Why the saints passed on Petracca. Inside story

[saynta]

What Roo says:

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl

See below.

[saynta]

What Roo says;

From heraldsun.com.au

"St Kilda would give anything to have taken Petracca at No. 1 over the ill-fated McCartin, writes Nick Riewoldt

Jake Lever, Steven May, Ed Langdon and Adam Tomlinson should be the icing on top of Melbourne’s list rebuild. But how many of the additions have actually been a success? Nick Riewoldt looks at the two rebuilds of Melbourne and St Kilda.
Nick Riewoldt, Herald Sun

|
August 29, 2020 8:12am


The path to Saturday night’s clash between St Kilda and Melbourne can be traced back to 2014. The year both clubs hit the reset button.

The Saints drafted Paddy McCartin at No. 1 and the Demons took Christian Petracca and Angus Brayshaw at two and three.

Until now, it has been a lean decade for both clubs. The Saints have not played finals since 2011.

The Demons made the play-offs once — a preliminary final in 2018 — but their form since makes that season look like an aberration.

They finished 17th last year and this season they have only beaten one top-eight side in Collingwood.

As a result, these sides have been incredibly active in reshaping their lists over the past six years. On Saturday, one point will stand out.

When they run out in Alice Springs the lives of the headline acts from the 2014 draft – McCartin and Petracca – could not be further apart.


Petracca is bound for superstardom

McCartin is footy’s saddest stories

McCartin’s career appears all but over after stepping away from the game to deal with the debilitating concussions that affected his quality of life.

Petracca, in comparison, is on the cusp of superstardom.

When you rewind to that 2014 draft and look at the ensuing six years it really is a cautionary tale about the inexact science and patience needed when recruiting teenagers.

There are no guarantees that early picks will work out immediately, if at all.

There is talk that St Kilda is in the market for an A-grade midfielder.

What they wouldn’t give to have called Petracca’s name out six years ago.

But we can only say that now with the benefit of hindsight. And we wouldn’t have been saying it 12 months ago, such has been the improvement in Petracca’s game.

McCartin endured a horrible string of bad luck.

He is genuinely one of football’s saddest tales.

You could strongly debate whether selecting McCartin was the right call — he played 35 games and he kicked three goals once.

So his performances never rubber stamped the lofty draft expectations, and unfortunately his concussion issues mean we might never get a definitive answer on whether he should have been taken at No.1.

Unless, of course, he recovers sufficiently and makes a comeback to the game — a storyline that we are all barracking for.

With that being said, Petracca was not an overnight sensation.

Another example of why patience is needed when assessing draft talent.

For every Chris Judd and Matt Rowell who burst on to the scene as high picks, there are the Luke Hodges, Gary Abletts and Christian Petraccas who take a few years to hit their peak.

When assessing the 2014 draft, clearly Melbourne has come out on top.

The Saints’ first three picks were McCartin, Hugh Goddard and Daniel McKenzie. Two of the three are no longer on the list, and McKenzie is not getting a game.

So we move on to trades and recruiting mature age players — decisions made on footballers who are a much more known quantity.

Both of these clubs have been active in this space in recent years.

It is here that St Kilda has a clear edge. It brought in Dan Hannebery which hasn’t worked yet and Dean Kent who has been OK, but last year the Saints got it right.

Dan Butler is a tick, Dougal Howard is a tick, Zak Jones is a tick, Brad Hill hasn’t been at his best but we are now seeing more of what he can do, and Paddy Ryder started slowly but is fighting back to his best.

Melbourne has not had the same success. In recent years they have brought in Jake Lever, Steven May, Ed Langdon, Kade Kolodjashnij, Braydon Preuss and Adam Tomlinson.

Of those six, Tomlinson has been a failure, Lever has looked shaky since his knee reconstruction, Preuss and Kolodjashnij have hardly played, Langdon has been OK and May has been good after poor start to his Melbourne career.

The Saints and Dees will still be active in draft and trade moving forward, but one gets the feeling that their pieces are set.

Both squads have great young talent to grow around and Clayton Oliver, Petracca, Max King and Jade Gresham will excite their fans for a decade.

