Boris Enright

[Cordz2]

If Richo were still coaching, does anyone think we’d we be playing this well?

[saynta]

If Richo were still coaching, does anyone think we’d we be playing this well?

That's one for the gods to answer, not I. We can but speculate.

[maverick]

Coaches are like teachers, the best ones make a big difference, the bad ones stunt development, lose people in the system they are in and are eventually moved on when people don’t develop

The best coach can’t make the laziest player succeed, in the end it is down to the player or person to do the work.

But a good coach can focus a person on the right things to succeed and build their confidence to believe in themselves.

[Yorkeys]

3rd lowest points scored against after 6 rounds.

And we have scored more than those two!

The role of an AFL senior coach now seems to be systems, tactics, belief and use of players - which leads to improved individual performances.

Does anyone else have trouble keeping up with where players go to when play is in motion, forwards bob up in defence, defenders kicking for goal. So different to the one dimensional stuff of Richo.

In a Finnis interview he mentioned that the footy department review showed that in trying to work within the soft cap and Covid cuts it came up that the coaching staff had become more generalist than concentrating on the specialist skills they were hired to bring and a consequence of that was a lack of role definition and accountability (unsaid: resulting in confusion and buck passing?). That appears to have been rectified.

Re Howard: I have heard key forwards opine that the easiest tactic to overcome is the backman that stands right next to you while the ball is out of the area. Possibly Howard, who is very quick, standing off his FF stops leads into a dangerous spot and funnels the forward to where others have it covered - our defenders work very well as a group. Not knowing where the FB is exactly but being pretty sure he will be coming full bore fist extended over/into you must be a bit disconcerting, yes?

Full disclosure: won't hear a word against Dougal, Port giving him and Lienert to us is a mystery to me for which I am grateful. Port must have such a strong list.

[Moods]

Coaches have their place

But I don’t overstate their role in performance

Players perform

Sounds like you've never had the privilege of having a great coach. They can make a world of difference to performance

[B.M]

Played under plenty of great coaches (and bad ones!)

They played me in various positions/roles and I played within their game plan

But DID NOT determine how well I played! That was entirely up to me!!!

[B.M]

Who was a better coach

Allen Jeans or Allen Joyce?

When was Allen Jeans a good coach
From late 60s to early 70’s at Stk or in his last few unsuccessful years at StK

At Hawthorn stacked with stars or at Richmond in 92?

There are numerous examples of great coaches failing with poor teams
Pagan - Carlton
Barassi- Melbourne
Malthouse - Carlton
Blight - StK
Jeans - Richmond

And there are plenty of others

Coaches can influence teams - but only to the point of the players potential - not beyond


Would Richardson have us playing this well

Don’t know - never saw Richo with a great list? Did he ever have a finals quality team??
Closest was probably 2016… and we won 12 games.

[Banger9798]

If Richo were still coaching, does anyone think we’d we be playing this well?

Definitely not, another crop of talent would be wasted

[Ghost Like]

Yep, St Kilda's history is littered with unlucky, great coaches. Some so unlucky, they not only failed to win us a flag, they failed to get us into finals before failing to be picked up by another AFL Club.

At least when Jezza coached us, he got a kick.

All that said, what's missing at the Giants? Surely having access to a lifetime of first round draft picks & some well credentialed established players. Hard to imagine they could come up so short, so often and genuinely seem soulless.

Coaches are important and I think Cameron is just as much of an example of that as Clarkson was.

[D.B.Cooper]

Obviously all aspects of a club must come together to be successful on the field and a great coach cannot turn a team lacking cattle into a premiership side, however I feel there is some serious underrating of the coaching impact by some posters on this site.

I have played many years of amateur sport and as an older adult been involved in selection committees etc for elite sports.
To suggest ones experiences from being coached at an amateur level in any way reflects the coaching input and results that can be achieved at elite level sport is extremely naive in my humble opinion.

When the framework is set and the players are effectively in control of their game they do in effect coach themselves, like Alan Joyce being a premiership coach. But that structure and team did not build, assemble and work itself, this was done externally with the buy in of the players.

