Will changes be significant ?

[older saint]

It seems up until now the match committee have danced around the outside of tough decisions and changes after weak performances. We have seem the usual suspects ( many who did deserve dropping) such as McKenan, Lonie, Long, Bytel, Dunstan rotated through the reserves.

Surely after what to me was probably the most pitaful performance I have seen in some time ( missed the Essendon game) this weeks decisions need to be based on those who have now continually not performaned when we lose - the down hill skiers .

We play North , not a side blessed with big forwards - Out Frawley in Highmore (who IMO shouldn't have been dropped)

Hill - sorry can't only be good when we play well , a run at Sandy will not hurt and can get the ball and some confidence in performing. You are too good for this but just need a circuit breaker. In Connolly , been solid in the 2's and deserves a run at it.

Butler - tough gig in our forward line at the moment but out of Higgins and Lonie you are 3rd at the moment on form . In Wood and allow him to play in the role he was recruited for 3rd leading/ hit up forward with Membrey and King.

Bytel - wont hurt for a rest here and Dunstan must be given a game or there is no selection integrity. Play him in the middle, or give him a role to go with Cunnington ( surely will be fast enough for that) .

McKernan - actually thought wasnt terrible but where do you play him if Wood comes in ? McKenzie in , not the most skilled player but will run, - keep him out of defence and can contribute.

B: Webster, Howard, Geary
Hb: Highmore, Wilkie, Sinclair
C: Brynes, Ross, Battle
HF: Billings, Membrey, Wood
F: Lonie, King, Higgins
Foll: Ryder, Steele, Crouch,
Int: Clarke, Dunstan, McKenzie, Conolly
Sub: Joyce,

[saintbob]

I don’t believe they will be as I doubt Ratten would be willing to upset the players, but if he had balls he’d make quite a few

[The_Dud]

I assume the usuals will cop it and the untouchables will remain untouched, but I hope I’m wrong.

[Freebird]

The only players to come in are failures of the past.

Remember when we were known as Carlton then Hawthorn seconds...our recent drafting has been reminiscent of this era setting us back for a few years. We need young players to develop.

We never learn. Quick fixes like drafting players not wanted by other clubs will set us back years. Now we have no developing youth

[saynta]

Reading between the lines and some press reports, looks like the B's will cop it in the neck.

Battle, Bytel and Butler, for starters anyway. Frawley and Gears should go as well

Replacements. Mckenzie, Joyce, Dunstan, Connelly and Highmore.

The side wouldn't be losing much if anything with those changes and a couple of young ones would gain some valuable experience.

Watching the Sandy game, Dunstan really is a class above those VFL footballers.

Coffield and Long should serve a bit more penance time too, so they stay in the VFL for now .IMHFO

Fumble bum might make way for Hunter but that guy has a lot less football ability than the guy he would be replacing.

[asiu]

i’d send em back out ... unchanged

and say ... Fix it.

[sks023]

You would think the number 7 will get a run for Indigenous round

[asiu]

like matty parker last year
in his families designed jumper ?

i’d still send em out unchanged

[asiu]

FIX IT
or there IS gunna be some fuckoff

the coach may as well lay down the law
of ... cause ‘n effect

[spert]

Too many heart to heart talks and serious looks after our floggings. Changes this week need to be symbolic- doesn't matter where you are in the pecking order. Those who put in a weak half-ar$ed performance get dropped and those who played well at Sandy come in.

[Beno88]

i’d send em back out ... unchanged

and say ... Fix it.

It's always interesting to see how clubs respond after a result like this.

First thought I had after Saturday night was "there's yet another 100+ point loss to add to the list", immediately thinking back to 1985, when we lost the first three games by over 100, with another to follow in Round 7. But since then they’ve actually been quite rare.

Saturday was only the 7th time since that 1985 season that we’ve lost by over 100 points. That got me thinking, how have we responded on each previous occasion?

Only twice have we responded with a win. There’s been the infamous Sydney “nil-all” draw. And three losses, none by more than 32 pts, but all against teams placed 13th or lower.

The most embarrassing response came in 1995, when we lost to Essendon by 116 points, then came out an lost to lowly Fitzroy in what would be their last ever win over a Victorian club. But we did go 8-8 from there and beat 3 of the top four.

Interestingly, but not surprisingly, 3 of our 100+ losses in last 35 years have come at Kardinia Park, while Saturday night was our first ever 100+ loss at Docklands. Our previous worst was 99 pts vs Essendon in 2002.

Here's all of our 100+ points losses from 1986 onwards, and the following result.

1989 – R7 Lost to Geelong by 119, R8 beat North Melbourne (5th) by 3.

1995 – R5 Lost to Essendon by 116, R6 lost to Fitzroy (15th) by 11.

2002 -R4 Lost to Geelong by 122, R5 drew with Sydney (8th).

2013 – R18 Lost to Geelong by 101, R19 lost to Brisbane (13th) by 31.

