Marshall. Ruckman, forward or a bit of both?

This unofficial St Kilda Saints fan forum is for people of all ages to chat Saints Footy and all posts must be respectful.

Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators

Post Reply
bigcarl
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 18635
Joined: Thu 11 Mar 2004 1:36am
Has thanked: 1979 times
Been thanked: 865 times

Marshall. Ruckman, forward or a bit of both?

Post: # 1839939Post bigcarl »

Now we have Ryder/Abbott, it potentially allows Marshall to spend more time forward.

Marshall seems to be a good footballer wherever you put him. He was recruited as a forward. Significantly he kicked two goals - when we needed them - to effectively kill off the Hawks last night (albeit in a practice game).

I don’t mind the idea of him spending half his time forward. He, Membrey and King (eventually) ought to be a test for most opponents, given decent supply.

Thoughts?


User avatar
shrodes
SS Life Member
Posts: 3091
Joined: Tue 12 Aug 2014 2:34pm
Location: Melbourne
Has thanked: 791 times
Been thanked: 436 times

Re: Marshall. Ruckman, forward or a bit of both?

Post: # 1839941Post shrodes »

That seems to be the plan.

I can see them doing a Ryder/Marshall combo a lot, and giving Ryder some weeks off for an old man rest where Abbott can come in and fill that spot or just go solo Marshall like last year.
Marshall is a very good mark and kick for his size and is a genuine presence in the forward line (unlike Longer and to a lesser extent Hickey in prior years), and Ryder has done the same before also.


shmic_s
Club Player
Posts: 966
Joined: Tue 03 Feb 2009 4:25pm
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: Marshall. Ruckman, forward or a bit of both?

Post: # 1839947Post shmic_s »

Bit of both.

When we drafted Marshall, think he was profiled as a defender.
First couple of games played as a key forward and remember big marks and long kicking.

Obviously exploded when playing ruck. He's smart, agile, can take a mark and a good set shot.
I view him as a ruck who will rest forward. Want him involved in as much play as possible, but think he would be a good key forward if required.
Ryder to play key forward, ruck relief for 2 years until King has increased his strength.

Will be interesting to see where Abbott fits, did well in the ruck contests last night.
Last edited by shmic_s on Fri 21 Feb 2020 1:18pm, edited 1 time in total.


saynta
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 23139
Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 3:53pm
Has thanked: 9080 times
Been thanked: 3942 times

Re: Marshall. Ruckman, forward or a bit of both?

Post: # 1839949Post saynta »

What ever he is, he's f****** good.


User avatar
The Fireman
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 13311
Joined: Mon 08 Mar 2004 11:54pm
Has thanked: 669 times
Been thanked: 1957 times

Re: Marshall. Ruckman, forward or a bit of both?

Post: # 1839957Post The Fireman »

we have a dilemma...... it's called a bevy of riches.


User avatar
skeptic
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 17028
Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 7:10pm
Has thanked: 3647 times
Been thanked: 2918 times

Re: Marshall. Ruckman, forward or a bit of both?

Post: # 1839967Post skeptic »

bigcarl wrote: Fri 21 Feb 2020 12:08pm Now we have Ryder/Abbott, it potentially allows Marshall to spend more time forward.

Marshall seems to be a good footballer wherever you put him. He was recruited as a forward. Significantly he kicked two goals - when we needed them - to effectively kill off the Hawks last night (albeit in a practice game).

I don’t mind the idea of him spending half his time forward. He, Membrey and King (eventually) ought to be a test for most opponents, given decent supply.

Thoughts?
Careful BC, I made this suggestion a year ago and still occasionally get slapped by my stalker for it


User avatar
desertsaint
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 10427
Joined: Sun 27 Apr 2008 2:02pm
Location: out there
Has thanked: 190 times
Been thanked: 713 times

Re: Marshall. Ruckman, forward or a bit of both?

