The Never Ending Story

[older saint]

Extended my self imposed social media ban from 24 hours after Friday night to try to obtain a clear head and less emotion.

During this time of reflection it s clear that nothing has changed since 2017, with 2020 being an anomaly, we are the worst foot skilled side in the AFL. We lead the league in clangers by foot and goal kicking, which is a foot skill has not got better in the last 5 years. This year we are kicking at 52.5% for goal ( which will be actually worse as this doesn't include OOF). In 21 games 9 games we have more points than goals, 1 game 50%, 11 games more goals than points . In 2021 it was 51.6%. 2020 the outlay on this 58% ( shorter quarters for games also reduced fatigue and across the league average was better),2019 52.4%, 2018 50.5%.

I have been crapping on about how bad our foot skills and therefore goal kicking has been for years. Unfortunately either the club is too stubborn, too loyal, or too pigheaded to admit that what they have been doing or who has been doing it isn't working. definition of insanity is doing the same thing the same way and expecting a different result.

King, Gresham and others have flaws in their techniques. None worse than 1 Stewie Loewe had though. I remember early days at Moorabin we would have guesses whether it would be a point/ goal or OOF each shot, no matter where he was kicking from as all 3 were in play.
He went away and worked one summer with Hudson (one of the best goal kickers ever) and he said he concentrated on just 1 r 2 things . He then practised these one or to things only again and again until they became automatic via muscle memory . He ended up with an average of over 60 for his career.

King has flaws that even a mug at home can see. Set shots each kick isn't the same for a start. His run up changes , he spins the ball (so irritating as the good kickers hold it still) and the ball drop is different each time. Like golf or basketball the more consistency in technique the better you will be and the easier it is to adjust . He keeps changing things as he goes and there is no way he could know what actually is causing the problem.

I have no doubt how hard he practice, but perfect practice makes perfect not just practice.

Another year wasted by the lack of foot skills at goal an on the ground. Something needs to change be it personnel ( not Ratten for those who want blood) doing the teaching or players doing the kicking.
Hopefully the guy they got from Collingwood can work wonders on development as they have significantly improved due to the younger guys ( and a father son called Daicos has helped too).

[bangaulegend]

Extended my self imposed social media ban from 24 hours after Friday night to try to obtain a clear head and less emotion.

During this time of reflection it s clear that nothing has changed since 2017, with 2020 being an anomaly, we are the worst foot skilled side in the AFL. We lead the league in clangers by foot and goal kicking, which is a foot skill has not got better in the last 5 years. This year we are kicking at 52.5% for goal ( which will be actually worse as this doesn't include OOF). In 21 games 9 games we have more points than goals, 1 game 50%, 11 games more goals than points . In 2021 it was 51.6%. 2020 the outlay on this 58% ( shorter quarters for games also reduced fatigue and across the league average was better),2019 52.4%, 2018 50.5%.

I have been crapping on about how bad our foot skills and therefore goal kicking has been for years. Unfortunately either the club is too stubborn, too loyal, or too pigheaded to admit that what they have been doing or who has been doing it isn't working. definition of insanity is doing the same thing the same way and expecting a different result.

King, Gresham and others have flaws in their techniques. None worse than 1 Stewie Loewe had though. I remember early days at Moorabin we would have guesses whether it would be a point/ goal or OOF each shot, no matter where he was kicking from as all 3 were in play.
He went away and worked one summer with Hudson (one of the best goal kickers ever) and he said he concentrated on just 1 r 2 things . He then practised these one or to things only again and again until they became automatic via muscle memory . He ended up with an average of over 60 for his career.

King has flaws that even a mug at home can see. Set shots each kick isn't the same for a start. His run up changes , he spins the ball (so irritating as the good kickers hold it still) and the ball drop is different each time. Like golf or basketball the more consistency in technique the better you will be and the easier it is to adjust . He keeps changing things as he goes and there is no way he could know what actually is causing the problem.

I have no doubt how hard he practice, but perfect practice makes perfect not just practice.

Another year wasted by the lack of foot skills at goal an on the ground. Something needs to change be it personnel ( not Ratten for those who want blood) doing the teaching or players doing the kicking.
Hopefully the guy they got from Collingwood can work wonders on development as they have significantly improved due to the younger guys ( and a father son called Daicos has helped too).

Good post lack of quality foot skills have killed us for a decade but we keep drafting & recruiting blokes with average or below average kicking skills . NWM is an exception to the rule so at least we are addressing the issue

[Impatient Sainter]

Is there a chance that the club doesnt put enough credence in teaching or practicing the basic skills?

