Living In Nowhere Land

[bangaulegend]

Wow such a positive site!

Not a lot to be happy about IMO

[meher baba]

Disastrous trade period. They could have either gone hard at the draft or looked to bring in elite talent. They’ve done neither and now we are in for another 12 months with poor on field performances and little hope in terms of elite young talent (outside of maybe 1 or 2 guys).

The club tried to bring in elite talent in de Goey, who in the end didn't want to come. The other player on offer who was truly elite IMO - Taranto - also seemed to have eyes only for the Tigers.

That left us with a large space in our budget in forward years that we had been intending to spend on de Goey but - quite wisely IMO - we chose not to invest this money and our #9 pick in the other less exciting trade options that were available. Would you or any other poster have been particularly excited if we had recruited any of these guys? Hopper maybe, but the Tigers seem to have given him a pretty sweet deal, and they were always going to be a more attractive club than us .

Perhaps Bowes would have been worth going after, although he's not the sort of player we need so the only point would have been to direct quite a lot of our budget in future years towards snaring pick 7, when the draft is always going to be a bit of a lottery.

In the end, we've kept our budget space in future years available to go hard at one or more trades or free agents in 2023. I think this is what Gallagher was trying to say, in an extremely clumsy and stupid way. We could have gone hard for a Hunter or Grundy, but the reward/cost ratio doesn't look good enough: unlike de Goey, these aren't the sort of players who could take us to a premiership.

Re your comment that we could have "gone hard at the draft": what does this mean? We've got the draft picks we've got, and no doubt we'll use them as well as we can. If we had gotten Bowes, we might have got pick 7 as well, but apparently we weren't one of the clubs he wanted to talk to. You can hardly blame him for picking the premiers over us. So how could we have gotten ourselves into a better position in the draft than we have? Only by trading existing players for picks. But, as the Hunter Clark kerfuffle illustrates, not to mention some of the other trades that went through, clubs that trade first team players for draft picks are not getting very good returns at the moment.

So, trade week was particularly unexciting for us this year. But I suspcect we have far more space in our future year budgets than the Victorian-based clubs who are ahead of us on the table, and we might have the opportunity to swing something good in next year's trade period. I far prefer this outcome to, say, our having secured Grundy and Hunter on expensive contracts, or to have traded Hill and Clark away for second round draft picks.

[skeptic]

Disastrous trade period. They could have either gone hard at the draft or looked to bring in elite talent. They’ve done neither and now we are in for another 12 months with poor on field performances and little hope in terms of elite young talent (outside of maybe 1 or 2 guys).

The club tried to bring in elite talent in de Goey, who in the end didn't want to come. The other player on offer who was truly elite IMO - Taranto - also seemed to have eyes only for the Tigers.

That left us with a large space in our budget in forward years that we had been intending to spend on de Goey but - quite wisely IMO - we chose not to invest this money and our #9 pick in the other less exciting trade options that were available. Would you or any other poster have been particularly excited if we had recruited any of these guys? Hopper maybe, but the Tigers seem to have given him a pretty sweet deal, and they were always going to be a more attractive club than us .

Perhaps Bowes would have been worth going after, although he's not the sort of player we need so the only point would have been to direct quite a lot of our budget in future years towards snaring pick 7, when the draft is always going to be a bit of a lottery.

In the end, we've kept our budget space in future years available to go hard at one or more trades or free agents in 2023. I think this is what Gallagher was trying to say, in an extremely clumsy and stupid way. We could have gone hard for a Hunter or Grundy, but the reward/cost ratio doesn't look good enough: unlike de Goey, these aren't the sort of players who could take us to a premiership.

Re your comment that we could have "gone hard at the draft": what does this mean? We've got the draft picks we've got, and no doubt we'll use them as well as we can. If we had gotten Bowes, we might have got pick 7 as well, but apparently we weren't one of the clubs he wanted to talk to. You can hardly blame him for picking the premiers over us. So how could we have gotten ourselves into a better position in the draft than we have? Only by trading existing players for picks. But, as the Hunter Clark kerfuffle illustrates, not to mention some of the other trades that went through, clubs that trade first team players for draft picks are not getting very good returns at the moment.