Post: # 1839971Post desertsaint »

He's going to be a champion ruck who's also going to be very, very handy when rested forward.
But a ruck!


"The starting point of all achievement is desire. "
Saintmatt
SS Life Member
Posts: 2592
Joined: Fri 20 Jan 2012 4:57pm
Has thanked: 2043 times
Been thanked: 1163 times

Re: Marshall. Ruckman, forward or a bit of both?

Post: # 1839972Post Saintmatt »

Both. But also remember - RoMa has exceptional/freak qualities below his knees. His last goal at the southern was a true Kevin Bartlett front n square rovers goal. He's not Grundy nor Gawn - both are phenomenal - but he has something that both of them don't have - he's shown he can crumb a goal like a rover. A 6'7" rover. After having clunked contested pack marks on the wing 5 mins before. Let that sink in.

He's actually a revolutionary player.

And again - well done Cho for picking Pierce in R1 last year.


Go you red, black & white warriors
User avatar
Sainter_Dad
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 6339
Joined: Thu 05 Jun 2008 1:04pm
Has thanked: 263 times
Been thanked: 1124 times

Re: Marshall. Ruckman, forward or a bit of both?

Post: # 1839983Post Sainter_Dad »

Where ever he wants to play - just lock him away as R,W&B


“Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but stupid lasts forever.”

― Aristophanes

If you have a Bee in your Bonnet - I can assist you with that - but it WILL involve some smacking upside the head!
saynta
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 23139
Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 3:53pm
Has thanked: 9080 times
Been thanked: 3942 times

Re: Marshall. Ruckman, forward or a bit of both?

Post: # 1839984Post saynta »

Sainter_Dad wrote: Fri 21 Feb 2020 5:04pm Midfielder for mine - the old style Ruck Rover!
They had Battle playing that role at times last night


User avatar
Sainter_Dad
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 6339
Joined: Thu 05 Jun 2008 1:04pm
Has thanked: 263 times
Been thanked: 1124 times

Re: Marshall. Ruckman, forward or a bit of both?

Post: # 1839985Post Sainter_Dad »

saynta wrote: Fri 21 Feb 2020 5:06pm
Sainter_Dad wrote: Fri 21 Feb 2020 5:04pm Midfielder for mine - the old style Ruck Rover!
They had Battle playing that role at times last night
I edited my post as the old style Ruck Rover was effectively a Tagger - and RoMa is so much more than that!


“Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but stupid lasts forever.”

― Aristophanes

If you have a Bee in your Bonnet - I can assist you with that - but it WILL involve some smacking upside the head!
User avatar
Sainter_Dad
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 6339
Joined: Thu 05 Jun 2008 1:04pm
Has thanked: 263 times
Been thanked: 1124 times

Re: Marshall. Ruckman, forward or a bit of both?

Post: # 1839986Post Sainter_Dad »

saynta wrote: Fri 21 Feb 2020 5:06pm
Sainter_Dad wrote: Fri 21 Feb 2020 5:04pm Midfielder for mine - the old style Ruck Rover!
They had Battle playing that role at times last night
I edited my post as the old style Ruck Rover was effectively a Tagger - and RoMa is so much more than that!


“Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but stupid lasts forever.”

― Aristophanes

If you have a Bee in your Bonnet - I can assist you with that - but it WILL involve some smacking upside the head!
saynta
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 23139
Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 3:53pm
Has thanked: 9080 times
Been thanked: 3942 times

Re: Marshall. Ruckman, forward or a bit of both?

Post: # 1839989Post saynta »

Sainter_Dad wrote: Fri 21 Feb 2020 5:08pm
saynta wrote: Fri 21 Feb 2020 5:06pm
Sainter_Dad wrote: Fri 21 Feb 2020 5:04pm Midfielder for mine - the old style Ruck Rover!
They had Battle playing that role at times last night
I edited my post as the old style Ruck Rover was effectively a Tagger - and RoMa is so much more than that!
Barrassi would be pissed off reading your post. :wink:

Also we had a couple of very good ruck rovers, neither of whom were taggers. Travis Payze and Barry Pascoe


User avatar
Sainter_Dad
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 6339
Joined: Thu 05 Jun 2008 1:04pm
Has thanked: 263 times
Been thanked: 1124 times

Re: Marshall. Ruckman, forward or a bit of both?

