Hickey looks a new player!

[takeaway]

Speaking of coaches...

Melbourne FC has a new development coach this year. The club wasn’t going to wait until Goodwin missed out on finals again. Did you see Mark Williams motivating the Melbourne players out on the field?

You know how we knocked back Chocco Williams from taking over in 2014 ...because apparently he wanted a five year contract and we only wanted to give him 3...Well we got Cho instead and we kept him and paid him for a full 6 years!!

How's that for lunacy?

This makes me want to cry

Please Scallop... can we put this on the don’t ever remind me list

How ridiculous. Who knows how Choco would have gone with Saints in lieu of Richo, with the same teams etc. So he's on the field motivating the players last night, so what? Was that the reason Melbourne won?

You could just as easily say Melbourne appointed a Director of Coaching last year, and this year appointed him General Manager of AFL Football Performance, and we have not beaten Melbourne since his appointment, after owning the Dees for a lot of the 2000's. Maybe Richo has more to do with Melbourne's current performances than Choco?

[skeptic]

Speaking of coaches...

Melbourne FC has a new development coach this year. The club wasn’t going to wait until Goodwin missed out on finals again. Did you see Mark Williams motivating the Melbourne players out on the field?

You know how we knocked back Chocco Williams from taking over in 2014 ...because apparently he wanted a five year contract and we only wanted to give him 3...Well we got Cho instead and we kept him and paid him for a full 6 years!!

How's that for lunacy?

This makes me want to cry

Please Scallop... can we put this on the don’t ever remind me list

How ridiculous. Who knows how Choco would have gone with Saints in lieu of Richo, with the same teams etc. So he's on the field motivating the players last night, so what? Was that the reason Melbourne won?

You could just as easily say Melbourne appointed a Director of Coaching last year, and this year appointed him General Manager of AFL Football Performance, and we have not beaten Melbourne since his appointment, after owning the Dees for a lot of the 2000's. Maybe Richo has more to do with Melbourne's current performances than Choco?

Meh

I’d have backed Choco over Richo any day of the week 6-7 years ago let alone standing by that decision now with the benefit of what a disaster the Richo era was.

As far as not beating Melbourne since the appointment, I’m not entirely convinced on Ratten... there’s a lot to like about him but there’s some peculiarities about his approach to some things... not least of which to me is team selection which at least against Melbourne has been poor IMO the last 2 occasions

[takeaway]

Speaking of coaches...

Melbourne FC has a new development coach this year. The club wasn’t going to wait until Goodwin missed out on finals again. Did you see Mark Williams motivating the Melbourne players out on the field?

You know how we knocked back Chocco Williams from taking over in 2014 ...because apparently he wanted a five year contract and we only wanted to give him 3...Well we got Cho instead and we kept him and paid him for a full 6 years!!

How's that for lunacy?

This makes me want to cry

Please Scallop... can we put this on the don’t ever remind me list

How ridiculous. Who knows how Choco would have gone with Saints in lieu of Richo, with the same teams etc. So he's on the field motivating the players last night, so what? Was that the reason Melbourne won?

You could just as easily say Melbourne appointed a Director of Coaching last year, and this year appointed him General Manager of AFL Football Performance, and we have not beaten Melbourne since his appointment, after owning the Dees for a lot of the 2000's. Maybe Richo has more to do with Melbourne's current performances than Choco?

Meh

I’d have backed Choco over Richo any day of the week 6-7 years ago let alone standing by that decision now with the benefit of what a disaster the Richo era was.

Of course you would. It was all Richo's fault, that simplistic assumption is imprinted on the minds of many.

[skeptic]

Speaking of coaches...

Melbourne FC has a new development coach this year. The club wasn’t going to wait until Goodwin missed out on finals again. Did you see Mark Williams motivating the Melbourne players out on the field?

You know how we knocked back Chocco Williams from taking over in 2014 ...because apparently he wanted a five year contract and we only wanted to give him 3...Well we got Cho instead and we kept him and paid him for a full 6 years!!

How's that for lunacy?

