North into Billings

[Teflon]

So in your eyes Teflon, what or who do you honestly think we will get for a player you don't rate? Or which club will give up a salary / contract to induce a Top 5 draft pick or offer up this magical mid you speak of?

We have had ample opportunities to select a gun mid over the past 10 years however our ability to sabotage our list strategies has no peer.

We chose McCartin when it should have been Petracca.

We had to choose King because of our choice of McCartin.

We drafted Hannebery because we were desperate and failed our due diligence.

We had to choose Crouch because Hannebery is a bust.

Carlisle another howler in our desperation to be a player in the trade game & a "destination club".

I wish I had your confidence in our recruiting team / list managers. It is the overpaid rubbish and butchering drafts that has us where we are. Not our actual good players who need better players, rather than be traded for speculative picks.

On that score then we should never draft again. cause Saints are just really bad???
Yes we’ve made howlers.....are we the only club to have done that??
For what it’s worth, on his day, I rate Billings especially against lower opponents....all I’m suggesting is do I think he holds some value on the market??? Yes. Do I think we can cover him IF we pick/trade smart for a gun mid replacement? Yes I do.
So I think there’s a chance for net gain here and to fill a genuine list gap and I’m pragmatic enough to know other clubs won’t even entertain that discussion unless you are prepared to pony up with something of interest.
We can cover Jack IMO
He’s not Steele, Marshall , King he’s “handy” on his day

[SaintPav]

Yeah, but in life and in business you need to take probability into account to mange risk. Unless they have a particular player (s) and or deal in mind, what you are proposing is very risky and could easily backfire.

Dogs didn't have to trade anyone out to get Bont, so not a good analogy.

I agree with you though, we need to find currency to trade.

[Teflon]

Yeah, but in life and in business you need to take probability into account to mange risk. Unless they have a particular player (s) and or deal in mind, what you are proposing is very risky and could easily backfire.

Dogs didn't have to trade anyone out to get Bont, so not a good analogy.

I agree with you though, we need to find currency to trade.

So what else we prepared to offer Pav?????
Don’t say Seb....that won’t cut it
I’ll just remind all our kid talent cupboard is empty

[Ghost Like]

That was an amazing goal by the Bont, he's a freak & someone I'll pay to watch play.

Yes, he did go after JB but I'm still waiting on the links where everyone rated him in front of JB at draft time. (I'm not asking you to furnish them because I know they don't exist)

JB was the correct selection at the time seeing Kelly had been selected. McCartin was never the correct selection.

[Teflon]

That was an amazing goal by the Bont, he's a freak & someone I'll pay to watch play.

Yes, he did go after JB but I'm still waiting on the links where everyone rated him in front of JB at draft time. (I'm not asking you to furnish them because I know they don't exist)

JB was the correct selection at the time seeing Kelly had been selected. McCartin was never the correct selection.

Not sure the Dogs thought that.....
Anyhoo it’s clear you’re keen to keep handy players on their day fair enough
Who you offering up on our list to help us bring in the elite mid talent we need ??! I’m all ears
As I say that , Bont has just kicked a super captains goal ...

[SaintPav]

Yeah, but in life and in business you need to take probability into account to mange risk. Unless they have a particular player (s) and or deal in mind, what you are proposing is very risky and could easily backfire.

Dogs didn't have to trade anyone out to get Bont, so not a good analogy.

I agree with you though, we need to find currency to trade.

So what else we prepared to offer Pav?????
Don’t say Seb....that won’t cut it
I’ll just remind all our kid talent cupboard is empty

Hard to say exactly without knowing the terms of the transaction.

[Ghost Like]

That's fine he's a super player. Still trying to find all the posters and experts who rated Bont in front of JB, I'll keep looking.

For a start, pay out the likes of Hannebery, Carlisle, Kent, Long, McKenzie...free up the salary cap. Cut the other dead wood. Retire Geary and Frawley.

Use the salary cap space to attract the right FA or RFA, Merrett or Kelly would be perfect. Our remaining list places taken by kids from the TAC or 20 / 21 year olds from the State leagues.

Welcome Paton and Gresham back into our best 22 on top of another dozen or so games into Bytel, Byrnes, King. Another pre season into Clark & Coffield.

2022 & 2023 may not be that bad afterall.

[B.M]

Billings was rated ahead of Bontempelli in his draft year!

I was hoping for Kelly, but he was gone

Billings was the logical choice

Bont was just a great bit of drafting, lucky or otherwise
Like Pendlebury, Cripps, Danger who were taken mid first round

[Teflon]

Billings was rated ahead of Bontempelli in his draft year!

I was hoping for Kelly, but he was gone

Billings was the logical choice

Bont was just a great bit of drafting, lucky or otherwise
Like Pendlebury, Cripps, Danger who were taken mid first round

Ahh the old “lucky” right

[Teflon]

That's fine he's a super player. Still trying to find all the posters and experts who rated Bont in front of JB, I'll keep looking.

