we'll struggle against Carlscum with their new coach.
I was not having a go at Tony. It was more my frustration that due the contract extension and finals clause that Finnis and Winters entered into when there was no need has meant that Richo staying needs to be drawn out unless Richo walks.
Their ineptness is why we are where we are at.
Flying the World in comfort thanks to FF Points....
If next Saturday night is the massacre that it appears set to be then the call will finally be made on the following Monday, but if we are competitive it wouldn't surprise me if he clings on for another week.
After all, the Dees will be easier pickings for a new coach to take on than the Dogs, who have really found their mojo in the past fortnight, albeit a bit too late to seriously contend.
I don't think the Dogs game is winnable now, whoever coaches us, but the Dees, Dockers and Blues games sure are.
That would give us 9 wins, which is more than Richo is capable of.
Who knows, we might even be competitive against our nemesis sides, the Crows and Swans under a new coach.
its time to make a name for yourself like you've never made before!
tony74 wrote: ↑Sun 07 Jul 2019 11:16pm
He knows, the players know, you know.
Yes but while we all know she will sing, she is yet to sing.
Wonderful insight by that ITK.
Whether AR goes in 2 weeks or after Rd 23,
the janitor will say 'I told youse'
We know it's imminent.
We KNOW.
Lethers said beat teams above us or else.
We know we can't, and we'll struggle against Carlscum with their new coach.
I was not having a go at Tony. It was more my frustration that due the contract extension and finals clause that Finnis and Winters entered into when there was no need has meant that Richo staying needs to be drawn out unless Richo walks.
Their ineptness is why we are where we are at.
When Winters stepped down last year and did his farewell speech at the club AGM it disturbed me how well he was liked.
The fans that travelled a lot interstate loved him cause he always took time to speak to them and go to club functions.
Sorry for me a prez is about getting results first and foremost.
Same with our CHOch, who is supposedly a nice guy also.
I’ve had the chance a few times to meet Richo, but have zero interest and I’ve actively avoided it.
When we get a new coach that will probably change.
Anybody/everybody calling for the Coach to be sacked now needs to declare if they're prepared to dip into their own pockets and contribute to the 'payout' such a sacking will inevitably bring.
As I understand it, Richo has a clause in his contract which states if we win a final he can 'trigger' an extension in 2020.
If we 'sack' him before the possibility that we can make the finals is exhausted then there will be lawyers lining up (and the Coaches Association) to sue us for what he is rightly contracted for.
Should Richo choose to resign (and why should he?) then this clause wouldn't come into effect.
We need patience until this plays out legally/contractually.
Mr Magic wrote: ↑Mon 08 Jul 2019 9:35am
Anybody/everybody calling for the Coach to be sacked now needs to declare if they're prepared to dip into their own pockets and contribute to the 'payout' such a sacking will inevitably bring.
As I understand it, Richo has a clause in his contract which states if we win a final he can 'trigger' an extension in 2020.
If we 'sack' him before the possibility that we can make the finals is exhausted then there will be lawyers lining up (and the Coaches Association) to sue us for what he is rightly contracted for.
Should Richo choose to resign (and why should he?) then this clause wouldn't come into effect.
We need patience until this plays out legally/contractually.
Mr Magic wrote: ↑Mon 08 Jul 2019 9:35am
Anybody/everybody calling for the Coach to be sacked now needs to declare if they're prepared to dip into their own pockets and contribute to the 'payout' such a sacking will inevitably bring.
As I understand it, Richo has a clause in his contract which states if we win a final he can 'trigger' an extension in 2020.
If we 'sack' him before the possibility that we can make the finals is exhausted then there will be lawyers lining up (and the Coaches Association) to sue us for what he is rightly contracted for.
Should Richo choose to resign (and why should he?) then this clause wouldn't come into effect.
We need patience until this plays out legally/contractually.
Don’t be surprised if we don’t have to pay out a full year. That seems to be an assumption everyone has leapt on and I’m not sure it’s right. Much will depend upon the precise terms of the contract of course and the club will be doing its due diligence.
I think it was reasonably clear that SL didnt expect Richo to coach in 2020 unless there was a major turnaround. Pretty clear that the option to sack the coach would have been financially reckless for a club in our position.
So far I believe they had the done everything right since SL came on board, and it's also true that what they are planning behind closed doors has not been communicated to the press which is also how it should be done .
So at this stage, basset and SL have my confidence, although what happens over the next 6 months is crucial.
Regarding the coach, I am sure he has given the club everything he has, and I hope the club and supporters treat him with some dignity and respect. If he wasnt good enough then he wasnt good enough. It happens to everyone whether in sport or business at some point.
I think what we do, including coach and player changes in the next 6 months, will define the StKFC
So we have status quo for July, at least. Then the season is quickly over. And that was 2019. Prudent caution - grim faced, no comment. Also duplicity perhaps, if SL didn't really think AR was the man as early as 2018. He would want to be careful with our affections for 2020 because another fail could be catastrophic. (I put the Hannebery decision out of my mind, faith in Simon and remind myself its our time for dumb luck to kick in).