Post: # 1839993Post Sainter_Dad »

saynta wrote: Fri 21 Feb 2020 5:18pm
Sainter_Dad wrote: Fri 21 Feb 2020 5:08pm
saynta wrote: Fri 21 Feb 2020 5:06pm
Sainter_Dad wrote: Fri 21 Feb 2020 5:04pm Midfielder for mine - the old style Ruck Rover!
They had Battle playing that role at times last night
I edited my post as the old style Ruck Rover was effectively a Tagger - and RoMa is so much more than that!
Barrassi would be pissed off reading your post. :wink:

Also we had a couple of very good ruck rovers, neither of whom were taggers. Travis Payze and Barry Pascoe
Wikipedia wrote:
Ruck rover
Before the 1950s, the role of the ruck-rover was known as the follower. His role was to assist the ruckman and rover at centre bounces by blocking and shepherding them from opposition players.[3] This position disappeared in the 1950s with the success of Ron Barassi, Jr. in a role designated for him by Melbourne coach Norm Smith.[3] The closest equivalent of the follower position in today's game is known as a tagger.[3]


“Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but stupid lasts forever.”

― Aristophanes

If you have a Bee in your Bonnet - I can assist you with that - but it WILL involve some smacking upside the head!
To the top
SS Life Member
Posts: 3266
Joined: Fri 16 Mar 2007 4:05pm
Been thanked: 390 times

Re: Marshall. Ruckman, forward or a bit of both?

Post: # 1840013Post To the top »

Marshall is an extraordinary footballer

His skill set is amazing especially for a player of his size

I would play him forward - with Membrey and King which trio will test opposition defences - before the ball hits the ground, if it does

With those targets our mids and defenders have no excuses - move it quick and get it in there one out

Marshall rucked last year because we had no one else given Longer finished where he was always going to finish and Hickey was an automatic selection at West Coast where he played very well

I never understood Richardson and his preference for Longer - a favouritism which destroyed Hickey at St Kilda by taking his confidence

Now with ruck options we can play Marshall as a forward which is the bonus - and not burn him in ruck contests


minneapolis
Club Player
Posts: 1423
Joined: Thu 22 Apr 2004 5:35am
Location: Done with MN. Happily retired in Vic.
Has thanked: 1310 times
Been thanked: 239 times

Re: Marshall. Ruckman, forward or a bit of both?

Post: # 1840069Post minneapolis »

What about a big bodied midfielder and tagging Cripps when we play The Blues? Didn't Harvey tag Jimmy Stynes successfully?


Nothing better than a good Dad Joke.
User avatar
Sainter_Dad
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 6339
Joined: Thu 05 Jun 2008 1:04pm
Has thanked: 263 times
Been thanked: 1124 times

Re: Marshall. Ruckman, forward or a bit of both?

Post: # 1840072Post Sainter_Dad »

minneapolis wrote: Sat 22 Feb 2020 10:53am What about a big bodied midfielder and tagging Cripps when we play The Blues? Didn't Harvey tag Jimmy Stynes successfully?
What about Cripps tagging Marshall????

Marshall > Cripps


“Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but stupid lasts forever.”

― Aristophanes

If you have a Bee in your Bonnet - I can assist you with that - but it WILL involve some smacking upside the head!
Gershwin
Club Player
Posts: 1558
Joined: Tue 06 Apr 2004 2:05pm
Location: NE Victoria
Has thanked: 19 times
Been thanked: 283 times

Re: Marshall. Ruckman, forward or a bit of both?