For a start, pay out the likes of Hannebery, Carlisle, Kent, Long, McKenzie...free up the salary cap. Cut the other dead wood. Retire Geary and Frawley.

Use the salary cap space to attract the right FA or RFA, Merrett or Kelly would be perfect. Our remaining list places taken by kids from the TAC or 20 / 21 year olds from the State leagues.

Welcome Paton and Gresham back into our best 22 on top of another dozen or so games into Bytel, Byrnes, King. Another pre season into Clark & Coffield.

2022 & 2023 may not be that bad afterall.

That’s 7 list spots....you sure you trust our recruiting to get that right????
What if Bombers said we are interested to play ball on Merret but only if JB is on the table ....would you do it?

[B.M]

Why would Essendon consider trading their best mid??

[Teflon]

Why would Essendon consider trading their best mid??

I don’t think any side contemplates trading their best mid - he’s RFA it depends on how hard he wants to leave but whether it’s a Merret or a Kelly or whoever meets our need IF we are in a situation where we have to cough up a player they ain’t taking a Kent....
Billings can be covered for mine or you look to a top pick trade scenario if he can assist on that....especially if we finished low enough and another wants to pay Jack over the odds ....good luck to him and them but that pick could then become handy ., Club needs to find another 1-2 A graders + 4-5 kids with potential to round out the list between now and 2023 when we might challenge with B King who will cost a fortune in draft currency and we don’t have much to move around to create that so looks like we will be picking ass end of the draft in 22/23.

[Ghost Like]

That's fine he's a super player. Still trying to find all the posters and experts who rated Bont in front of JB, I'll keep looking.

For a start, pay out the likes of Hannebery, Carlisle, Kent, Long, McKenzie...free up the salary cap. Cut the other dead wood. Retire Geary and Frawley.

Use the salary cap space to attract the right FA or RFA, Merrett or Kelly would be perfect. Our remaining list places taken by kids from the TAC or 20 / 21 year olds from the State leagues.

Welcome Paton and Gresham back into our best 22 on top of another dozen or so games into Bytel, Byrnes, King. Another pre season into Clark & Coffield.

2022 & 2023 may not be that bad afterall.

That’s 7 list spots....you sure you trust our recruiting to get that right????
What if Bombers said we are interested to play ball on Merret but only if JB is on the table ....would you do it?

You asked, I answered. I trust them to get some right, not all. Do you want to hold on to the dead wood, the expensive, non playing busts and only trade our good players for speculative draft picks?

Why would either club or player get involved in a trade scenario? Both are either FA or RFA. It would make more sense for one club to lobby for both. So, no, if I was St Kilda I would not waste time and energy dealing with Essendon, it never ends well & nor do we have to.

Feel free to outline your plan & how it will play out by trading out our better players. I don't want to rebuild & I'm confident our recent recruits did not come for a rebuild.

[Teflon]

That's fine he's a super player. Still trying to find all the posters and experts who rated Bont in front of JB, I'll keep looking.

For a start, pay out the likes of Hannebery, Carlisle, Kent, Long, McKenzie...free up the salary cap. Cut the other dead wood. Retire Geary and Frawley.

Use the salary cap space to attract the right FA or RFA, Merrett or Kelly would be perfect. Our remaining list places taken by kids from the TAC or 20 / 21 year olds from the State leagues.

Welcome Paton and Gresham back into our best 22 on top of another dozen or so games into Bytel, Byrnes, King. Another pre season into Clark & Coffield.

2022 & 2023 may not be that bad afterall.

That’s 7 list spots....you sure you trust our recruiting to get that right????
What if Bombers said we are interested to play ball on Merret but only if JB is on the table ....would you do it?

You asked, I answered. I trust them to get some right, not all. Do you want to hold on to the dead wood, the expensive, non playing busts and only trade our good players for speculative draft picks?

Why would either club or player get involved in a trade scenario? Both are either FA or RFA. It would make more sense for one club to lobby for both. So, no, if I was St Kilda I would not waste time and energy dealing with Essendon, it never ends well & nor do we have to.

Feel free to outline your plan & how it will play out by trading out our better players. I don't want to rebuild & I'm confident our recent recruits did not come for a rebuild.

So you want to clear out deadwood (I agree) but not offer up any decent to potentially bring in quality or move up the draft list to get quality which most acknowledge we need?
Clearing deadwood is easy - improvement of the list requires some tougher decisions.
I think you feel we are as a list good enough to challenge now - I don’t agree.
My plan? Simple - offer up a quality player we can cover (not Steel/Marshall etc) who will want (but not deserve) big $$ to help us bring in quality (B King? going to require a bit....how do you pay for that...with D Kemp???) move deadwood on and put recruiting on notice to get it right.
I think it’s at least a 2 year turn around that then allows this core a shot at really challenging and not treading water 9-11.

