Junction Oval in funding crisis.

[B.M]

Love the StK FC

Don’t really care for the suburb.

Don’t like Moorabbin much either, it’s in the middle of nothing. It’s not bayside, it’s not near anything really?!

Do like the training facility, the ground is s***, but they’re fixing that. As a ground for watching footy now, it’s a bit soulless… without a grand stand. You just have to stand and look over the top of people.

Everyone has their preferences

[amusingname]

As I have asked every time this topic was raised in the past few years, usually by Dave McNamara, I will ask again now. Why would the club consider pouring money into a ground with the aim of playing a game to draw 15,000 fans max, when the AFL have expressly stated they have no interest in scheduling any games elsewhere in Melbourne than the MCG and the ground that they own, Marvel Stadium?

I also can’t see a huge amount of tourists really embracing the idea of a cold Melbourne day in a very open old school ground regardless of how ‘cool’ people see the suburb of St Kilda being!

Hi AM.

The figures, rationale, etc, are all in the Homeward Bound thread.
http://saintsational.net/viewtopic.php? ... start=1500

But for starters...

Under the old Dockedlands deal:
We got a crowd of 26,000 against the Swines. We paid Dockedland $73K(!)

The Hillbillies make $820K profit per home game.

Average crowd... yep... 26,000.

A crowd of 15,000 at the JO would be profitable.

And like the Hillbillies, we'd win most of them.

That would mean we'd play finals more often.

That would mean more sponsorship $$$.

And would mean we'd be a destination club. (The likes of Dangerfield and Cameron would come to us and accept unders, as they did to go to Kardinia Park.)

Dave, I am well aware of what you posted numerous times in that thread. What I am asking, and what I asked in that same thread and others like it, is why would the club sink money and time into a boutique ground, especially when we now have a new training base built in moorabbin, when the AFL has expressly said they have no plans or need/want to have games played at any other ground in Melbourne? The club does not do the fixturing, so saying we could make money at junction oval is not true when the league would not fixture games there.

[B.M]

It’s a district cricket ground

[Winmar7]

Where will people park for games in St Kilda? There is nowhere close to the JO with enough time for free parking, and do you think the council will want cars ripping up the lovely parkland?

There is poor public transport access to St Kilda. Eg. a family on the Frankston line have to combine trains and trams, and it will be too much of a hassle. Docklands is far easier.

I would love to see games at JO, as for me it's a short walk down there, but just don't see it happening...

[shanegrambeau]

Where will people park for games in St Kilda? There is nowhere close to the JO with enough time for free parking, and do you think the council will want cars ripping up the lovely parkland?

There is poor public transport access to St Kilda. Eg. a family on the Frankston line have to combine trains and trams, and it will be too much of a hassle. Docklands is far easier.

I would love to see games at JO, as for me it's a short walk down there, but just don't see it happening...

So you are saying St Kilda is a hard place to get to?


St Kilda had a total of 2.0 million visitors in the year ending March 2019. There were 1.1 million domestic visitors and 884,400 international visitors.

Compare to Moorabbin.

That is your future!
..or Tasmania?

[saynta]

Where will people park for games in St Kilda? There is nowhere close to the JO with enough time for free parking, and do you think the council will want cars ripping up the lovely parkland?

There is poor public transport access to St Kilda. Eg. a family on the Frankston line have to combine trains and trams, and it will be too much of a hassle. Docklands is far easier.

I would love to see games at JO, as for me it's a short walk down there, but just don't see it happening...

So you are saying St Kilda is a hard place to get to?

St Kilda had a total of 2.0 million visitors in the year ending March 2019. There were 1.1 million domestic visitors and 884,400 international visitors.

Compare to Moorabbin.

That is your future!
..or Tasmania?

Were you standing in Fitzroy street with an abacus counting them?

[amusingname]

Where will people park for games in St Kilda? There is nowhere close to the JO with enough time for free parking, and do you think the council will want cars ripping up the lovely parkland?