Post: # 1840073Post Gershwin »

As long as I have followed the Saints (60 years) we have struggled in the ruck. Most of the time I am happy to break even. The only decent ruckmen in that period have been Carl Ditterich. Jeff Sarau and Peter Everitt. Yes we have had the odd good game from Sidebottom, Wow Jones, Vidovic, etc. but opposition clubs have never had to worry about St Kilda's ruck strength.
But now we have a bloke who can match it with the best if not beat them. In my mind he plays Ruck with relief from Ryder who can hopefully kick goals from the forward line. No 50/50 split. 80/20.


summertime and the living is easy ........
Shaggy
Club Player
Posts: 1404
Joined: Fri 26 May 2006 4:29pm
Has thanked: 31 times
Been thanked: 132 times

Re: Marshall. Ruckman, forward or a bit of both?

Post: # 1840144Post Shaggy »

Gershwin wrote: Sat 22 Feb 2020 11:41am As long as I have followed the Saints (60 years) we have struggled in the ruck. Most of the time I am happy to break even. The only decent ruckmen in that period have been Carl Ditterich. Jeff Sarau and Peter Everitt. Yes we have had the odd good game from Sidebottom, Wow Jones, Vidovic, etc. but opposition clubs have never had to worry about St Kilda's ruck strength.
But now we have a bloke who can match it with the best if not beat them. In my mind he plays Ruck with relief from Ryder who can hopefully kick goals from the forward line. No 50/50 split. 80/20.
Agree.
Ro is genuinely an elite ruck.
As a forward he is good only.
Hopefully we will not have the same spamming as we did the first half of last year from a certain poster who continually pushed for Ro to pinch hit only.
As a mater of courtesy and accountability hopefully we can keep discussion to this thread on whether Ro should be ruck/KPF for 2020.


User avatar
skeptic
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 17028
Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 7:10pm
Has thanked: 3647 times
Been thanked: 2918 times

Re: Marshall. Ruckman, forward or a bit of both?

Post: # 1840155Post skeptic »

Shaggy wrote: Sat 22 Feb 2020 9:54pm
Gershwin wrote: Sat 22 Feb 2020 11:41am As long as I have followed the Saints (60 years) we have struggled in the ruck. Most of the time I am happy to break even. The only decent ruckmen in that period have been Carl Ditterich. Jeff Sarau and Peter Everitt. Yes we have had the odd good game from Sidebottom, Wow Jones, Vidovic, etc. but opposition clubs have never had to worry about St Kilda's ruck strength.
But now we have a bloke who can match it with the best if not beat them. In my mind he plays Ruck with relief from Ryder who can hopefully kick goals from the forward line. No 50/50 split. 80/20.
Agree.
Ro is genuinely an elite ruck.
As a forward he is good only.
Hopefully we will not have the same spamming as we did the first half of last year from a certain poster who continually pushed for Ro to pinch hit only.
As a mater of courtesy and accountability hopefully we can keep discussion to this thread on whether Ro should be ruck/KPF for 2020.
Lol... I suggested it a thread and you overreacted to it like i was trying to lick him into a contract and have brought it up in every thread you could since then. What’s becoming apparent is that he’ll be spending more time forward as he’s a better forward than our other rucks which was the whole basis for the suggestion in the first place.


bigcarl
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 18635
Joined: Thu 11 Mar 2004 1:36am
Has thanked: 1979 times
Been thanked: 865 times

Re: Marshall. Ruckman, forward or a bit of both?

Post: # 1840167Post bigcarl »

Shaggy wrote: Sat 22 Feb 2020 9:54pm Ro is genuinely an elite ruck.
As a forward he is good only..
He’s a genuinely elite FOOTBALLER imo. If only we could clone him.


minneapolis
Club Player
Posts: 1423
Joined: Thu 22 Apr 2004 5:35am
Location: Done with MN. Happily retired in Vic.
Has thanked: 1310 times
Been thanked: 239 times

Re: Marshall. Ruckman, forward or a bit of both?

