Are We The Real Deal?

[damienc]

It seems an absurd question to be asking in round 4 of the competition but here we are.

Seriously, I do not understand our footy team. At all.

We are putrid for two and half quarters and then sensational.

How can this be ? It doesn't make sense. Any team that can turn a 25 point deficit into a 33 point victory and kick 10 unanswered goals has to be the real deal?

But there is a question mark. Always a question mark with this team.

The Tigers had a few good ones missing but so did the Saints. Even so, Richmond was all over us and then they weren't.

It is like when we click we really click. We are virtually unstoppable. Our midfield goes from a bunch of plodders to thoroughbred racehorses.

And who says we can't kick goals? We can do anything if we want to. That's what I don't understand. We proved it a bit against the Dockers and for longer against the Tiges.

So why can't we play like that all the time? Like for 4 quarters? Why indeed.

No more excuses. Not after that. The benchmark was set by the players themselves.

Not often we win a Maddie's match.

But this is a schizophrenic footy club.

Who knows what team will turn up next week.

[saynta]

Was important to win. To win a Maddie's match even more so.

[bigcarl]

Good win, but we are not even in the eight yet.

Let’s see what happens, but it is a useful start by a scrapped-together moneyball team with battlers on every line

[Impatient Sainter]

Not yet - one week at a time!

[damienc]

Was important to win. To win a Maddie's match even more so.

Sure. But it was like there were two st kilda footy teams. The one before half time and the one after. And each bears little to no resemblance to the other.

It's crazy.

[cwrcyn]

We were certainly not putrid in the first half. Apart from the first minute, we were equal to them. We were poor for 10 minutes of the third quarter. That's it.

[spert]

Got to fix up the first quarters where we still don't defend well enough at centre bounces- we fixed it a bit in the second half yesterday, but it's still a structural thing that the coaches need to work on. Against Freo, we really only got into it when Darcy went off injured, as he was giving them drive, then yesterday it was looking to swing a bit Richmond's way until Grimes went off, which loosened up their backline and King got into it. We need the KPPs to really get into it early, keep Paddy as uninjured as possible, then we will have a good chance of getting into the eight. Anything's possible, but there's more work to do.

[Yorkeys]

We are ok. Richmond were very good for a long time but we hung in, took chances and then ran all over them. It was an excellent performance because it was a grind for a long time and a comeback win. Not many of those in the last 10 years. Neither side gave quarter. Exhibit A = Jack Higgins.

I wonder if some of the criticism here of individuals in our team, including Brad (but putting aside that which is nonsense about Brad - the motivation of which can only be guessed at) might not take into account the quality of the opposition players, opposition coaching, the nature of team sport and how difficult and random contested, congested play can be.

I was impressed with Richmond. They seem very fast, skilled, well drilled and have some big big units. A lot are finals hardened and premiership players with a multi premiership coach. Getting ex- Saint Parker to kick 3 goals is a pretty good coaching effort and he seems a different type/better player for Richmond (yes?)

We did ok. Got the deal done.

[saintsRrising]

Our midfield engine is probably the reason. It too often splutters. Yesterday in the second half it became a well-tuned V8.


We have to win against teams with very good midfields to be a finalist, and especially to be a contender.

Tigers midfield is now one of the worst in the AFL. Freo's that we played against was undermanned and the Pie's mids only rates as fair.


Our mids as a unit remains my main concern. I think that in all other positions that we are quite well balanced.


On the promising side yesterday I thought that was Crouch's best game for us in terms of how he played, his ball-use and his effect on the game. Plus Gresham looked very good as a mid yesterday. Paddy make a huge difference to our mids. It is not just his tapwork either, but all his second efforts too.

At present we do not bat deep enough in our engine room. We really need Jones and Clark both back fit and firing to provide versatility and to spread the load.

[Vortex]

I thought this was another SunnyErnie thread.

What sRs said.

The second half was as a result of our midfield snorting something at half time.

I the real test would be against a side like Melbourne or Dogs and with all our first picked midfielders available otherwise any discussion about us being the real deal is crazy talk.

As a side note look how much better our forward line looks when the midfield gets its shyte together.

[older saint]

Not yet but one positive is every game we have come back from multiple goals down, the fact we have got there though is a concern.

I said to my son at the half the first side to play any defence will win the game and i felt we started to get on top in that area in the 3rd - we were able to stop Lynch getting one on one contests and our smalls defensively , after getting pants pulled down in the first half responded at ground level.

Some way to go but need to beat the teams which may end up in the same bracket as us. Hawthorn is a must win game as despite their fresh start i cant see them finishing in the top 2./3rds

[Vortex]

We need to be 4 wins from the first 6 games as an absolute minimum to get a feel for our finals potential in 2022 but we should probably be 5 from 6 based on who we play.