This makes me want to cry

Please Scallop... can we put this on the don’t ever remind me list

How ridiculous. Who knows how Choco would have gone with Saints in lieu of Richo, with the same teams etc. So he's on the field motivating the players last night, so what? Was that the reason Melbourne won?

You could just as easily say Melbourne appointed a Director of Coaching last year, and this year appointed him General Manager of AFL Football Performance, and we have not beaten Melbourne since his appointment, after owning the Dees for a lot of the 2000's. Maybe Richo has more to do with Melbourne's current performances than Choco?

Meh

I’d have backed Choco over Richo any day of the week 6-7 years ago let alone standing by that decision now with the benefit of what a disaster the Richo era was.

Of course you would. It was all Richo's fault, that simplistic assumption is imprinted on the minds of many.

I don’t think it’s too much of a stretch to say that comparing Richo and Choco’s reigns as senior coaches one clearly did better than the other.

It seems a safe bet that he would have done better than what Richo managed over his 6 year helm. You can turn it into a ‘I have a Richo hate blind spot’ thing if you want but given the benefit of hindsight too... it’s hard to imagine he would have done worse

Out of interest takeaway...
If you went back in time to that appointment with the benefit of hindsight, would you still chose Richo over Choco?

[kosifantutti]

I take my hat off to him 4 clubs in 4 different states I doubt any AFL player has even done that

There was another. Jonathan Giles I think. But he never played seniors at one of the clubs.

[takeaway]

Speaking of coaches...

Melbourne FC has a new development coach this year. The club wasn’t going to wait until Goodwin missed out on finals again. Did you see Mark Williams motivating the Melbourne players out on the field?

You know how we knocked back Chocco Williams from taking over in 2014 ...because apparently he wanted a five year contract and we only wanted to give him 3...Well we got Cho instead and we kept him and paid him for a full 6 years!!

How's that for lunacy?

This makes me want to cry

Please Scallop... can we put this on the don’t ever remind me list

How ridiculous. Who knows how Choco would have gone with Saints in lieu of Richo, with the same teams etc. So he's on the field motivating the players last night, so what? Was that the reason Melbourne won?

You could just as easily say Melbourne appointed a Director of Coaching last year, and this year appointed him General Manager of AFL Football Performance, and we have not beaten Melbourne since his appointment, after owning the Dees for a lot of the 2000's. Maybe Richo has more to do with Melbourne's current performances than Choco?

Meh

I’d have backed Choco over Richo any day of the week 6-7 years ago let alone standing by that decision now with the benefit of what a disaster the Richo era was.

Of course you would. It was all Richo's fault, that simplistic assumption is imprinted on the minds of many.

I don’t think it’s too much of a stretch to say that comparing Richo and Choco’s reigns as senior coaches one clearly did better than the other.

It seems a safe bet that he would have done better than what Richo managed over his 6 year helm. You can turn it into a ‘I have a Richo hate blind spot’ thing if you want but given the benefit of hindsight too... it’s hard to imagine he would have done worse

Out of interest takeaway...
If you went back in time to that appointment with the benefit of hindsight, would you still chose Richo over Choco?

I think I posted around the time that I liked Choco. Richo came in late, sort of out of the blue. No way would I have given Choco a 5 year contract though. With all that happened over that time he probably would have lasted 2-3 years only anyway.
Richo was not a great coach, but imo did a lot more for the Saints than many give him credit for, some of which has contributed to the Saints' more stable situation today.

[Joffa Burns]

We must have rated Tom highly at some stage as we gave up #13 for him with some later pick shuffling.

Perhaps Tom has matured, perhaps last chance has hit him between the eyes or perhaps the new coach has said I believe in you and I’m giving you an extended run as the #1 ruck man.

Who knows but good luck to him.
The problem we had with Tom & Billy was you couldn’t play both in the same team as Billy could only play one position (and not overly effective at that).

[ace]

Unfortunately for some unknown reason Richo preferred Longer when Hickey always had a bigger upside

Richo got his ruck advice from StoneCold !!!!!!

[Cordz2]

I’m really happy to see some of our old place doing really well especially because we gave them all every opportunity at Saint Kilda. I like watching Newnes play now. I’ve also enjoyed seeing Brucey doing better this year. Hickey is another one. We don’t need any of these players any more and having them play well elsewhere makes me happy for them.