Post: # 1840840Post minneapolis »

Sainter_Dad wrote: Sat 22 Feb 2020 11:37am
minneapolis wrote: Sat 22 Feb 2020 10:53am What about a big bodied midfielder and tagging Cripps when we play The Blues? Didn't Harvey tag Jimmy Stynes successfully?
What about Cripps tagging Marshall????

Marshall > Cripps
I think Cripps is the Blues player that is most likely to win the game for them. Therefore the argument to tag him. Perhaps I was being a bit "enthusiastic" nominating a ruckman to tag a mid-fielder.

Perhaps the oppo think that Marshall is that player for us. It's a bit harder to tag a ruckman though because he must be unhindered during stoppages.

An interesting question though Pop. Who would you rather have in your club. Marhsall or Cripps. I love em both but would have to choose Cripps. It is a hypothetical though.


Nothing better than a good Dad Joke.
User avatar
Sainter_Dad
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 6339
Joined: Thu 05 Jun 2008 1:04pm
Has thanked: 263 times
Been thanked: 1124 times

Re: Marshall. Ruckman, forward or a bit of both?

Post: # 1840842Post Sainter_Dad »

minneapolis wrote: Sun 01 Mar 2020 3:14am
Sainter_Dad wrote: Sat 22 Feb 2020 11:37am
minneapolis wrote: Sat 22 Feb 2020 10:53am What about a big bodied midfielder and tagging Cripps when we play The Blues? Didn't Harvey tag Jimmy Stynes successfully?
What about Cripps tagging Marshall????

Marshall > Cripps
I think Cripps is the Blues player that is most likely to win the game for them. Therefore the argument to tag him. Perhaps I was being a bit "enthusiastic" nominating a ruckman to tag a mid-fielder.

Perhaps the oppo think that Marshall is that player for us. It's a bit harder to tag a ruckman though because he must be unhindered during stoppages.

An interesting question though Pop. Who would you rather have in your club. Marhsall or Cripps. I love em both but would have to choose Cripps. It is a hypothetical though.
LOL - Are you asking my opinion when referring to Pop?

If so - then I agree with you when you say you would rather both, however, if I really turn off my St Kilda bias (which is welded on) I would say I would rather Marshall.

Cripps is damaging - Marshall also

Patrick CrippsPlayerRowan Marshall
Carlton BluesTeamSt Kilda Saints
MidfieldPositionRuck
101Career Games33
East FremantleOriginNorth Ballarat
24yr 11mthAge24yr 3mth
195cmHeight201cm
92kgWeight104kg
2013 National DraftLast Drafted In2016 Rookie Draft
Round 1, Pick #13Last Draft PositionRound 1, Pick #10
CareerCategoryCareer
101Games33
9.7Kicks8.7
16.5Handballs7.3
26.3Disposals16
3.5Marks4.7
0.5Goals0.4
0.5Behinds0.5
5.9Tackles3.1
0.7Hitouts20.8
3Inside 50s2.8
0.4Goal Assists0.2
2Frees For1.5
1.7Frees Against1.6
15.6Contested Possessions9.2
10.9Uncontested Possessions7.5
18.3Effective Disposals11.3
69.6%Disposal Efficiency %70.6%
3.7Clangers2.9
0.8Contested Marks1.1
0.4Marks Inside 500.7
7.5Clearances3.6
1.2Rebound 50s0.9
1.1One Percenters2.8
0.4Bounces0
84.4%Time On Ground %84.5%
-Centre Clearances1.2
-Stoppage Clearances2.4
-Score Involvements4.5
-Metres Gained208
-Turnovers2.6
-Intercepts2.8
-Tackles Inside 500.4
Effectively Marshall is almost as damaging as Cripps as a Midfielder - plus he is a pretty decent Ruck!