There is poor public transport access to St Kilda. Eg. a family on the Frankston line have to combine trains and trams, and it will be too much of a hassle. Docklands is far easier.

I would love to see games at JO, as for me it's a short walk down there, but just don't see it happening...

So you are saying St Kilda is a hard place to get to?


St Kilda had a total of 2.0 million visitors in the year ending March 2019. There were 1.1 million domestic visitors and 884,400 international visitors.

Compare to Moorabbin.

That is your future!
..or Tasmania?

Did you check the visitors to the docklands/CBD area? Because that is the actual comparison as that’s where we play.

[shanegrambeau]

Where will people park for games in St Kilda? There is nowhere close to the JO with enough time for free parking, and do you think the council will want cars ripping up the lovely parkland?

There is poor public transport access to St Kilda. Eg. a family on the Frankston line have to combine trains and trams, and it will be too much of a hassle. Docklands is far easier.

I would love to see games at JO, as for me it's a short walk down there, but just don't see it happening...

So you are saying St Kilda is a hard place to get to?


St Kilda had a total of 2.0 million visitors in the year ending March 2019. There were 1.1 million domestic visitors and 884,400 international visitors.

Compare to Moorabbin.

That is your future!
..or Tasmania?

Did you check the visitors to the docklands/CBD area? Because that is the actual comparison as that’s where we play.

No, I didn't check Docklands..

Yes, we play there as do other clubs. It is as personal as a taxi cab compared to your own car and as advantageous as racing that taxi at Bathurst, while Geelong can fine tune their own vehicle at The Cattery.

Docklands is pretty charmless and dull but it is superbly located for transport. I applaud the AFL for building it and it represents an impressive move away from surbuban car-oriented mentality that drove the move to Waverly...a reasonable idea in 1965 but not so in 1995. Moorabbin is still that Waverly mentality.

We need a base at St Kilda, in St Kilda! That is what I am saying.

We would play games at Docklands and for smaller crowds, interstate etc., at the JO.

Crowds will get smaller, not bigger as the years go by - but that is my opinion.

Those figures are not my opinion.

You can find them on the web.

By the way, 3 million people visited the entirety of Tasmania that same year, but it might be quite a drive for them to York Park in Launceston.

[B.M]

Docklands is obviously a better place to play

It’s obviously easy access… train to SC plus ground has parking

It holds 50 000

It’s under roof

I still don’t understand all the carry on about where we train?
Little importance to me
Rarely watch training. Few do.
As long as it’s good facilities who cares, it’s a place of work… not a residence or holiday destination.

I’m one of the few that didn’t care about Seaford. Facilities were better than Moorabbin, Ground far better!!!
I wouldn’t care if they trained in Moe?!

Having said that, glad we moved back to Moorabbin, only because of the newer facilities.

As far as Home Ground goes
It’s Docklands
Not Moorabbin

Moorabbin is a straining base.

Stk is a pain in the arse to get to if you live in the SE

Ok if you’re an overseas visitor, it’s just a tram. Overseas visitors have zero to do with footy anyway?!

[The Fireman]

The JO is the GO

[scuttleShake]

My 2 cents, the JO tourist approach would be great for us.

JO is right in the heart of one of Aussie's biggest backpacker districts. I lived there in my 20s (not long ago) and can tell you most of the brits are keen to check out this bizarre sport at least once. And the Irish to see how it compares to their own brand. Then there's the rest who've never heard of it but are told it's a "must" for the real Melbourne experience (most go to the G).
Play a small handful of games a year there, at the start of the season when the weather's still decent. Advertise through the hostels. Offer tourist-tailored memberships. Play on a Sunday arvo with not much else to do, It's only a short walk away so watch them (hopefully) pile in. And when they've seen enough, doesn't matter, they're gone in a week and the next batch can fill their seats.
The AFL wants to increase their overseas visibility well here's a way of doing it right? And watch our brand evolve with it too.