[SaintPav]

Dynamics versus statics: it’s impossible to have a conversation around hypotheticals which is why this conversation (which happens every year) just goes around in circles, but unless the club gets a great offer which improves our list overall, I don't think we should trade out any of our untouchable players.

It looks like the club has struggled to trade its fringe players over the last few years (eg Newnes, Dunstan, Lonie, Webster etc) which says we don't have any real depth or depth that other clubs rate anyway.

The playing list can be improved through:

Drafting young talent include opportunistic swapping of picks
Drafting mature age players using late picks through the state leagues etc
Free agency
Organic and natural improvement of the playing list

[Ghost Like]

That's fine he's a super player. Still trying to find all the posters and experts who rated Bont in front of JB, I'll keep looking.

For a start, pay out the likes of Hannebery, Carlisle, Kent, Long, McKenzie...free up the salary cap. Cut the other dead wood. Retire Geary and Frawley.

Use the salary cap space to attract the right FA or RFA, Merrett or Kelly would be perfect. Our remaining list places taken by kids from the TAC or 20 / 21 year olds from the State leagues.

Welcome Paton and Gresham back into our best 22 on top of another dozen or so games into Bytel, Byrnes, King. Another pre season into Clark & Coffield.

2022 & 2023 may not be that bad afterall.

That’s 7 list spots....you sure you trust our recruiting to get that right????
What if Bombers said we are interested to play ball on Merret but only if JB is on the table ....would you do it?

You asked, I answered. I trust them to get some right, not all. Do you want to hold on to the dead wood, the expensive, non playing busts and only trade our good players for speculative draft picks?

Why would either club or player get involved in a trade scenario? Both are either FA or RFA. It would make more sense for one club to lobby for both. So, no, if I was St Kilda I would not waste time and energy dealing with Essendon, it never ends well & nor do we have to.

Feel free to outline your plan & how it will play out by trading out our better players. I don't want to rebuild & I'm confident our recent recruits did not come for a rebuild.

So you want to clear out deadwood (I agree) but not offer up any decent to potentially bring in quality or move up the draft list to get quality which most acknowledge we need?
Clearing deadwood is easy - improvement of the list requires some tougher decisions.
I think you feel we are as a list good enough to challenge now - I don’t agree.
My plan? Simple - offer up a quality player we can cover (not Steel/Marshall etc) who will want (but not deserve) big $$ to help us bring in quality (B King? going to require a bit....how do you pay for that...with D Kemp???) move deadwood on and put recruiting on notice to get it right.
I think it’s at least a 2 year turn around that then allows this core a shot at really challenging and not treading water 9-11.

Oh, when you put it like that. Sounds so simple. Remember Billings can walk wherever he likes unless the club match his salary. Ridding ourselves of dead & broken wood clears space. B. King is two years away. I would hope our salary cap is being structured accordingly.

I do believe our list is better than 9-11 when all are available. Without our two rucks, Paton & Gresham we are outside Top 8. With the salary going on Hannebery & Carlisle & others we cannot cover the losses or attract a Treloar type when available.

If you rate JB as low, I'm struggling as to why another AFL club would value someone who doesn't perform against quality sides (your words). What you are selling in benefits simply does not add up.

[Teflon]

Dynamics versus statics: it’s impossible to have a conversation around hypotheticals which is why this conversation (which happens every year) just goes around in circles, but unless the club gets a great offer which improves our list overall, I don't think we should trade out any of our untouchable players.

It looks like the club has struggled to trade its fringe players over the last few years (eg Newnes, Dunstan, Lonie, Webster etc) which says we don't have any real depth or depth that other clubs rate anyway.

The playing list can be improved through:

Drafting young talent include opportunistic swapping of picks
Drafting mature age players using late picks through the state leagues etc
Free agency
Organic and natural improvement of the playing list

All list management conversations in a fan website only have hypotheticals that’s a given
What can be discussed is strategy/approach
People keep saying our list will be improved by drafting and bringing in likes of B King ....but don’t want to part with anything of substance like they expect opponents to just bend over?
Anyhow I think it’s clear to get you have to give ...I’d have liked to have kept Acres ...wasn’t gonna happen..
I also think we need to realise we are essentially a poorly skilled side by foot and desperately need an A grade mid with run and foot skills to complement our wealth of inside mids
I think a handy on his day HFF who will command 700k a year is tradeable in that context.
But I get it...we get attached to our players and I think at times too much and that’s held this club back from team success.
I don’t expect we’ll trade Billings I expect list improvements at seasons end to be marginal and while we will at times play good footy next year we won’t really be a contenders imo

[SinCitySainter]

It is very simple, we either sign him now for 600 or we accept he leaves for a mid first round compo pick. No using him as trade bait he is a restricted free agent.
North will have a bucket load of cash to throw around and will probably be able to make huge offers for Billings, Merrett and Kelly. They would have been forced to push a number of players salaries into this year to reach the minimum salary cap given the huge clear out they made last year. I wouldn't mind betting that Stephenson's salary is virtually all in this year's cap along with a few other players. No, if they really offer a mill then we just need to accept that we get a mid first rounder for him because if we match and hope to force a trade we will have to pay him.