My biggest frustration about this year is from the people who try to defend Richo and point to the win/loss ratio. It's conceded that we have the easiest draw in the competition. Yeah we started off the year really promisingly. But after Rd 6 we have reverted to the same rubbish as last year and the win/loss ratio is purely a mirage. So are a couple of cheap wins at the end of the year against fellow cellar dwellers.
Have a look at the manner of our wins. We fell over the line against a pathetic GC and weren't much better against Carlton. We still can't score anything significant. Bruce kicked 6 yesterday and we still only managed 70 odd points. Our defense on transition is woeful. Opposition teams cut us to ribbons running fwds once the game is broken open.
Yeah we've had injuries and it has definitely affected us. But the manner in which we have lost tells us plenty. We lose every game by 40 + points. It's embarrassing. We are MILES away from even competing for the top 8 let alone the top 4 let alone a flag. f***** depressing.
Not so much duplicity, but the facts were that richo was the coach for 2019, if only due to prior contractual decisions. so let's get on with it, put the best team in place around him and give it a crack. Results have fallen short of minimum standards, the contractual position will soon not be a factor and we are free to take another path.
If we want to attract good people to the club, we have to behave in a reasonable and measured way. The traditional saints public executions would not have held us in a good light in the wider footy community. So whilst it may not be the quick gratification many sort, I think it will prove a better outcome for sustained success
Crossy66 wrote: ↑Mon 08 Jul 2019 11:39am
Not so much duplicity, but the facts were that richo was the coach for 2019, if only due to prior contractual decisions. so let's get on with it, put the best team in place around him and give it a crack. Results have fallen short of minimum standards, the contractual position will soon not be a factor and we are free to take another path.
If we want to attract good people to the club, we have to behave in a reasonable and measured way. The traditional saints public executions would not have held us in a good light in the wider footy community. So whilst it may not be the quick gratification many sort, I think it will prove a better outcome for sustained success
There is actually a lot of validity to this post. Whilst I am as desperate as anyone to see Cho exit the building, we need to conduct ourselves, as a club, in a professional manner. Despite our disappointment at a wasted year, we can still retain our integrity (or what remains of it). This will no doubt position us better with regards to future coaching and playing prospects that may be trying to decide whether or not to join our club.
Last edited by Dis Believer on Mon 08 Jul 2019 12:58pm, edited 1 time in total.
The heavy metal artist formerly known as True Believer!
IF you look around the room and can't identify who the sucker is, then it's probably you!
We put people around Richo to help him and us win more games this year like they did at Geelong for Thomson, Richmond for Hardwick and Collingwood for Buckley.
My question is how did these teams go the next season after this support around the coaches and where do we measure in that regard?
As ex-president Peter Summers said:
“If we are going to be a contender, we may as well plan to win the bloody thing.”
Mr Magic wrote: ↑Mon 08 Jul 2019 9:35am
Anybody/everybody calling for the Coach to be sacked now needs to declare if they're prepared to dip into their own pockets and contribute to the 'payout' such a sacking will inevitably bring.
As I understand it, Richo has a clause in his contract which states if we win a final he can 'trigger' an extension in 2020.
If we 'sack' him before the possibility that we can make the finals is exhausted then there will be lawyers lining up (and the Coaches Association) to sue us for what he is rightly contracted for.
Should Richo choose to resign (and why should he?) then this clause wouldn't come into effect.
We need patience until this plays out legally/contractually.
Everyone keeps harping on about what a terrific bloke Alan is. You ask the question; why should he choose to resign? I think anyone who wants to act in the long term interests of our club should be very close to making that decision.
Toss Lyon left a stench and holes every where in our list but at least we were aiming for the ultimate at that time. GT left a stench as far as a financial burden on the club but at least he left a legacy of bonding a young group of men that went on to aim for the ultimate
I think if he was to put the club first he would have walked late last year. I think he is being selfish and this period in our history will leave a sour taste in our mouths and a stench that may last for many years after Richo departs.
Is he really that nice of a guy if we struggle to compete as a footy club and we miss finals for the next five years? Is he really that nice of a guy if he has been the major impedement to star players wanting to come to us?
HighettMan started a thread about Richo, implying that he will walk before the end of this year. Here's hoping it happens after we lose to Geelong
Mr Magic wrote: ↑Mon 08 Jul 2019 9:35am
Anybody/everybody calling for the Coach to be sacked now needs to declare if they're prepared to dip into their own pockets and contribute to the 'payout' such a sacking will inevitably bring.
As I understand it, Richo has a clause in his contract which states if we win a final he can 'trigger' an extension in 2020.
If we 'sack' him before the possibility that we can make the finals is exhausted then there will be lawyers lining up (and the Coaches Association) to sue us for what he is rightly contracted for.
Should Richo choose to resign (and why should he?) then this clause wouldn't come into effect.
We need patience until this plays out legally/contractually.
Everyone keeps harping on about what a terrific bloke Alan is. You ask the question; why should he choose to resign? I think anyone who wants to act in the long term interests of our club should be very close to making that decision.