So, trade week was particularly unexciting for us this year. But I suspcect we have far more space in our future year budgets than the Victorian-based clubs who are ahead of us on the table, and we might have the opportunity to swing something good in next year's trade period. I far prefer this outcome to, say, our having secured Grundy and Hunter on expensive contracts, or to have traded Hill and Clark away for second round draft picks.

Agreed on all points…

I feel like a certain degree of “JUST DO ANYTHING FOR GOODNESS SAKE” has crept in to the commentary but I really am not seeing what we could have done in this trade period.

As has been pointed out… there’s been talk all year around Amon and DeGoey but they made other decisions

Taranto only wanted the tigers and Bowes wasn’t interest in us.

What exactly did people want us to do?

I think rather than make a grand father offer on a less than ideal choice, you’re better off licking wounds and going all out again next year. I think Bing possibly comes out of contract? Maybe start there.

Meanwhile, we moved on a whole heap of players that really weren’t going to play anymore and weren’t depth (Hannebery, Geary, Joyce, Kent) and Long + Ryder too who were a bit more desirable.

We brought in Cordy who is a much much needed addition to our defence/depth.

Not spectacular but we’re better for it.

All we can do is hopefully draft well… see some of the unfit stragglers get back to close to their best (Jones, Clark, Billings) and see some improvement in the newer players e.g Windy, Owen, NWH, Coops, Hayes

Then if we actually look like we’re going on an upward trajectory, that may attract some talent next year.

[cwrcyn]

We didn't have a player of Dunkley's quality walk out. Nor the quality of Horne-Francis, Hopper, Taranto, Jackson, Grundy, Hunter, Rankine. We didn't give away a top 10 draft pick for nothing like Gold Coast. Nor did we lose talented youngsters like Bruhn and Henry, or a key position player like Lobb.


Sydney and West Coast did very little like us, but neither were pilloried for it. Essendon got Setterfield and Weideman. Big deal. Melbourne picked up Schache, who is a spud. Collingwood picked up Frampton,who is also a spud.


It's not just about who you gain, it's also about who you lose, and a few clubs just played ring around the rosie.

Of all the high profile players who moved none were ever going to come to us. Nor were they going to go to a lot of other clubs.


Just get over it. It's not a disaster.

[Vortex]

We didn't have a player of Dunkley's quality walk out. Nor the quality of Horne-Francis, Hopper, Taranto, Jackson, Grundy, Hunter, Rankine. We didn't give away a top 10 draft pick for nothing like Gold Coast. Nor did we lose talented youngsters like Bruhn and Henry, or a key position player like Lobb.


Sydney and West Coast did very little like us, but neither were pilloried for it. Essendon got Setterfield and Weideman. Big deal. Melbourne picked up Schache, who is a spud. Collingwood picked up Frampton,who is also a spud.


It's not just about who you gain, it's also about who you lose, and a few clubs just played ring around the rosie.

Of all the high profile players who moved none were ever going to come to us. Nor were they going to go to a lot of other clubs.


Just get over it. It's not a disaster.

Interesting listening to GWS Jason McCartney say they and WCE deliberately wanted picks lower this year because most of the picks expected up higher were Victorian boys and were not willing to risk the go home factor.

An interesting strategy I thought.

[cwrcyn]

I think this is going to become more of a feature in coming years. Clubs focussing more on home-grown talent. After two years of development, there's no guarantee that a player has shown what his full potential is likely to be. So, you pick up a kid from interstate with a top ten pick and then potentially lose him for a a second rounder in two years time

[meher baba]

We didn't have a player of Dunkley's quality walk out. Nor the quality of Horne-Francis, Hopper, Taranto, Jackson, Grundy, Hunter, Rankine. We didn't give away a top 10 draft pick for nothing like Gold Coast. Nor did we lose talented youngsters like Bruhn and Henry, or a key position player like Lobb.


Sydney and West Coast did very little like us, but neither were pilloried for it. Essendon got Setterfield and Weideman. Big deal. Melbourne picked up Schache, who is a spud. Collingwood picked up Frampton,who is also a spud.


It's not just about who you gain, it's also about who you lose, and a few clubs just played ring around the rosie.