Not saying we have to be based there but gee I'd love to watch a couple a year where it all started. Marvel is a soulless concrete mausoleum. It was fun in the 00's when it was still novel (and we were s*** hot and could draw a crowd). But honestly the last 10 years it's been drab, and I've been going less every year.

[B.M]

Why would we cater to backpackers and tourists?!

They don’t give a fk about AFL or StK FC

They aren’t going to by memberships

They’re over here to get pissed and root as often as possible
They are not here to start supporting a foreign team in a strange game?!

We go to the Junction for a game
15k members won’t get in to see the game

[B.M]

Marvel Soulless

Mate
You must have missed the Game where Troy Schwarze kicked the bomb against Brisbane in 2004 - 2nd loudest roar I’ve heard in a stadium!!!
Or
The 2009 game vs Geelong? 52k screaming fans indoor!!!

I love watching footy at Marvel
Comfortable, nearly always a fast good standard game due to perfect conditions.

Better than being in the outer, standing watching footy at a suburban oval!!!

[scuttleShake]

They’re over here to get pissed and root as often as possible
They are not here to start supporting a foreign team in a strange game?!

They're here to get into the spirit of the city they're visiting. Come at the right time and that spirit is footy. I'm not making assumptions here, this is my own lived experience. Needs to be some activity after the drinking and rooting.
They are dead keen to go to the G (and get around the merch). This is a way to make it more accessible & targeted.

I'm not here to claim it's a dead set success waiting to happen, but given how much money AFLs pumped into NZ and China experiments you'd think that a couple games a year down the road would be at least be worth rolling the dice on.

[saynta]

Why would we cater to backpackers and tourists?!

They don’t give a fk about AFL or StK FC

They aren’t going to by memberships

They’re over here to get pissed and root as often as possible
They are not here to start supporting a foreign team in a strange game?!

We go to the Junction for a game
15k members won’t get in to see the game

Me? I don't even want the government to let them into the country in the first place and I definitely don't want to be mixing with the smelly unwashed at a footy game.

Unless we are playing the filth of course.

[shanegrambeau]

St Kilda is alive with people…walking people…itinerants…visitors…vagrants…tourists…people just living their lives. They didn’t move their for safety and security..they will join our club if it is based at the JO.

No one will join based at Moorabbin except women joining for our great and upcoming Women’s team. They will also join if we are at the JO…or why not both Moorabbin and the JO! I’m serious. We are as big as Manchester United or City, simply because of our name!

Never mind you can’t park your car or it’s too hard for you…I don’t care.. nobody cares about us..in so far as we can’t drive. Do you realise we may be located in Tassie!

St Kilda should be in St Kilda…simple…keep it simple…play games at Colonial .. Fair enough….but be in St Kilda.

My Dad came to St Kilda in 1956 from Wellington New Zealand after having been born, raised and ‘grown up’ in Capricorn Queensland. He dug the vibe in St Kilda ..and he started to follow St Kilda. That’s how I got infected. No one will get infected …much…in Moorabbin and even if every one in Moorabbin is stricken with St Kilda love…it won’t be much..compared to what could happen at St Kilda….but let me add, I am glad we went back there from Seaford.

To BM, you couldn’t give a damn if we were based at Moe? Precisely. Of course…why should you…? Imagine living in St Kilda in your 20s, betting off the light rail next to the J7 cation and St Kilda is right there! In St Kilda!

[realdeal]

My 2 cents, the JO tourist approach would be great for us.

JO is right in the heart of one of Aussie's biggest backpacker districts. I lived there in my 20s (not long ago) and can tell you most of the brits are keen to check out this bizarre sport at least once. And the Irish to see how it compares to their own brand. Then there's the rest who've never heard of it but are told it's a "must" for the real Melbourne experience (most go to the G).
Play a small handful of games a year there, at the start of the season when the weather's still decent. Advertise through the hostels. Offer tourist-tailored memberships. Play on a Sunday arvo with not much else to do, It's only a short walk away so watch them (hopefully) pile in. And when they've seen enough, doesn't matter, they're gone in a week and the next batch can fill their seats.
The AFL wants to increase their overseas visibility well here's a way of doing it right? And watch our brand evolve with it too.