[bangaulegend]

IMO were not there yet but the way we played in the second half is the type of footy we have to produce to for 4 quarters week in week out .If we can do that then we would be the real deal but is it sustainable ? I'm not sure it is ATM we play a good quarter here & there but find it difficult to maintain the rage. Lets hope Sunday was a turning point I guess it's watch this space.

[samoht]

There are 3 runners/playmakers that warrant a special mention.

Sinclair we already know about. He's a star, but alongside him:

Mason Wood I'm convinced is the real deal ... just needs to remain injury free. Combines well with other runners/playmakers.
He was not being wasted in the forward line. I'm glad it's finally dawned on BR to play him around the ground.

Same with McKenzie (he too is the real deal) - he provides valuable run and links up well with his accurate left foot.

Gresh - still rushes a lot of his kicks, but he was great in getting the ball moving our way and in clearance situations with his zip and getting to the ball first.

Richmond used the ball more efficiently - but we made up for this with more run and more metres gained. Especially in the second half.
Stamina comes into it too ... Sinclair, Wood and McKenzie can run all day - and still had plenty of run left in the second half.

[Sanctorum]

Despite the incredible turnaround in the 2nd half of the 3rd quarter and the 10 -3 goals to win by 33, it's a bit too soon to claim that this team is the real deal.

Hawthorn will not be easy as they demonstrated yesterday when they came back from a huge deficit to lose by just a point, and Carlton have been superb so far with an elite midfield and across the board....

All the praise from the media has been about Max King kicking 4 in the last quarter, but failed to mention this only came about because the rucks and mids started to win all the takeaways and delivered the ball to Maxy who no longer had Grimes breathing down his neck. No disrespect to Max btw because he led well, took some phenomenal marks and had his kicking boots on. He's building an impressive physique and justifies all the predictions that he will be our (and AFL's) next superstar!

But yes, I'm keeping the lid on right now and won't relax until our team wins more consistently.

[meher baba]

If the question is "can we win a premiership with this list?", I think the answer remains no. However, as I posted a few days ago, I do think that Ratten - who I seem to rate much more highly as a coach than do most posters on here - is capable of once again taking this list into the finals and possiblly beyond the first week. That is, if we don't suffer serious injuries to key players - particularly Ryder - and have a bit of luck in key matches.

Our midfield performed as well yesterday as we could possibly have hoped. But I doubt it's even in the top 8 of midfields in the comp, although perhaps it would scrape in with Jones back and playing at his best. And our defence, while better than it was a few years back, isn't as good as a number of other teams. I reckon our forward line is good enough, but can we get enough quality ball to them to beat the likes of Melbourne or the Bulldogs (or, for that matter, Brisbane, who are looking extremely good at the moment: a tribute to that club's quiet but persistent effort to rebuild their list).

IMO the key to a future premiership remains that of finding or developing one or two more top quality midfielders, particularly one who is a serious threat inside the forward 50. A really good big defender might help as well, along with a quality successor to Ryder (although, who knows, he might be persuaded to go a bit longer, like the Madden brothers). We don't need any more forwards IMO: if was ever true that the club was pursuing Ben King, I'm glad that this possibility seems to have been taken out of their hands (although I can certainly see the potential value in terms of marketing).

[D.B.Cooper]

Was important to win. To win a Maddie's match even more so.

Sure. But it was like there were two st kilda footy teams. The one before half time and the one after. And each bears little to no resemblance to the other.

It's crazy.

Interesting point and it seems to be across the competition at the moment.

I watched Collingwood dominate Geelong in the third 1/4 drilling 9 unanswered goals and looking like the 2022 premiers, then after the break the Cats fire back and the momentum swung totally and they killed the last 1/4.

Hawthorn were 40 points (or something like that) down to Carlton then responded and hit the lead.

Must admit I was very worried at the one minute mark of the match V Richmond.

[remboy]

Was important to win. To win a Maddie's match even more so.

Sure. But it was like there were two st kilda footy teams. The one before half time and the one after. And each bears little to no resemblance to the other.

It's crazy.

Interesting point and it seems to be across the competition at the moment.

I watched Collingwood dominate Geelong in the third 1/4 drilling 9 unanswered goals and looking like the 2022 premiers, then after the break the Cats fire back and the momentum swung totally and they killed the last 1/4.

Hawthorn were 40 points (or something like that) down to Carlton then responded and hit the lead.

Must admit I was very worried at the one minute mark of the match V Richmond.

I agree, it’s not just us. There are games each week where a team will kill 6 or 7 goals in a row then the momentum will change and the opposition do the same. It’s just a matter of making the most of your chances when you get the momentum and limiting your opposition when they’ve got it.

[D.B.Cooper]

Was important to win. To win a Maddie's match even more so.

Sure. But it was like there were two st kilda footy teams. The one before half time and the one after. And each bears little to no resemblance to the other.

It's crazy.

Interesting point and it seems to be across the competition at the moment.