[skeptic]

Unfortunately for some unknown reason Richo preferred Longer when Hickey always had a bigger upside

Richo got his ruck advice from StoneCold !!!!!!

Chicken or the egg though?

Stone cold repeatedly alluded to the notion that Hickey was not respected at all at the club and openly criticised by the coaches/playing group

It feels like that was reflected in how he was treated

[SaintPav]

Didn't Choco go off in his last interview and come across as a loose cannon?

Anyway, it's only round 2 and it's a long season.

[B.M]

Hickey played some good games at StK

[The Billings Method]

Stone Cold, Stone Cold! Where for art thou Stone Cold? Cuddling Bllly while Hickey advances his career?

[saintkid]

Hickey played some good games at StK

He sure did and was quite impressive too.

[Scollop]

shhhh....don't mention Cho

there's someone lurking who pops up to defend him every time there is a whiff of criticism

...maybe he's just defending the boards decision to appoint him and give him that extension in late 2017?? Who knows??

[Scollop]

No way would I have given Choco a 5 year contract though. With all that happened over that time he probably would have lasted 2-3 years only anyway.
Richo was not a great coach, but imo did a lot more for the Saints than many give him credit for, some of which has contributed to the Saints' more stable situation today.

Maybe stability under Choco would have delivered us Petracca.

Maybe Choco would have given the Pelican the boot a lot earlier and we wouldn't have wasted so many picks

Maybe stability under Choco would have cleaned out some of the older guys earlier and we would have traded for draft picks like we've done recently

maybe stability under a good coach would have given us finals in 2018/ top 4 in 2019 and maybe Choco would have delivered us a flag!!

All pure speculation

Same as saying "he probably would have lasted 2-3 years only"

[The Billings Method]

Speaking of coaches...

Melbourne FC has a new development coach this year. The club wasn’t going to wait until Goodwin missed out on finals again. Did you see Mark Williams motivating the Melbourne players out on the field?

You know how we knocked back Chocco Williams from taking over in 2014 ...because apparently he wanted a five year contract and we only wanted to give him 3...Well we got Cho instead and we kept him and paid him for a full 6 years!!

How's that for lunacy?

This makes me want to cry

Please Scallop... can we put this on the don’t ever remind me list

How ridiculous. Who knows how Choco would have gone with Saints in lieu of Richo, with the same teams etc. So he's on the field motivating the players last night, so what? Was that the reason Melbourne won?

You could just as easily say Melbourne appointed a Director of Coaching last year, and this year appointed him General Manager of AFL Football Performance, and we have not beaten Melbourne since his appointment, after owning the Dees for a lot of the 2000's. Maybe Richo has more to do with Melbourne's current performances than Choco?

Meh

I’d have backed Choco over Richo any day of the week 6-7 years ago let alone standing by that decision now with the benefit of what a disaster the Richo era was.

Of course you would. It was all Richo's fault, that simplistic assumption is imprinted on the minds of many.

I don’t think it’s too much of a stretch to say that comparing Richo and Choco’s reigns as senior coaches one clearly did better than the other.

It seems a safe bet that he would have done better than what Richo managed over his 6 year helm. You can turn it into a ‘I have a Richo hate blind spot’ thing if you want but given the benefit of hindsight too... it’s hard to imagine he would have done worse

Out of interest takeaway...
If you went back in time to that appointment with the benefit of hindsight, would you still chose Richo over Choco?

I think I posted around the time that I liked Choco. Richo came in late, sort of out of the blue. No way would I have given Choco a 5 year contract though. With all that happened over that time he probably would have lasted 2-3 years only anyway.
Richo was not a great coach, but imo did a lot more for the Saints than many give him credit for, some of which has contributed to the Saints' more stable situation today.

Please explain further the logic behind your conclusion. I'm all ears. No, really. .

[Joffa Burns]

I’m really happy to see some of our old place doing really well especially because we gave them all every opportunity at Saint Kilda. I like watching Newnes play now. I’ve also enjoyed seeing Brucey doing better this year. Hickey is another one. We don’t need any of these players any more and having them play well elsewhere makes me happy for them.