[shanegrambeau]

To reduce swelling and pain by 5% (when thinking about St Kilda’s recruitment) know that one Jack Newnes was dropped by Carlton this week.

[Sanctorum]

I'm fairly certain Billings won't be going anywhere - Lethlean indicated on the Gold Coast last week that negotiations for a new contract are well under way and he expects JB to sign.

Billings is a bit like Seb Ross, a Late Bloomer, but under good coaching by Ratten he is becoming a really important player in the team structure - he's invariably among the first 4 or 5 picked to play each week, and can be relied on to be a very consistent contributor, not a match winner, sure, but he reads the play really well and has excellent disposal skills.

We tend to rate Billings on the fact that he was draft pick 3 and expect him to be a champion player - he's far from the only early draft pick to under-achieve.

All in all I believe JB will continue to elevate his game this year and beyond and to be an integral part of the team heading into finals!

[whiskers3614]

To reduce swelling and pain by 5% (when thinking about St Kilda’s recruitment) know that one Jack Newnes was dropped by Carlton this week.

Guess we can enjoy his being dropped or Bruce having a quite on whilst paying Hannebery $30k for every game he watches!

[Teflon]

I'm fairly certain Billings won't be going anywhere - Lethlean indicated on the Gold Coast last week that negotiations for a new contract are well under way and he expects JB to sign.

Billings is a bit like Seb Ross, a Late Bloomer, but under good coaching by Ratten he is becoming a really important player in the team structure - he's invariably among the first 4 or 5 picked to play each week, and can be relied on to be a very consistent contributor, not a match winner, sure, but he reads the play really well and has excellent disposal skills.

We tend to rate Billings on the fact that he was draft pick 3 and expect him to be a champion player - he's far from the only early draft pick to under-achieve.

All in all I believe JB will continue to elevate his game this year and beyond and to be an integral part of the team heading into finals!

If the club keeps accepting top 3 draft picks becoming just handy players we are in all sorts. You want regular impact on matches at that pick range not nice players on their day.

I agree with whoever said it - anyone offers him 600+ he’s all theirs for a decent pick.

[magnifisaint]

I'm fairly certain Billings won't be going anywhere - Lethlean indicated on the Gold Coast last week that negotiations for a new contract are well under way and he expects JB to sign.

Billings is a bit like Seb Ross, a Late Bloomer, but under good coaching by Ratten he is becoming a really important player in the team structure - he's invariably among the first 4 or 5 picked to play each week, and can be relied on to be a very consistent contributor, not a match winner, sure, but he reads the play really well and has excellent disposal skills.

We tend to rate Billings on the fact that he was draft pick 3 and expect him to be a champion player - he's far from the only early draft pick to under-achieve.

All in all I believe JB will continue to elevate his game this year and beyond and to be an integral part of the team heading into finals!

If the club keeps accepting top 3 draft picks becoming just handy players we are in all sorts. You want regular impact on matches at that pick range not nice players on their day.

I agree with whoever said it - anyone offers him 600+ he’s all theirs for a decent pick.

It needs to be top 10

[Joffa Burns]

I'm fairly certain Billings won't be going anywhere - Lethlean indicated on the Gold Coast last week that negotiations for a new contract are well under way and he expects JB to sign.

Billings is a bit like Seb Ross, a Late Bloomer, but under good coaching by Ratten he is becoming a really important player in the team structure - he's invariably among the first 4 or 5 picked to play each week, and can be relied on to be a very consistent contributor, not a match winner, sure, but he reads the play really well and has excellent disposal skills.

We tend to rate Billings on the fact that he was draft pick 3 and expect him to be a champion player - he's far from the only early draft pick to under-achieve.

All in all I believe JB will continue to elevate his game this year and beyond and to be an integral part of the team heading into finals!

If the club keeps accepting top 3 draft picks becoming just handy players we are in all sorts. You want regular impact on matches at that pick range not nice players on their day.

I agree with whoever said it - anyone offers him 600+ he’s all theirs for a decent pick.

It needs to be top 10

I would prefer to keep Billings, however if North pay overs and it means a top 5 compensation pick I'd reluctantly agree.

We could take the compo pick to the draft & trade our first pick with another club for a first rounder for the following year.

If we are serious about Ben King one would guess we will need two picks below #15.