Toss Lyon left a stench and holes every where in our list but at least we were aiming for the ultimate at that time. GT left a stench as far as a financial burden on the club but at least he left a legacy of bonding a young group of men that went on to aim for the ultimate
I think if he was to put the club first he would have walked late last year. I think he is being selfish and this period in our history will leave a sour taste in our mouths and a stench that may last for many years after Richo departs.
Is he really that nice of a guy if we struggle to compete as a footy club and we miss finals for the next five years? Is he really that nice of a guy if he has been the major impedement to star players wanting to come to us?
HighettMan started a thread about Richo, implying that he will walk before the end of this year. Here's hoping it happens after we lose to Geelong
Oh come on, would you walk away from a half a million a year job just to look after your employer?!
Seriously- why would anyone do that with a guaranteed year (2019) left plus the possibility of another year??
Do you think his earning capacity post us is going to be within cooee of what he’s currently on?
The man has a family. Let’s not forget that.
Don’t get me wrong I would’ve loved him to walk at the end of 2018, but it was never going to occur
Crossy66 wrote: ↑Mon 08 Jul 2019 11:39am
Not so much duplicity, but the facts were that richo was the coach for 2019, if only due to prior contractual decisions. so let's get on with it, put the best team in place around him and give it a crack. Results have fallen short of minimum standards, the contractual position will soon not be a factor and we are free to take another path.
If we want to attract good people to the club, we have to behave in a reasonable and measured way. The traditional saints public executions would not have held us in a good light in the wider footy community. So whilst it may not be the quick gratification many sort, I think it will prove a better outcome for sustained success
There is actually a lot of validity to this post. Whilst I am as desperate as anyone to see Cho exit the building, we need to conduct ourselves, as a club, in a professional manner. Despite our disappointment at a wasted year, we can still retain our integrity (or what remains of it). This will no doubt position us better with regards to future coaching and playing prospects that may be trying to decide whether or not to join our club.
Yes very smart thinking. But man, they make it hard for us dont they.
HardSaint wrote: ↑Sun 07 Jul 2019 11:59pm
too much tip toeing for my liking
Sure. I get that. But it's about money. Let's not kid ourselves here. Until he's unable to make a final; let alone win one .... there's a payout.
As much as I hate waiting for the inevitable (and I can't wait for it to finally happen) ... what exactly does punting him now do? I can understand when North/Carlton shot theirs - it's gave the interim 12 weeks to audition. What does 6 or so weeks get us with a caretaker?
Clear air - yes. But not much else.
We all know that come start of pre-season, there's not a hope in hell that Cho will be blowing his whistle in the middle of Moorabbin. The whole industry knows it - we just become another club that needs to run a process to fill a vacancy.
PS - Spare a thought for the Bummers ... their support detest Worsfold more than Cho is by the St K faithful - and he's started winning which makes it harder for them to punt him. At least Cho's not acheived that.
HardSaint wrote: ↑Sun 07 Jul 2019 11:59pm
too much tip toeing for my liking
Sure. I get that. But it's about money. Let's not kid ourselves here. Until he's unable to make a final; let alone win one .... there's a payout.
As much as I hate waiting for the inevitable (and I can't wait for it to finally happen) ... what exactly does punting him now do? I can understand when North/Carlton shot theirs - it's gave the interim 12 weeks to audition. What does 6 or so weeks get us with a caretaker?
Clear air - yes. But not much else.
We all know that come start of pre-season, there's not a hope in hell that Cho will be blowing his whistle in the middle of Moorabbin. The whole industry knows it - we just become another club that needs to run a process to fill a vacancy.
PS - Spare a thought for the Bummers ... their support detest Worsfold more than Cho is by the St K faithful - and he's started winning which makes it harder for them to punt him. At least Cho's not acheived that.
Thats cool, I get all that
my response was more in reply to the Tiny Tim comment before
Crossy66 wrote: ↑Mon 08 Jul 2019 11:39am
Not so much duplicity, but the facts were that richo was the coach for 2019, if only due to prior contractual decisions. so let's get on with it, put the best team in place around him and give it a crack. Results have fallen short of minimum standards, the contractual position will soon not be a factor and we are free to take another path.
If we want to attract good people to the club, we have to behave in a reasonable and measured way. The traditional saints public executions would not have held us in a good light in the wider footy community. So whilst it may not be the quick gratification many sort, I think it will prove a better outcome for sustained success
There is actually a lot of validity to this post. Whilst I am as desperate as anyone to see Cho exit the building, we need to conduct ourselves, as a club, in a professional manner. Despite our disappointment at a wasted year, we can still retain our integrity (or what remains of it). This will no doubt position us better with regards to future coaching and playing prospects that may be trying to decide whether or not to join our club.
The counter to this line of thinking is that Carlton and North Melbourne have become SIGNIFICANTLY more attractive since both their coaches departed and are more likely to attract players (and the right person as coach) based on the optimism and improvement that both have shown.
We will never beat the Cats so there's no point bringing the axe down this week but if we did it next week and gave Ratten or Lade half a dozen games in charge, surely it could do nothing except help our prospects for 2020.