2014 – R7 Lost to Hawthorn by 145, R8 lost to Carlton (16th) by 32.

2016 – R8 Lost to West Coast by 103, R9 beat Essendon (17th) by 46.

2021 - R10 Lost to Bulldogs by 111, R11......? North Melbourne (18th).

But in terms of an overall response....in our entire history we have never gone on to play finals after losing by 100+ points.

More concerningly, we've never made the finals the season AFTER losing a game by 100+ pts.

[saintsRrising]

Will changes be significant ?

Hard to imagine significant when there is so little in the reserves that has shown much of late. Dunstan flying at Sandy, but not so much when he was promoted.

Even Coffield who was dropped has been poor.

So what will they do? Perhaps have a look at some who have not yet played. Connolly probably the most deserving.

Hunter for McKernan (not sure that helps).

They may play Wood against his old team, but he has shown nothing in the seniors this year.

[freely]

Thing is though, they don't know each other's game - the players that get stuck in the twos don't come in to replace someone and play a role while they get 'bedded down'. They come in and are expected to save the day!

[freely]

Thing is though, they don't know each other's game - the players that get stuck in the twos don't come in to replace someone and play a role while they get 'bedded down'. They come in and are expected to save the day!

[spert]

I think there's something else going on down at Moorabbin and I reckon it's between coach and players.

[footynut]

Id go something like this....

FB: Highmore Howard Webster

HB: Hill Battle Sinclair

C: Billings Crouch Connolly

HF: Byrnes King Clark

FF: Coffield Clavarino Membrey

R: Ryder Steele Higgins

INT: Bytel Dunstan Ross Wood

Despite posting this team, I struggled selecting a midfield that wasn't one paced and could still win the ball, and a forward line with a difference.
Now i realise I've thrown Clavarino in his first game, maybe Battle should play go forward & Clav should be back. And Bytel Dunstan Ross is like having 3 of the same.

[WellardSaint]

I think there's something else going on down at Moorabbin and I reckon it's between coach and players.

I recall the rumours from years ago, when the players were in three distinct groups. There were the stars, the middle rung, and the fringe. They really didn't get on so well, and it showed.

We've got the same vibe.
There's the older heads that have been there a while, Skunk, JWeb (these 2 are camping buddies), and Billings, Ross, Gresh...these types.
Then there's the younguns, Coff, Clark, Paton, B1 n B2, Clav, etc.
Then the outsiders. 2 types- The imports- Howard, Butler the prostate doctor, Higgo, Frawley, Butter Fingers McKernan.
Then we have the flies in the ointment- Dan '2 weeks' and Benny Hill. These guys- nobody wants to hang out with them. I reckon nobody wants to sit next to them on a bus or plane.

The older heads aren't happy that Savage got cut when he has been part of the club for years.
Most of the squad is unhappy with Hill n Hannas getting all the $$ but doing SFA.
The youngies sort of stick with each other.
The imports are viewed with a bit of unrest cos they're seen as mercenary

[Scollop]

Reading between the lines and some press reports, looks like the B's will cop it in the neck.

Battle, Bytel and Butler, for starters anyway. Frawley and Gears should go as well

Replacements. Mckenzie, Joyce, Dunstan, Connelly and Highmore.

The side wouldn't be losing much if anything with those changes and a couple of young ones would gain some valuable experience.

Watching the Sandy game, Dunstan really is a class above those VFL footballers.

Coffield and Long should serve a bit more penance time too, so they stay in the VFL for now .IMHFO

Fumble bum might make way for Hunter but that guy has a lot less football ability than the guy he would be replacing.

We need Frawley on that brut Zurhaar that plays forward. Not sure on Gears and what role he should play.

Our midfield is the main problem at the moment. We don’t have breakaway speed with Jones and Gresh injured so we just need guys who can handle the footy cleanly and win the contests. I reckon give Dunny a run in there and I’d retain both Battle and Bytel and give them licence to hunt the footy.

I’d also have Coff and Long straight in. I would not play ‘fumble bum’ ever again in the seniors. Maybe Battle can fill in on Ruck duties or try Longy like the Tigers have Marlion Pickett.

[Scollop]

I think there's something else going on down at Moorabbin and I reckon it's between coach and players.

I recall the rumours from years ago, when the players were in three distinct groups. There were the stars, the middle rung, and the fringe. They really didn't get on so well, and it showed.

We've got the same vibe.
There's the older heads that have been there a while, Skunk, JWeb (these 2 are camping buddies), and Billings, Ross, Gresh...these types.
Then there's the younguns, Coff, Clark, Paton, B1 n B2, Clav, etc.
Then the outsiders. 2 types- The imports- Howard, Butler the prostate doctor, Higgo, Frawley, Butter Fingers McKernan.
Then we have the flies in the ointment- Dan '2 weeks' and Benny Hill. These guys- nobody wants to hang out with them. I reckon nobody wants to sit next to them on a bus or plane.