Which brings us to this contest. Saturday looms almost as an elimination final.

A loss to either team is not terminal in terms of finals hopes but if you can’t beat the other you’re not winning the flag.

No matter what side of the fence you sit on with these two, you’re thinking: “If we are good enough, we just win.”


There are tiny degrees of separation between these two teams everywhere you look.

There’s a layer of Alan Richardson sitting in the Melbourne coach’s box, as back up for Simon Goodwin, against his replacement at St Kilda Brett Ratten.

But mostly it stems back to 2014 when both were on the bottom and began a race to the top.

While Saturday is not the summit, it’s a vital step in the journey."

[Joffa Burns]

Speculative but interesting comments from the article:

In the trade period they knocked back Greater Western Sydney’s offer of picks four and seven for No. 1, with Petracca in pole position.

If true....
Very likely we would have secured Paddy with #4 and had #7 as well.
Also showed how strongly GWS rated Petracca
They did similar to secure Kelly with Dom Tyson & #11 for #2 to Melbourne to secure Kelly.

The McCartin story is a sad one. An unquestionable talent who was cut down by endless concussions and has now been delisted.
But some of McCartin’s St Kilda teammates believe alarm bells were ringing before those head knocks interfered.
Did McCartin apply himself in a similar manner to Nick Riewoldt when he was drafted at No. 1 pick in 2000?
Was McCartin strict on his diet and diabetes management? Or was he too lackadaisical in football and in life?

Extremely speculative with no names mentioned, but if true explains a bit about his fitness and lack of endurance. Perhaps he was more hindered by physical condition than lazy when it came to training.

[Bowey Boy]

I think Chris Judd had two shoulder reconstructions so we passed. May have cost us 4 flags.

[Ghost Like]

Speculative but interesting comments from the article:

In the trade period they knocked back Greater Western Sydney’s offer of picks four and seven for No. 1, with Petracca in pole position.

If true....
Very likely we would have secured Paddy with #4 and had #7 as well.
Also showed how strongly GWS rated Petracca
They did similar to secure Kelly with Dom Tyson & #11 for #2 to Melbourne to secure Kelly.

The McCartin story is a sad one. An unquestionable talent who was cut down by endless concussions and has now been delisted.
But some of McCartin’s St Kilda teammates believe alarm bells were ringing before those head knocks interfered.
Did McCartin apply himself in a similar manner to Nick Riewoldt when he was drafted at No. 1 pick in 2000?
Was McCartin strict on his diet and diabetes management? Or was he too lackadaisical in football and in life?

Extremely speculative with no names mentioned, but if true explains a bit about his fitness and lack of endurance. Perhaps he was more hindered by physical condition than lazy when it came to training.

Certainly alarm bells at the time and they did not stop ringing. Obviously a story with two parts. Sadly a story we will keep hearing each year for some time.

I actually think in part it adds extra pressure on Billings from fans. No McCartin to critique, no Petracca so Billings cops it (rightly / wrongly) for not being that AA class midfielder St Kilda has lacked for nearly a decade. Every draft from 2012 we've been screaming out for one.

Jack is a half forward / winger, someone who would be infinitely better with Petracca at St Kilda. Now Billings cops it for not being Petracca, Bontempelli or Cripps.

Maybe??? I don't know. I do know we desperately need that AA midfielder who has pace, goal sense and class. I have my fingers crossed for Clark & Bytel as well as a FA or RFA.

[ace]

It's painful to see my uninformed opinion on this draft from 2014 come true. I mean I was a naive 23 year old from Adelaide who knew it was the wrong choice.

But let's not forget that McCartin was an excellent player and could have been something.

McCartin was a GOP at best but more realistically a liability.
He could not leap for pack marks.
He could not run.
His leads were so slow that full backs could recover to be in the contest.
When the ball hit the ground McCartin could not chase.

[Harves Man]

In that article by our Roo (thanks for quoting, Saynta), it once again makes reference to "with the benefit of hindsite" about our reluctance to pick Petracca. This always drives me mental! At the time of the draft, we as a club unanimously agreed that we DESPERATELY needed a mid-fielder.