Of all the high profile players who moved none were ever going to come to us. Nor were they going to go to a lot of other clubs.


Just get over it. It's not a disaster.

Interesting listening to GWS Jason McCartney say they and WCE deliberately wanted picks lower this year because most of the picks expected up higher were Victorian boys and were not willing to risk the go home factor.

An interesting strategy I thought.

Good grief. All of this yearning for home cooking and being tucked into bed at night. Have we bred a generation of mummy's boys?

[Vortex]

We didn't have a player of Dunkley's quality walk out. Nor the quality of Horne-Francis, Hopper, Taranto, Jackson, Grundy, Hunter, Rankine. We didn't give away a top 10 draft pick for nothing like Gold Coast. Nor did we lose talented youngsters like Bruhn and Henry, or a key position player like Lobb.


Sydney and West Coast did very little like us, but neither were pilloried for it. Essendon got Setterfield and Weideman. Big deal. Melbourne picked up Schache, who is a spud. Collingwood picked up Frampton,who is also a spud.


It's not just about who you gain, it's also about who you lose, and a few clubs just played ring around the rosie.

Of all the high profile players who moved none were ever going to come to us. Nor were they going to go to a lot of other clubs.


Just get over it. It's not a disaster.

Interesting listening to GWS Jason McCartney say they and WCE deliberately wanted picks lower this year because most of the picks expected up higher were Victorian boys and were not willing to risk the go home factor.

An interesting strategy I thought.

Good grief. All of this yearning for home cooking and being tucked into bed at night. Have we bred a generation of mummy's boys?

A millennial told me only today it's inappropriate to use the thumbs up emoji in a teams meeting.

Got me thinking about that old saying, sticks and stones may break my bones but emojis will never hurt me.

[damienc]

We didn't have a player of Dunkley's quality walk out. Nor the quality of Horne-Francis, Hopper, Taranto, Jackson, Grundy, Hunter, Rankine. We didn't give away a top 10 draft pick for nothing like Gold Coast. Nor did we lose talented youngsters like Bruhn and Henry, or a key position player like Lobb.


Sydney and West Coast did very little like us, but neither were pilloried for it. Essendon got Setterfield and Weideman. Big deal. Melbourne picked up Schache, who is a spud. Collingwood picked up Frampton,who is also a spud.


It's not just about who you gain, it's also about who you lose, and a few clubs just played ring around the rosie.

Of all the high profile players who moved none were ever going to come to us. Nor were they going to go to a lot of other clubs.


Just get over it. It's not a disaster.

Well, it depends on your definition of disaster.

We have not won a premiership since 1966.

We just ended a mediocre season where we finished outside the eight and didn't look like we were good enough even if we had managed to scrape into the finals.

Improvement has to come from somewhere. Either it comes internally and we are counting on guys like Billings and Coffield and a few others I won't bother naming, suddenly discovering the form of their lives.

Or maybe it comes from a couple of the draft guys from last year that showed some promise.

Or you try and trade it in. There were a couple of players, Taranto, Hooper and Grundy who fitted our needs but we didn't make a play for them.

Maybe they were not interested in coming.Hard to know if you don't ask the question.

Should we have at least made a play for them?

Yeah I think we should have. At least it would show we were trying to improve the list.

It seems to me that 2023 is destined to be a repeat of 2022.

I suppose I should be used to it.

But I would like to see us win a premiership before I die.

[Yorkeys]

I am super glad the St Kilda Football Club erased any doubts about where, how and why the team ended up out of the eight in season 2022.

Never fear.

We remain very much in the premiership window despite not playing finals footy nor even looking like we’d be good enough.

I mean, what other inference is there to be drawn about our non appearance in trade week?

No. I forgot. We did do something.

We recruited a guy struggling to get a game as a defender in the Western Bulldogs as a backup, in case of injury to one of our key defenders.

Well at least he knows what it’s like to play in a premiership winning footy team. Maybe he can tell his new team-mates.

The footy commentators think we’re going nowhere. It’s hard to disagree.

A lot of good players made moves in this trade period strengthening clubs who finished a lot lower on the ladder than we did. And as a result they have improved significantly.

And where exactly were we when all of this drama was taking place? Mr Invisible.