I watched Collingwood dominate Geelong in the third 1/4 drilling 9 unanswered goals and looking like the 2022 premiers, then after the break the Cats fire back and the momentum swung totally and they killed the last 1/4.

Hawthorn were 40 points (or something like that) down to Carlton then responded and hit the lead.

Must admit I was very worried at the one minute mark of the match V Richmond.

I agree, it’s not just us. There are games each week where a team will kill 6 or 7 goals in a row then the momentum will change and the opposition do the same. It’s just a matter of making the most of your chances when you get the momentum and limiting your opposition when they’ve got it.

The only thing that seems to halt the momentum run is a break in quarters.
Coaches and players don't seem to be able top do anything once a team has a momentum run on.
I wonder if we'll see someone go down and take a long injury ride as a tactic to slow momentum.

[remboy]

Was important to win. To win a Maddie's match even more so.

Sure. But it was like there were two st kilda footy teams. The one before half time and the one after. And each bears little to no resemblance to the other.

It's crazy.

Interesting point and it seems to be across the competition at the moment.

I watched Collingwood dominate Geelong in the third 1/4 drilling 9 unanswered goals and looking like the 2022 premiers, then after the break the Cats fire back and the momentum swung totally and they killed the last 1/4.

Hawthorn were 40 points (or something like that) down to Carlton then responded and hit the lead.

Must admit I was very worried at the one minute mark of the match V Richmond.

I agree, it’s not just us. There are games each week where a team will kill 6 or 7 goals in a row then the momentum will change and the opposition do the same. It’s just a matter of making the most of your chances when you get the momentum and limiting your opposition when they’ve got it.

The only thing that seems to halt the momentum run is a break in quarters.
Coaches and players don't seem to be able top do anything once a team has a momentum run on.
I wonder if we'll see someone go down and take a long injury ride as a tactic to slow momentum.

Some teams just run out of steam. We started our run with the last three goals o& the third quarter. The reduced rotations could be having an affect on a teams ability to sustain the momentum.

[terry smith rules]

It seems an absurd question to be asking in round 4 of the competition but here we are.

Seriously, I do not understand our footy team. At all.

We are putrid for two and half quarters and then sensational.

Seriously? Putrid? Ridiculous comment

We made some mistakes but for many minutes we played some excellent footy in the first half, it was a reasonable standard game

[CQ SAINT]

If you ask me, its the wrong question.
We've done the hard work, we've missed flurries at goal over the last season that would have seen us play finals 2 years in a row.
Right now, the question for me is have we just jumped a major psychological hurdle.
We have gotten rid of some ball butchers, modified others and bought in quality with Lienert and NVM. A forward structure is starting to appear, our mids are thinking about how they impose their effort and this group is beginning to work out who is who.

[Zed]

Once we can get some consistency then we will be the real deal.
Consistency across the board- pressure, disposal efficiency, tackling, goal kicking.
Sometimes it will be good enough to win games , sometimes it won’t.

No shame in being beaten by a better team, but it’s shameful when we shoot ourselves in the foot by not turning up to play, kicking it to the oppo, or missing easy set shots.

[saynta]

It seems an absurd question to be asking in round 4 of the competition but here we are.

Seriously, I do not understand our footy team. At all.

We are putrid for two and half quarters and then sensational.

Seriously? Putrid? Ridiculous comment

We made some mistakes but for many minutes we played some excellent footy in the first half, it was a reasonable standard game

Agree. Just watched the replay and without the emotion, I think we were competitive in the first 3 quarters and dominant in the last.

[SunnyErnie]

It seems an absurd question to be asking in round 4 of the competition but here we are.

Seriously, I do not understand our footy team. At all.

We are putrid for two and half quarters and then sensational.

How can this be ? It doesn't make sense. Any team that can turn a 25 point deficit into a 33 point victory and kick 10 unanswered goals has to be the real deal?

But there is a question mark. Always a question mark with this team.

The Tigers had a few good ones missing but so did the Saints. Even so, Richmond was all over us and then they weren't.

It is like when we click we really click. We are virtually unstoppable. Our midfield goes from a bunch of plodders to thoroughbred racehorses.

And who says we can't kick goals? We can do anything if we want to. That's what I don't understand. We proved it a bit against the Dockers and for longer against the Tiges.

So why can't we play like that all the time? Like for 4 quarters? Why indeed.

No more excuses. Not after that. The benchmark was set by the players themselves.

Not often we win a Maddie's match.

But this is a schizophrenic footy club.

Who knows what team will turn up next week.

It's to do with mindset. When we play daring. attacking football, that's when we are at our best. When things go a little off and the pressure is on we tend to start playing safe and that is where we get undone. Once the whole club has the confidence to just keep on playing attacking football that's when we will become a top 4 team. It's a fine line and it could go either way this year.

Next year will see us really hit our straps. Injuries permitting. But at the same time, it could happen this year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!