Petracca was a large bodied, bullocking, match-winning mid-fielder and was considered to be the number 1 talent in the land. We needed to draft him! Richo swayed the club to pick a short (in comparison to other key position players, playing at the top level), out of condition, diabetic, who played as a full forward - unbelievable!

There is nothing about hindsite that I have written here and many on this forum at that time, also couldn't believe that we made such an obviously wrong choice and said so here. As for him failing the psych. assesment - what other teenager has shown himself to be a bit immature at his age - hardly a rare thing and not exactly impossible to work with (do you think that Sheeds would say no to him, for instance, or do you think that Sheeds would command the kid's respect?). And why did the club ignore that the kid had such obvious, enormous self-belief, rather than just judge his perceived negative traits ? (there were rumours going around at the time, that he was found to be a bit up himself, by some club officials). Just my view.

[suss]

In that article by our Roo (thanks for quoting, Saynta), it once again makes reference to "with the benefit of hindsite" about our reluctance to pick Petracca. This always drives me mental! At the time of the draft, we as a club unanimously agreed that we DESPERATELY needed a mid-fielder.

Petracca was a large bodied, bullocking, match-winning mid-fielder and was considered to be the number 1 talent in the land. We needed to draft him! Richo swayed the club to pick a short (in comparison to other key position players, playing at the top level), out of condition, diabetic, who played as a full forward - unbelievable!

There is nothing about hindsite that I have written here and many on this forum at that time, also couldn't believe that we made such an obviously wrong choice and said so here. As for him failing the psych. assesment - what other teenager has shown himself to be a bit immature at his age - hardly a rare thing and not exactly impossible to work with (do you think that Sheeds would say no to him, for instance, or do you think that Sheeds would command the kid's respect?). And why did the club ignore that the kid had such obvious, enormous self-belief, rather than just judge his perceived negative traits ? (there were rumours going around at the time, that he was found to be a bit up himself, by some club officials). Just my view.

I couldn't agree more. I also thought Petracca spoke really well after the game on the weekend. Showed a lot of maturity, in fact, he acknowledged during the interview that he had matured a lot in regard to his preparation. It just goes to show that 18 kids have the capacity to develop mentally as well as physically. Who would've thought. I still recall the stories of Buddy Franklin checking his text message during his interviews with a few clubs which turned them off.

[freely]

Richo swayed the club? I think that may be a bit of a rewrite. My recollection of what I read at the time is that he took a bit of convincing. In fact here's some of it:
Emma Quayle from The Age 2014

[CURLY]

If McCartin hadn't suffered his concussions we would most likely have drafted Rozee two drafts ago. We needed a key forward and McCartin was the obvious and best choice at the time.

[samoht]

Petracca was always the clear choice .... as a junior, he was kicking as many goals as McCartin the full forward and had more strings to his bow.

But, the malaka/malacca who passed on Petracca had other ideas.

[Ghost Like]

Richo swayed the club? I think that may be a bit of a rewrite. My recollection of what I read at the time is that he took a bit of convincing. In fact here's some of it:
Emma Quayle from The Age 2014

Thanks freely, I'd not read that. Very enlightening. I agree with all Harves Man wrote but you are right, Richo did not sway the club. In fact he had his doubts, as did Finnis. It was Bains & Elshaugh. Explains why Elshaugh got the lemon & sars, rightly so.

[samoht]

So there were 2 malakas ... Bains and Elshaug.

[Joffa Burns]

Richo swayed the club? I think that may be a bit of a rewrite. My recollection of what I read at the time is that he took a bit of convincing. In fact here's some of it:
Emma Quayle from The Age 2014

Thanks freely, I'd not read that. Very enlightening. I agree with all Harves Man wrote but you are right, Richo did not sway the club. In fact he had his doubts, as did Finnis. It was Bains & Elshaugh. Explains why Elshaugh got the lemon & sars, rightly so.

I remember that article, thanks for re-posting freely.

God forbid we'd pick a gun mid and then have to back up the truck for a key forward.
I mean its not like we backed up the truck(s) for an aging past his best injury prone former superstar mid or a gun outside runner who is an elite user but not an elite footballer.

Elite costs money, regardless of position played and size.