Which brings me back to my original point. Clearly our list is premiership material. We're in the window. We must be. Otherwise why did we make no attempt to boost our list?

Now don’t you go trying to tell me the club will load up at the draft. Sure. We’ll nab a few prospects but they’re years away from making a significant impact.

You’ve probably heard this before: Nothing changes if nothing changes.

And that pretty much sums up where this footy club is at.

Maybe that’s ok for you. But it isn’t for me and never will be.

So we go into 2023 with what we had in 2022 minus Ben Long.

Here’s another saying: The definition of madness is repeating the same and expecting a different result.

There is no method in this madness.

Oh damienc, I’ve become so excited reading your post. I’m only required to read to the end of your third sentence and I became oh, so, so thrilled. I have read many (actually too many) posts on S/S over the years, never have I ever read the word ‘nor’ used correctly.

I doubt if this much neglected word has ever appeared in a post on this site before. I may be corrected on this last statement, as we do have some some argumentative, cantankerous blighters on Saintsational who will take great delight in proving me wrong, highlighting how They used the word ‘nor’ in a post ten years ago. In my defence, I haven’t read every post ever written, sorry ‘bout that folks!

damienc, I’m sure the rest of your post is fab; however, I am so excited to read this once in a lifetime use of ‘nor’ on Saintsational that I must go and have a dance around the kitchen, then take a cold shower.

Promise I’ll get back to reading the rest of your post, when I calm down

Hi Loris,
Killa inserted a nor in elegantly when waxing about Norwood, yes?
In regard to the rest of the post, if I may paraphrase to save you time, the end is nigh because we have not improved our ladder position since August/September. Nor have we recruited any one of the Justice League and it's just not good enough.

[damienc]

I am super glad the St Kilda Football Club erased any doubts about where, how and why the team ended up out of the eight in season 2022.

Never fear.

We remain very much in the premiership window despite not playing finals footy nor even looking like we’d be good enough.

I mean, what other inference is there to be drawn about our non appearance in trade week?

No. I forgot. We did do something.

We recruited a guy struggling to get a game as a defender in the Western Bulldogs as a backup, in case of injury to one of our key defenders.

Well at least he knows what it’s like to play in a premiership winning footy team. Maybe he can tell his new team-mates.

The footy commentators think we’re going nowhere. It’s hard to disagree.

A lot of good players made moves in this trade period strengthening clubs who finished a lot lower on the ladder than we did. And as a result they have improved significantly.

And where exactly were we when all of this drama was taking place? Mr Invisible.

Which brings me back to my original point. Clearly our list is premiership material. We're in the window. We must be. Otherwise why did we make no attempt to boost our list?

Now don’t you go trying to tell me the club will load up at the draft. Sure. We’ll nab a few prospects but they’re years away from making a significant impact.

You’ve probably heard this before: Nothing changes if nothing changes.

And that pretty much sums up where this footy club is at.

Maybe that’s ok for you. But it isn’t for me and never will be.

So we go into 2023 with what we had in 2022 minus Ben Long.

Here’s another saying: The definition of madness is repeating the same and expecting a different result.

There is no method in this madness.

Oh damienc, I’ve become so excited reading your post. I’m only required to read to the end of your third sentence and I became oh, so, so thrilled. I have read many (actually too many) posts on S/S over the years, never have I ever read the word ‘nor’ used correctly.

I doubt if this much neglected word has ever appeared in a post on this site before. I may be corrected on this last statement, as we do have some some argumentative, cantankerous blighters on Saintsational who will take great delight in proving me wrong, highlighting how They used the word ‘nor’ in a post ten years ago. In my defence, I haven’t read every post ever written, sorry ‘bout that folks!

damienc, I’m sure the rest of your post is fab; however, I am so excited to read this once in a lifetime use of ‘nor’ on Saintsational that I must go and have a dance around the kitchen, then take a cold shower.

Promise I’ll get back to reading the rest of your post, when I calm down

Hi Loris,
Killa inserted a nor in elegantly when waxing about Norwood, yes?
In regard to the rest of the post, if I may paraphrase to save you time, the end is nigh because we have not improved our ladder position since August/September. Nor have we recruited any one of the Justice League and it's just not good enough.

You know I'm right.