And whilst position in draft is highly irrelevant at this stage - we got Marshall for nothing effectively as a Rookie!!!!

If you just look at last year - Marshall is pretty damn close to Cripps in terms of being a Midfielder.
Patrick CrippsPlayerRowan Marshall
Carlton BluesTeamSt Kilda Saints
MidfieldPositionRuck
101Career Games33
East FremantleOriginNorth Ballarat
34776Date of Birth35027
24yr 11mthAge24yr 3mth
195cmHeight201cm
92kgWeight104kg
2013 National DraftLast Drafted In2016 Rookie Draft
Round 1, Pick #13Last Draft PositionRound 1, Pick #10
Carlton BluesLast Drafted BySt Kilda Saints
2019Stats for Season2019
20Games20
10.6Kicks9.9
17.5Handballs7.8
28.1Disposals17.8
3.1Marks4.2
0.7Goals0.4
0.3Behinds0.1
6.2Tackles3.5
0Hitouts28.4
3.1Inside 50s3.3
0.3Goal Assists0.3
2.4Frees For1.8
1.9Frees Against1.9
16.9Contested Possessions11.2
11.3Uncontested Possessions7.2
19.9Effective Disposals12.6
70.8%Disposal Efficiency %70.8%
4.3Clangers3.2
0.8Contested Marks1.1
0.2Marks Inside 500.5
8.4Clearances5.5
1.1Rebound 50s1.2
1.4One Percenters2.5
0.5Bounces0
89.8Time On Ground %86.2
3.3Centre Clearances1.9
5.1Stoppage Clearances3.5
5.2Score Involvements4.8
268.6Metres Gained254.9
4Turnovers2.8
2.8Intercepts3.1
0.8Tackles Inside 500.1
$753,000AFL Fantasy Price$736,000
101.5AFL Fantasy Score99.2
$635,900Supercoach Price$598,700
117.1Supercoach Score110.2
Last edited by Sainter_Dad on Sun 01 Mar 2020 7:40am, edited 2 times in total.


“Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but stupid lasts forever.”

― Aristophanes

If you have a Bee in your Bonnet - I can assist you with that - but it WILL involve some smacking upside the head!
User avatar
Lyon Tamer
Club Player
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon 27 Jun 2011 12:49pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Marshall. Ruckman, forward or a bit of both?

Post: # 1840849Post Lyon Tamer »

This will be one of the key questions of this season.

While we all know the impact RoMo has as a ruckmen and midfielder, but as a FWD he would cause such problems for the opposition defenders and would also give us a really well balanced forward line. He can take a big mark, will bring the ball to ground and is pretty good below his knees. It will also allow Membrey to play as a 3rd tall and will also take pressure off King and allow him to use his legs up th ground.

The key to this of course is Paddy.....how much are we willing to rob Peter to pay Paul....


User avatar
Sainter_Dad
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 6339
Joined: Thu 05 Jun 2008 1:04pm
Has thanked: 263 times
Been thanked: 1124 times

Re: Marshall. Ruckman, forward or a bit of both?

Post: # 1840850Post Sainter_Dad »

Lyon Tamer wrote: Sun 01 Mar 2020 7:38am This will be one of the key questions of this season.

While we all know the impact RoMo has as a ruckmen and midfielder, but as a FWD he would cause such problems for the opposition defenders and would also give us a really well balanced forward line. He can take a big mark, will bring the ball to ground and is pretty good below his knees. It will also allow Membrey to play as a 3rd tall and will also take pressure off King and allow him to use his legs up th ground.

The key to this of course is Paddy.....how much are we willing to rob Peter to pay Paul....
Horses for Courses - How amazing it will be this year to have the option!


“Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but stupid lasts forever.”

― Aristophanes

If you have a Bee in your Bonnet - I can assist you with that - but it WILL involve some smacking upside the head!
Post Reply