If nothing else this should have finished Bains & Elshaugh.
Concussion aside, they ignored his skinfolds, lack of endurance, athleticism and lack of height for a modern KPP.

But his dad was a cross country runner

Lucky his dad wasn't a surgeon or they probably would have given Paddy the gig as club doctor as well.

[Ghost Like]

Very true JB. Whilst it was 100% Bains & Elshaug, I wish Finnis went a little harder in his devil's advocacy because of the holes in their thought process. Also, didn't Richo know the Petracca family? He should have pushed them to justify why a bull of a midfielder, not much shorter than the KP McCartin should not be picked #1.

Better yet, they should have asked the young lady taking notes of this meeting.

[longtimesaint]

This is a decision that will haunt us for a decade and may cost that elusive flag.
Similar to the Ball over Judd selection which probably cost us a premiership or two!

[saynta]

Richo swayed the club? I think that may be a bit of a rewrite. My recollection of what I read at the time is that he took a bit of convincing. In fact here's some of it:
Emma Quayle from The Age 2014

Thanks freely, I'd not read that. Very enlightening. I agree with all Harves Man wrote but you are right, Richo did not sway the club. In fact he had his doubts, as did Finnis. It was Bains & Elshaugh. Explains why Elshaugh got the lemon & sars, rightly so.

I remember that article, thanks for re-posting freely.

God forbid we'd pick a gun mid and then have to back up the truck for a key forward.
I mean its not like we backed up the truck(s) for an aging past his best injury prone former superstar mid or a gun outside runner who is an elite user but not an elite footballer.

Elite costs money, regardless of position played and size.

If nothing else this should have finished Bains & Elshaugh.
Concussion aside, they ignored his skinfolds, lack of endurance, athleticism and lack of height for a modern KPP.

But his dad was a cross country runner

Lucky his dad wasn't a surgeon or they probably would have given Paddy the gig as club doctor as well.

Now that was funny.

[older saint]

Would the same discussion be had if Petracca had continued on with the path he was heading at the end of 2018 -flashy, talented, lazy and bit selfish player. Penny drops and we see he is achieving what the god given ability showed but required work.

Clearly Boyd signing spooked those in charge, but not really fair to compare players as McCartin never has had a shot at it.
Reasonable discussion required on why Petracca, Brayshaw De Goey or anyone else wasn't taken as opposed to comparisons after the fact.

[SaintPav]

Bains knows nothing about football.

What were his football credentials exactly?

He was very overrated if you ask me.

[Saintmatt]

Would the same discussion be had if Petracca had continued on with the path he was heading at the end of 2018 -flashy, talented, lazy and bit selfish player. Penny drops and we see he is achieving what the god given ability showed but required work.

Clearly Boyd signing spooked those in charge, but not really fair to compare players as McCartin never has had a shot at it.
Reasonable discussion required on why Petracca, Brayshaw De Goey or anyone else wasn't taken as opposed to comparisons after the fact.

Absolutely the Boyd thing spooked them. But it wasn't just him. Remember the Swans had just signed Buddy F for a gazillion $ in 2013. Cho's comment about having to pay a lot of $ for a KF when you needed one was entirely correct at the time and very much the pervading thought of those in player management. Having a player manager as a client at the time - the Dogs were considered borderline reckless in the industry for doing that deal with GWS (good luck to them - their man shone brightly on the biggest day and contributed meaningfully to winning a flag) but, no Dogs supporter now bemoans paying overs for Boyd even though he no longer plays.

I sat next to Bains at a function the night before the draft and as cagey as he was, every one at the function knew we were going to pick Paddy. I've never questioned why we didn't draft Petracca - he didn't want to go to go from Doncaster to Seaford every day and made that known from the get go.

I've always wondered more why we didn't draft Brayshaw (the other best mid) or Peter Wright (who was the other best key forward).

[SaintPav]

Didn't we have the opportunity to recruit Martin at the end of 2013 but the club ”shyed” away?

So theoretically, we could have had both him and Petracca playing in the same team.

Imagine them both swapping between midfield and forward?

That would have been very interesting.