Newnes has laid one tackle in total over his two games so far this season.

Some things never change

[spert]

I always rated Hickey. He was a young ruckman who did some nice things, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure the only reason we traded him was because he was one of the few players we had who actually had any value.

Probably right- his career stood still under Richo's guidance.

[Vazelos]

For some reason he is now leaping and rucking much better at least since he was at the Saints. Today he is playing against OBrien and is beating him. I believe he is another player that was cruelled by Richardson's concentrating on what they didnt do rather than the positives. He was very under rated by people at our club for some reason?

Plus isnt it just our luck that Sydney are one of the teams that we play twice and this year they are flying!

Apparently a great development coach that was another fallacy. Nearly 6 years of employment the luckiest guy in AFL history an absolute nightmare.

[takeaway]

No way would I have given Choco a 5 year contract though. With all that happened over that time he probably would have lasted 2-3 years only anyway.
Richo was not a great coach, but imo did a lot more for the Saints than many give him credit for, some of which has contributed to the Saints' more stable situation today.

Maybe stability under Choco would have delivered us Petracca.

Maybe Choco would have given the Pelican the boot a lot earlier and we wouldn't have wasted so many picks

Maybe stability under Choco would have cleaned out some of the older guys earlier and we would have traded for draft picks like we've done recently

maybe stability under a good coach would have given us finals in 2018/ top 4 in 2019 and maybe Choco would have delivered us a flag!!

All pure speculation

Same as saying "he probably would have lasted 2-3 years only"

Correct. All pure speculation, started by your good self. Seeing Choco frothing on the field sparked some creeping determinism I think.

Stability under Choco? Stability? Got a flag at Port, but had a great side, should have had more flags, Choco certainly didn't have a stable relationship with many in the Port hierarchy. If Saints missed on Choco, how many other clubs have snapped him up as senior coach? None, because he is far more suited to a development/assistant coach role, as is Richo. Who was instrumental in appointing him to his developmental role at Melbourne? - Richo.

Who's next in your rear view mirror as a should have been appointed replacement for Richo? Let's see, we play bombers .... Blake Caracella - well regarded, was available, why wasn't he appointed? What were they thinking? Lunacy.

[takeaway]

Speaking of coaches...

Melbourne FC has a new development coach this year. The club wasn’t going to wait until Goodwin missed out on finals again. Did you see Mark Williams motivating the Melbourne players out on the field?

You know how we knocked back Chocco Williams from taking over in 2014 ...because apparently he wanted a five year contract and we only wanted to give him 3...Well we got Cho instead and we kept him and paid him for a full 6 years!!

How's that for lunacy?

This makes me want to cry

Please Scallop... can we put this on the don’t ever remind me list

How ridiculous. Who knows how Choco would have gone with Saints in lieu of Richo, with the same teams etc. So he's on the field motivating the players last night, so what? Was that the reason Melbourne won?

You could just as easily say Melbourne appointed a Director of Coaching last year, and this year appointed him General Manager of AFL Football Performance, and we have not beaten Melbourne since his appointment, after owning the Dees for a lot of the 2000's. Maybe Richo has more to do with Melbourne's current performances than Choco?

Meh

I’d have backed Choco over Richo any day of the week 6-7 years ago let alone standing by that decision now with the benefit of what a disaster the Richo era was.

Of course you would. It was all Richo's fault, that simplistic assumption is imprinted on the minds of many.

I don’t think it’s too much of a stretch to say that comparing Richo and Choco’s reigns as senior coaches one clearly did better than the other.

It seems a safe bet that he would have done better than what Richo managed over his 6 year helm. You can turn it into a ‘I have a Richo hate blind spot’ thing if you want but given the benefit of hindsight too... it’s hard to imagine he would have done worse

Out of interest takeaway...
If you went back in time to that appointment with the benefit of hindsight, would you still chose Richo over Choco?