A poor coach will get a substandard performance from a good group and a good coach will get a reasonable result from an average group but buy by and large there are not too many poor coaches or average lists in this day and age holding up the premiership cup.

Bulldogs in 2016 may be that exception.

[B.M]

Can you be a good coach one year and poor the next?

Because looking at results, they vary? If the coaches impact is what matters the most, why doesn’t the best coaches win all the time?
Hardwick and Simpson are premiership coaches - how are they going?
Cameron - well he’s coached GWS to 3 prelims and a GF

BTW
The best coach I’ve had is currently one of the coaches at StK

[Ghost Like]

Can you be a good coach one year and poor the next?

Because looking at results, they vary? If the coaches impact is what matters the most, why doesn’t the best coaches win all the time?
Hardwick and Simpson are premiership coaches - how are they going?
Cameron - well he’s coached GWS to 3 prelims and a GF

BTW
The best coach I’ve had is currently one of the coaches at StK

If you can be simple enough to draw the line purely at coach & player I guess this argument will continue until time stops.

If you try to justify Cameron, with the arsenal he's had at his disposal, as a good / great coach because of those results then you are overselling him.

BTW
B.M. your legend grows.

[WellardSaint]

Can you be a good coach one year and poor the next?

Because looking at results, they vary? If the coaches impact is what matters the most, why doesn’t the best coaches win all the time?
Hardwick and Simpson are premiership coaches - how are they going?
Cameron - well he’s coached GWS to 3 prelims and a GF

BTW
The best coach I’ve had is currently one of the coaches at StK

I'm confused.
You've said numerous times that coaches weren't responsible for your performances.
You don't credit them with any influence on you.
They seem to be simply figureheads to you, like the Queen would be, to a member of the military.
A soldier, sailor or airman is in the service of the Crown, but the Queen is just someone they see on TV.
That's how you see coaches.

So the 'best coach'?

[Ghost Like]

Can you be a good coach one year and poor the next?

Because looking at results, they vary? If the coaches impact is what matters the most, why doesn’t the best coaches win all the time?
Hardwick and Simpson are premiership coaches - how are they going?
Cameron - well he’s coached GWS to 3 prelims and a GF

BTW
The best coach I’ve had is currently one of the coaches at StK

I'm confused.
You've said numerous times that coaches weren't responsible for your performances.
You don't credit them with any influence on you.
They seem to be simply figureheads to you, like the Queen would be, to a member of the military.
A soldier, sailor or airman is in the service of the Crown, but the Queen is just someone they see on TV.
That's how you see coaches.

So the 'best coach'?

But he also said he had a coach who played him on the wing but he didn't like that because he did not want to defend. So he played loose until the coach moved him back to the middle. Sounds like someone who is uncoachable unless it suits his agenda. Nothing to do with whether a coach is good or bad...it's all about the player.

[SaintPav]

Obviously all aspects of a club must come together to be successful on the field and a great coach cannot turn a team lacking cattle into a premiership side, however I feel there is some serious underrating of the coaching impact by some posters on this site.

I have played many years of amateur sport and as an older adult been involved in selection committees etc for elite sports.
To suggest ones experiences from being coached at an amateur level in any way reflects the coaching input and results that can be achieved at elite level sport is extremely naive in my humble opinion.

When the framework is set and the players are effectively in control of their game they do in effect coach themselves, like Alan Joyce being a premiership coach. But that structure and team did not build, assemble and work itself, this was done externally with the buy in of the players.

A poor coach will get a substandard performance from a good group and a good coach will get a reasonable result from an average group but buy by and large there are not too many poor coaches or average lists in this day and age holding up the premiership cup.

Bulldogs in 2016 may be that exception.

So just out of interest did the dogs have a poor coach or a poor list in your opinion?

[D.B.Cooper]

Obviously all aspects of a club must come together to be successful on the field and a great coach cannot turn a team lacking cattle into a premiership side, however I feel there is some serious underrating of the coaching impact by some posters on this site.

I have played many years of amateur sport and as an older adult been involved in selection committees etc for elite sports.
To suggest ones experiences from being coached at an amateur level in any way reflects the coaching input and results that can be achieved at elite level sport is extremely naive in my humble opinion.