Not saying we have to be based there but gee I'd love to watch a couple a year where it all started. Marvel is a soulless concrete mausoleum. It was fun in the 00's when it was still novel (and we were s*** hot and could draw a crowd). But honestly the last 10 years it's been drab, and I've been going less every year.

Nothing is stopping the club from starting this initiative regardless... just jump on the lightrail to Docklands..

And something a bit random and to get a bit of Saints in St.Kilda i reckon local residents should get some kind of deal or special item to encourage locals..

[Wayne42]

If you want to see the Saints play at the Junction Oval you'll have to borrow HG Wells' time machine.

[saynta]

If you want to see the Saints play at the Junction Oval you'll have to borrow HG Wells' time machine.

[Trev from the Bush]

Bill Murray wakes up as the clock radio ticks over to 6:00 AM and Sonny and Cher are in full voice. Again.

We have been here many times before. Same, boring people posting the same, boring stuff ignoring the same, boring facts. All stuck in the same, goring groove in what must be their boring lives. Go back to sleep and pray another song is plaing when the alarm goes off.

[saynta]

Bill Murray wakes up as the clock radio ticks over to 6:00 AM and Sonny and Cher are in full voice. Again.

We have been here many times before. Same, boring people posting the same, boring stuff ignoring the same, boring facts. All stuck in the same, goring groove in what must be their boring lives. Go back to sleep and pray another song is plaing when the alarm goes off.

[B.M]

Question

Is AFL played on any ground that has a centre wicket area?

Surely it’s a concussion issue???

[shanegrambeau]

Question

Is AFL played on any ground that has a centre wicket area?

Surely it’s a concussion issue???

It's an interesting and hot topic.

Adelaide Oval went to drop in pitches in 2013
Perth is Drop in
MCG Drop in

SCG is in the middle of a debate...
Gabba too...

Cricket authorities like the old pitch..
Footy tries to bully cricket into using Drop ins.

Drop ins are winning the battle.

https://www.cricket365.com/top-story/wh ... p-pitches/

It goes to the heart of tradition/localities and all that stuff. Drop ins will win eventually.

Even the traditional grounds like Lords and the Oval etc.. are considering them.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/top- ... -2r3hcxzf5

Needless to say, Cricket Victoria is broke, no one goes to Shield games and the JO is a massive drain on their pockets.

So, they will feel under siege and don't have money for drop ins, nor do they want them....They want JO to remain an empty, unused windswept lawn with a beautiful lawn, and perfect cricket conditions...

I love cricket..it is the game I had some talent in and love watching it.

St Kilda should be based in St Kilda...

[saynta]

WHY? Is Collingwood based in Collingwood?

[Saint 58]

My opinion ...

VERY long term - the future for our club is very bleak:
- Too many teams in Melbourne
- Financially not great
- Historically unsuccessful
- We are or will be a target (along with Nth, WB, Melb)
- (55,000+ members is a positive)

If we could turn the JO into something like what the Cats have, (& eventually into what WC have):
- 40,000 capacity stadium (eventually 60,000 capacity)
- 95% Saints supporters at home games
- winning most of our home games
- huge advantage to play finals most years
- more free agents coming to us
- more sponsorship $$

Forget about where would the $$ would come from, getting to the ground, etc.

Note:
Prahran Station, Windsor Station, trams lines, new Anzac Station, bus services
Fxxxing walk like we used to or still do to get to the MCG & other grounds
Moorabbin would still be used, maybe becoming the AFLW home ground

Think about this from the club future point of view, not from your personal point of view ...

Would you say yes or would you say no ?