[B.M]

Nor should they

You recruit 18yo’s from an elite development program

They should know how to kick and be good at it

You shouldn’t be at the elite level if you can’t perform the basics

Unless you have other ELITE qualities that make up for it!

Brett Ratten is not employed to teach people how to kick, mark & handball - maybe DC does, but he would focus more on advanced decision making

Ratten is there to teach players who are elite at that how to play a certain system.

[Yorkeys]

Is there a chance that the club doesnt put enough credence in teaching or practicing the basic skills?

The first choice 22 can kick and handball ok at training. The problems as I see it are execution under pressure by a few repeat offenders, generally poor decision making and upfield players not moving to help ball carrier. With a few exceptions the team also lacks composure. A couple or three exceptions IMO are Windhager, Owens, Clark, Wood, Wilkie, Sincs.
It takes a really good coach to establish team composure and instinctive support patterns. The players need a minimum level of smarts too because it involves understanding concepts, mental strength and discipline. We had the raw talent to make the 8 this year but obviously didn't. The spark to get it right next year? At the moment I despair the club doesn't even know where to start. Hence a never ending cycle. ?

[samuraisaint]

Duplicate post.

[samuraisaint]

Is there a chance that the club doesnt put enough credence in teaching or practicing the basic skills?

Do astronauts get taught basic maths after they are recruited, or are dept of defence analysts coached on data research gathering when they are headhunted from universities? No, they are employed because they have these skills and more.

I cannot believe any of our senior players who have played thirty-fifty games need to be taught how to kick a drop punt in perfect conditions.

All between the ears. I mean how did we lose by 6 goals to Essendon this year? Absolute bush league.

Friday night the players needed to be switched on from the beginning of the game, not wait until they were almost five goals down to become desperate enough to take the game on.

If the game plan is to play that p1ss poor style we played in the first half with all of our forwards in their back line and no one forward of centre, than they better get a new one, because it is sh1tfull and boring to watch.

[Wayne42]

When i read the thread title i thought the OP was going to be about Limahl.

[bangaulegend]

When i read the thread title i thought the OP was going to be about Limahl.

Ah a ha a ha a ha ha

[Wayne42]

When i read the thread title i thought the OP was going to be about Limahl.

Ah a ha a ha a ha ha

[older saint]

When i read the thread title i thought the OP was going to be about Limahl.

About as enjoyable!

[older saint]

Is there a chance that the club doesnt put enough credence in teaching or practicing the basic skills?

I agree this question needs to be asked. Having coached a different sport where I have integrated elite players from a junior level in to a Senior level any weaknesses in techniques get found out early due to increase speed and physicality. These skills then need to be "tweaked" at times to remove what they could "get away with at a junior level' that you can't at a senior level.
I think AFL spends a lot of time with the fitness requirement transition to professional athlete - which is completely required- but St Kilda at least don't seem to work on the skill transition aspect.

[Crossy66]

What I have noticed over the years is that the difference between the great players and the rest, I'd the ability to execute skills under extreme pressure i.e. finals or critical moments in games.
Need to train short, high intensity sessions, to mimic extreme pressure, quick decision making, performing when fatigued, particularly goal kicking.
Most players can execute ok under normal circumstances.

[Wayne42]

So what does Damien Carroll actually do and when and where does he do it and with which players ?
I'm intrigued about how they go about player development at the Saints.

[older saint]

So what does Damien Carroll actually do and when and where does he do it and with which players ?
I'm intrigued about how they go about player development at the Saints.

my guess is this process takes a few years however i will say if he has been hands on with the first year players then tick so far

[repta]

I dont believe our "foot skills' are any worse than the next team, taking out goal kicking.

Foot skills around the ground break down to structure and game plan. Is the player where I need them, or where they should be. Are they getting into a position that I can actually kick it to them.
This really comes from 'how difficult is the game plan to execute" There needs to be fluidity between defence and attack. I am not defering to defenders and attackers. Each player should have two sides. Defence and attack. The team needs to flow evenly between the two statuses. The transition needs to be fluid and done as one unit.
The top sides do it.
The ones caught in the middle are stilted.

The Saints are very stilted. We are good at all out attack. We are good at defence. We cant transition as a unit between the statuses.

This is where the ball appears to go haywire. Wrong targets, wrong placements, poor decision making comes usually comes from a lack of a good decision.

Preparation is the key. Simplification will make things easier.
Same for goal kicking.