When the framework is set and the players are effectively in control of their game they do in effect coach themselves, like Alan Joyce being a premiership coach. But that structure and team did not build, assemble and work itself, this was done externally with the buy in of the players.

A poor coach will get a substandard performance from a good group and a good coach will get a reasonable result from an average group but buy by and large there are not too many poor coaches or average lists in this day and age holding up the premiership cup.

Bulldogs in 2016 may be that exception.

So just out of interest did the dogs have a poor coach or a poor list in your opinion?

At the time in 2016 I did not think they had a premiership list, but they won one.
Now I believe they do have the list but are struggling.

I'm probably totally wrong, but just a mug footy fan opinion.

There was no super dominant team in 2016 like Richmond or Melbourne of the past couple of seasons and Beveridge just got everything out of them.

[D.B.Cooper]

BTW
B.M. your legend grows.

He's like the love child of Chris Hewsworth & Gal Gadot with the sporting talent of Wayne Carey & Shane Warne combined,

[B.M]

I love how the commentary becomes about me (usually snide) when there’s nowhere to go


Where have I said coaches have NO importance?

Evidence suggests

Coaches MUST have good teams to be successful

Good teams don’t necessarily have to have great coaches to succeed

And
What makes a great coach? Win/loss? Premierships??

IMO
Ross Lyon was a good coach - he won zilch

[Ghost Like]

I love how the commentary becomes about me (usually snide) when there’s nowhere to go


Where have I said coaches have NO importance?

Evidence suggests

Coaches MUST have good teams to be successful

Good teams don’t necessarily have to have great coaches to succeed

And
What makes a great coach? Win/loss? Premierships??

IMO
Ross Lyon was a good coach - he won zilch

You could have stopped at the highlighted area B.M.. You make it about you & you love doing it.

You literally give coaches zero credit to the performance of a team when they win. Yet when they are losing or lose you talk about positional moves, who played out of position, what players should be instructed to do...all things that sound like good coaching to me.

Who are these teams that succeeded with poor coaches?

You seem to have your measurements as to what it means to be successful as a side, a club or a coach. We know you live and breathe B&Fs and Brownlow votes as the measure of a player.

Surely to win a Premiership we need players, coaches, recruiting and administration to be of equally high standards. This is where Cameron & the Giants are such a great example: Players Recruiting Administration Coaching
Do that same formula with Hawthorn, Richmond, Melbourne, Western Bulldogs, West Coast, Sydney in the years they won their flags & there will not be a cross.

[B.M]

I literally give coaches ZERO credit - is that the truth?

So

Was Bevo a great coach in 2016? Or is he a poor coach in 2022?

Neither is my guess…

[Vortex]

I literally give coaches ZERO credit - is that the truth?

So

Was Bevo a great coach in 2016? Or is he a poor coach in 2022?

Neither is my guess…

Could you also mount a strong argument he is also both?

[saynta]

I literally give coaches ZERO credit - is that the truth?

So

Was Bevo a great coach in 2016? Or is he a poor coach in 2022?

Neither is my guess…

Well, he's had the maggots on side in both years,

[Ghost Like]

I literally give coaches ZERO credit - is that the truth?

So

Was Bevo a great coach in 2016? Or is he a poor coach in 2022?

Neither is my guess…

That appears the case B.M., I'm not imagining this, others also appear to be of the belief you do not rate coaches & are at pains to give them any credit.

The answer to your questions are Yes & Yes. Neither suggests what happened in 2016 & 2022 would have happened without him being at the Club.

[Darth Vader]

I love how the commentary becomes about me (usually snide) when there’s nowhere to go


Where have I said coaches have NO importance?

Evidence suggests

Coaches MUST have good teams to be successful

Good teams don’t necessarily have to have great coaches to succeed

And
What makes a great coach? Win/loss? Premierships??

IMO
Ross Lyon was a good coach - he won zilch

This was your response to a post giving Enright some recognition. You're right, you haven't said he has NO importance, but it was pretty obvious where you were coming from.

"Re: Boris Enright
Post by B.M » Mon 25 Apr 2022 1:01am

As he would agree

Credit goes to the players

Can’t remember Enright getting a kick or performing a spoil this season"