I think I posted around the time that I liked Choco. Richo came in late, sort of out of the blue. No way would I have given Choco a 5 year contract though. With all that happened over that time he probably would have lasted 2-3 years only anyway.
Richo was not a great coach, but imo did a lot more for the Saints than many give him credit for, some of which has contributed to the Saints' more stable situation today.

Please explain further the logic behind your conclusion. I'm all ears. No, really. .

I'm fully aware you're all ears. Suggest you use your eyes and have a look at the 463 threads on this forum regarding Richo. Ranges from those that think an AFL coach is the total boss, the bloke who turns up a few minutes early at training with all the footys in the ute and starts laying out the witches hats, then selects the team from behind the bar, to those who think the Saints are administered directly by the AFL, appointing staff and coaches. Have a read - all the answers are there.

[SaintDippa]

The Hickey I remember was a forum boo boy, too slow regularly beaten in the ruck and was moved on to give up and coming Marshall more minutes. Broke even Saturday and stats say had 9 touches and only 3 marks. Wouldn't say trading was a mistake, unlike the McEvoy decision.

[Scollop]

No way would I have given Choco a 5 year contract though. With all that happened over that time he probably would have lasted 2-3 years only anyway.
Richo was not a great coach, but imo did a lot more for the Saints than many give him credit for, some of which has contributed to the Saints' more stable situation today.

Maybe stability under Choco would have delivered us Petracca.

Maybe Choco would have given the Pelican the boot a lot earlier and we wouldn't have wasted so many picks

Maybe stability under Choco would have cleaned out some of the older guys earlier and we would have traded for draft picks like we've done recently

maybe stability under a good coach would have given us finals in 2018/ top 4 in 2019 and maybe Choco would have delivered us a flag!!

All pure speculation

Same as saying "he probably would have lasted 2-3 years only"

Correct. All pure speculation, started by your good self. Seeing Choco frothing on the field sparked some creeping determinism I think.

Stability under Choco? Stability? Got a flag at Port, but had a great side, should have had more flags, Choco certainly didn't have a stable relationship with many in the Port hierarchy. If Saints missed on Choco, how many other clubs have snapped him up as senior coach? None, because he is far more suited to a development/assistant coach role, as is Richo. Who was instrumental in appointing him to his developmental role at Melbourne? - Richo.

Who's next in your rear view mirror as a should have been appointed replacement for Richo? Let's see, we play bombers .... Blake Caracella - well regarded, was available, why wasn't he appointed? What were they thinking? Lunacy.

As some of the politicians would say; just to be clear, I think Cho was one of the worst senior coaches ever!

Any success with him at a club is purely coincidental

[saynta]

No way would I have given Choco a 5 year contract though. With all that happened over that time he probably would have lasted 2-3 years only anyway.
Richo was not a great coach, but imo did a lot more for the Saints than many give him credit for, some of which has contributed to the Saints' more stable situation today.

Maybe stability under Choco would have delivered us Petracca.

Maybe Choco would have given the Pelican the boot a lot earlier and we wouldn't have wasted so many picks

Maybe stability under Choco would have cleaned out some of the older guys earlier and we would have traded for draft picks like we've done recently

maybe stability under a good coach would have given us finals in 2018/ top 4 in 2019 and maybe Choco would have delivered us a flag!!

All pure speculation

Same as saying "he probably would have lasted 2-3 years only"

Correct. All pure speculation, started by your good self. Seeing Choco frothing on the field sparked some creeping determinism I think.

Stability under Choco? Stability? Got a flag at Port, but had a great side, should have had more flags, Choco certainly didn't have a stable relationship with many in the Port hierarchy. If Saints missed on Choco, how many other clubs have snapped him up as senior coach? None, because he is far more suited to a development/assistant coach role, as is Richo. Who was instrumental in appointing him to his developmental role at Melbourne? - Richo.

Who's next in your rear view mirror as a should have been appointed replacement for Richo? Let's see, we play bombers .... Blake Caracella - well regarded, was available, why wasn't he appointed? What were they thinking? Lunacy.

As some of the politicians would say; just to be clear, I think Cho was one of the worst senior coaches ever!

Any success with him at a club is purely coincidental

Watson by a country mile then Blight. ffs,