The older heads aren't happy that Savage got cut when he has been part of the club for years.
Most of the squad is unhappy with Hill n Hannas getting all the $$ but doing SFA.
The youngies sort of stick with each other.
The imports are viewed with a bit of unrest cos they're seen as mercenary

Good post. Not sure how much of it is opinion and how much is fact, but it makes sense because we’ve seen it with many squads over the years and not just at St Kilda. It takes time for teams to gell and for individuals to play for one another and stand up for each other and sacrifice their game (or literally sacrifice their body) for the sake of the team.

Last year was like a training camp and everyone was kept tight with strict rules and under the eyes and guidance of the leaders and under the senior coach at all times. Ratts did a wonderful job last year but now that they are free and they have more time on their hands and they are not living with each other 24/7 perhaps the individuals are overtaking the team mentality.

[Yorkeys]

Yes they will. For the players dropped it is public blame. For the Football department it is their credibility. The balance they strike will be instructive.

Several jobs and reputations on the line. We are getting close to a tipping point.

My interest is in how it is managed or whether Leathlean and Ratts duck hard decisions and thereby lose control of events. If the Footy Dept. does not get this right I think the President will be hands on against his preference and the Footy Department will not like it. Lets see if they are up to it. My guess : minimum of 3 omissions.

The fact it is North means they can be bolder than normal risk averse approach. Use what you have smarter the President said. I wonder if Footy Dept. heard.

[freely]

If we lose to North they will be.

[asiu]

yes

mmm

that would be ... significant

one would think



north will be up and about

[WellardSaint]

Scollop added some really important stuff to my post about discord.
All of what I wrote was just IMHO, just the vibe.
He added the thing about the hub.

100% agree about the 'training camp' because I've seen similar.
I worked for Defence Dept in Melb for a long time, as one of many civilians, in an office, with Army guys n gals (50/50 mix of Army/civvy)

On 3 occasions, ~20-30 of us office workers (both Army/civvy) went to Pucka and Portsea for a week, living in tents, among the trees, camping. They called it a team building exercise, as well as a refresher for the Army guys.
Divided into separate groups for cooking, cleaning, packing up camp and relocating to different bush site.
Every couple of days, the teams changed roles, as well as changing team leaders.
There was one civvy called Julie who was a 'Karen' type in the office, she hated everyone and we all hated her.
But on these camps, she mellowed and the rest of us actually warmed to her.

At the end, we all piled into the back of the Merc-Benz Unimogs and other trucks, for return to Melbourne.
The tone changed, as we all went quiet and spoke little, thinking of the return to families n normal work.
Julie was sitting on her own with nobody really talking to her much.

One of the sergeants said quietly that when we get back, it's gonna be 'back to normal' and we knew what he meant.
Sorry for the rant but it's weird how our behaviours changed at the camps.

[saynta]

Scollop added some really important stuff to my post about discord.
All of what I wrote was just IMHO, just the vibe.
He added the thing about the hub.

100% agree about the 'training camp' because I've seen similar.
I worked for Defence Dept in Melb for a long time, as one of many civilians, in an office, with Army guys n gals (50/50 mix of Army/civvy)

On 3 occasions, ~20-30 of us office workers (both Army/civvy) went to Pucka and Portsea for a week, living in tents, among the trees, camping. They called it a team building exercise, as well as a refresher for the Army guys.
Divided into separate groups for cooking, cleaning, packing up camp and relocating to different bush site.
Every couple of days, the teams changed roles, as well as changing team leaders.
There was one civvy called Julie who was a 'Karen' type in the office, she hated everyone and we all hated her.
But on these camps, she mellowed and the rest of us actually warmed to her.

At the end, we all piled into the back of the Merc-Benz Unimogs and other trucks, for return to Melbourne.
The tone changed, as we all went quiet and spoke little, thinking of the return to families n normal work.
Julie was sitting on her own with nobody really talking to her much.

One of the sergeants said quietly that when we get back, it's gonna be 'back to normal' and we knew what he meant.
Sorry for the rant but it's weird how our behaviours changed at the camps.

I have been to Pucka, more than once as I was in the cadets at school.

You reminded me of that old joke where there was a young guy and a young girl hitch hiking on a road out of Melbourne when a guy in an old truck pulled up at the side of the road and called out to the couple" Are you going to pucka? " Whereupon the young guy called out in reply, "No mister, She's my sister."

[WellardSaint]

Saynta

I'd never been camping before that, and had never wanted to.
But it was actually a lot of fun, sleeping under a 'hootchie' in the middle of winter

Army rations are all in tins, and having constipation for 5 days wasn't nice
I found out you could go 5 days without a shower quite easily.
On the last day, did the obstacle course and being fully caked in mud, etc, we returned to the barracks for a much needed first shower in 5 days.
The ladies showered first, and used up ALL the hot water getting mud outta the long hair.

Having a cold shower in winter was something done by visiting teams at Moorabbin for decades