[Moods]

Speculative but interesting comments from the article:

In the trade period they knocked back Greater Western Sydney’s offer of picks four and seven for No. 1, with Petracca in pole position.

If true....
Very likely we would have secured Paddy with #4 and had #7 as well.
Also showed how strongly GWS rated Petracca
They did similar to secure Kelly with Dom Tyson & #11 for #2 to Melbourne to secure Kelly.

The McCartin story is a sad one. An unquestionable talent who was cut down by endless concussions and has now been delisted.
But some of McCartin’s St Kilda teammates believe alarm bells were ringing before those head knocks interfered.
Did McCartin apply himself in a similar manner to Nick Riewoldt when he was drafted at No. 1 pick in 2000?
Was McCartin strict on his diet and diabetes management? Or was he too lackadaisical in football and in life?

Extremely speculative with no names mentioned, but if true explains a bit about his fitness and lack of endurance. Perhaps he was more hindered by physical condition than lazy when it came to training.

Certainly alarm bells at the time and they did not stop ringing. Obviously a story with two parts. Sadly a story we will keep hearing each year for some time.

I actually think in part it adds extra pressure on Billings from fans. No McCartin to critique, no Petracca so Billings cops it (rightly / wrongly) for not being that AA class midfielder St Kilda has lacked for nearly a decade. Every draft from 2012 we've been screaming out for one.

Jack is a half forward / winger, someone who would be infinitely better with Petracca at St Kilda. Now Billings cops it for not being Petracca, Bontempelli or Cripps.

Maybe??? I don't know. I do know we desperately need that AA midfielder who has pace, goal sense and class. I have my fingers crossed for Clark & Bytel as well as a FA or RFA.

That's a fair comment. I know the moment I saw Jack I was slightly underwhelmed. I mean he looked small. How was he ever going to consistently dominate like we needed him to? And so it has come to pass. An AFL standard player who can have some very good games but sadly not the match winner we hoped and needed him to be. Certainly doesn't have the body to drag the team across the line like a Dangerfield, Fyffe, Cripps, Martin type. Petracca was always potentially going to be that player.

I guess we need him to be a Nathan Brown type (before he broke his leg)

As for Paddy. In some respects the concussions have saved him from a more brutal critique in my opinion. The view is that 'he's always been injured with concussion' therefore we can't give an accurate assessment. I have always suspected that if he had a good run at it, he would have had a solid 150-200 game career but be considered no better than his brother up in Sydney. Good game sense, doesn't lack for courage. Probably once he gets continuity a fair set of hands and a reasonable kick for goal. We never saw much of any of those things but I suspect he has them.

Unfortunately I believe he always was going to be too small for what we hoped he was going to be and way too slow and immobile. Remember he's smaller than Roo, except Roo was an elite athlete of the highest kind in our sport. He was gifted aerobically and anaerobically. He was also fast, mobile, and could jump. He also had naturally long arms, or appeared to anyway. He also had a great footy brain and was courageous beyond belief. In short I believe that Paddy would become a reasonable 3rd tall option or a great back up if Membery good injured. Was a ridiculous decision to go for him and what has saved the club from embarrassment is the fact that we never actually got to see him play regularly.

[Harves Man]

Richo swayed the club? I think that may be a bit of a rewrite. My recollection of what I read at the time is that he took a bit of convincing. In fact here's some of it:
Emma Quayle from The Age 2014

Yes, I might have got this bit wrong, Freely - I was only going by the Richo quote that Ace posted on the previous page.

I may well be wrong about Richo's role in the recruiting of Paddy, but I still stand by what I said about the sheer lunacy of not choosing the highest rated juniour player in the country, who's atributes we desperately needed at the time (and still do to this day!) and who is a mid-fielder and good goal kicker.

[Harves Man]

Petracca was always the clear choice .... as a junior, he was kicking as many goals as McCartin the full forward and had more strings to his bow.

But, the malaka/malacca who passed on Petracca had other ideas.

I couldn't agree more, if you had electrodes on my genitals!

[Harves Man]

Bains knows nothing about football.

What were his football credentials exactly?

He was very overrated if you ask me.

He had an accountancy degree and a name that is all multi cultural and inclusive and stuff - stop being so negative!