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Vortex wrote: ↑Mon 07 Nov 2022 8:12am
… it's great to see RL has now surrounded himself with YES men.
How many assistant coaches under his tutelage have gone on to be senior coaches in the AFL?
Any?
Maybe he does basically want YES men
How do you know they're "YES men"?
Maybe he's bringing in people that challenged his view...Made him see different sides of the problem.
Can't imagine Harvey, Hayes, or Goddard being yes men.
The first thing good leaders do is put good people around them. That's what it appears that Lyon is doing here.
You two are painting him to be a Donald Trump like person that is a jobs for boys man.
Nobody batted an eyelid when Clarkson started putting his people (Viney) in at North.
Teflon wrote: ↑Tue 08 Nov 2022 9:59am
Lol volatile and bitter attack…you might need to toughen the skin up a tad mate …it’s a footy forum not a road rage incident…
That aside I do get flabbergasted by some of the nonsensical stuff you put up
I’ll try keep my “rage” in check lol
I would have thought that if you have contempt for the "nonsensical stuff' I put up that you'd not bother to read it, least of all respond.
What you fail to understand is that everyone on this forum is at liberty to express an opinion, and there's no need to respond with agressive rebuttals when you disagree with what soneone else has posted - just ignore it...as I do many of yours with which I disagree....and on the odd occasion I've even considered it appropriate to agree with your reasoning. Not a matter of toughening up, it's just not in my nature in my 80's as I approach dotage to be combative.
"I am an old man and have known a great many troubles, but most of them never happened."
"Life would be infinitely happier if we could only be born at the age of eighty and gradually approach eighteen."
Mark Twain (1835 - 1910) American writer and humorist
Vortex wrote: ↑Mon 07 Nov 2022 8:12am
… it's great to see RL has now surrounded himself with YES men.
How many assistant coaches under his tutelage have gone on to be senior coaches in the AFL?
Any?
Maybe he does basically want YES men
How do you know they're "YES men"?
Maybe he's bringing in people that challenged his view...Made him see different sides of the problem.
Can't imagine Harvey, Hayes, or Goddard being yes men.
The first thing good leaders do is put good people around them. That's what it appears that Lyon is doing here.
You two are painting him to be a Donald Trump like person that is a jobs for boys man.
Nobody batted an eyelid when Clarkson started putting his people (Viney) in at North.
Good points. The proof will be in the pudding
How long do you give them before the supporter base become impatient?
How long do you reckon before one of the coaching group decide to abandon ship? Two of the band members have form ….with no problems wearing other colours….don’t they?
If results do not improve and we miss out on finals, heads will need to roll. That’s the nature of the business. The other possibility would be pressure from within where the board becomes fractured.
Teflon wrote: ↑Tue 08 Nov 2022 9:59am
Lol volatile and bitter attack…you might need to toughen the skin up a tad mate …it’s a footy forum not a road rage incident…
That aside I do get flabbergasted by some of the nonsensical stuff you put up
I’ll try keep my “rage” in check lol
I would have thought that if you have contempt for the "nonsensical stuff' I put up that you'd not bother to read it, least of all respond.
What you fail to understand is that everyone on this forum is at liberty to express an opinion, and there's no need to respond with agressive rebuttals when you disagree with what soneone else has posted - just ignore it...as I do many of yours with which I disagree....and on the odd occasion I've even considered it appropriate to agree with your reasoning. Not a matter of toughening up, it's just not in my nature in my 80's as I approach dotage to be combative.
Combative?
I think you missed the point
I’m fully aware of the liberty to express an opinion- my opinion is your opinion above with your mate Vortex (lie down dogs and all…) is wrong.
You don’t like that I get it
And happy for you to suggest my stuff is drivel, rubbish or not to read it!! whatever you like cause that’s not aggressive/combative that’s just banter abd I’m ok with it (been on here long enough to have seen it often enough!!)
bakes wrote: ↑Fri 04 Nov 2022 2:33pm
The coaches are all a big tick for me. The big question I have is 'does the current list have the same drive/want for success as their coaches'? I think the answer for many is 'no'. It's going to take a few years of turning the list over and recruiting a bunch of players which have the 'drive'. I think the state competitions would be best for this e.g. Hayes, Wilkie, Lambert, Milne the list goes on, all of these guys had to work their butts off.
You have painted a beautiful picture of the elephant in the room, the list is still bog average with a severe mental fragility.
Not everyone responds well to "driving standads" and so it's hilarious listening to fan boys predicting RL has some type of impressive magic wand that can turn a cane toad into supreme A grade fighting machine. The reality could be we lose many and I suspect that is why we are now officially in a rebuild confirmed by Bassett saying we need to go backwards first.
Yep.
I just can’t get the numbers 16, 14, 14, 13 out of my head.
The ladder position Fremantle finished in the last 4 years under Lyon. He ain’t the messiah.
While there are salient and valid points made in each of these posts, and even I think we may drop back in 2023 and win a couple of less games, like maybe nine (mainly due to the losses of Ryder, Hannebery and Long - who are all in our best 22), I actually believe the list is a pretty good one. Our main problem has been injuries which has severely restricted the output of the team since 2020. Had we not had the long layoff in the winter of 2020 we may not have had Gesham for the entire season and not had Hannebery for the finals.
If we can find another three juniors like Owens, Wanganeen-Milera and Windhager, and three more mature aged rookies like Hayes, Sharman and Wilkie, we will be looking good.
Of the 3 players you mentioned samuraisaint only Paddy had a reasonable impact in the 11 wins, Hannebery only played 3 games 2 of which were in a losing side, and Ben Long had mostly only average impact until his swansong BOG in Rd 23. That doesn't even remotely justify your comment that "we may drop back in 2023 and win a couple of less games".
If you really beleve that "the list is a pretty good one" I would have thought you'd be quite bullish about the team's prospects in 2023 as it is generally agreed that under the new coaching panel under the leadership of Walsh and Lyon the team will be much improved in many ways, not least skill levels, teamwork and intensity, especially in the form of players with potential that has yet to be brought out.
My good friend Vortex, who believes that things might go arse up, mentions that Bassat is hedging his bets with the comment that the team might have to go backwards (before going forward) that's what anyone in his position would say, he's simply keeping a lid on things. It is patently obvious, in actions rather than words, that the club is in rebuild mode - viz bringing in youth through the drafts and refraining from actively participating in the UFA and RFA plays during the off-season.
This from Triggering BF is a great post and sums up why I don’t buy “the list is sh!t” theory:
********
From memory we were being written off in 2007 and leading into 2008 as having missed our chance and needing a rebuild. We had some absolute guns but lacked depth. Roo and Hayes were elite. Goddard built his reputation as a big game player after RTB spent a couple of years developing him. Same with Sam Fisher. Guys like Dal Santo, Milne and even Montagna went from flaky and inconsistent to legit A graders. Talented players like Ball, Kosi and X Clarke never had the opportunity to fulfil their talent under RTB. As you mentioned, many senior guys retired around that time as well. Guys like Gilbert, Dawson, even Schnieder, Gwilt, etc were prime examples of role players. Kosi became a role player. We had that many different ruck man. Gardiner was hardly around.
Whilst that 08-10 team was the best Saints team I have ever seen, it overachieved on the back of 3-4 elite players, 3-4 A graders and a dozen role players that RTB got absolutely the very best out of. Our team now has far more depth but is obviously missing the 3-4 elite players and 3-4 consistent A grade performers. I'm not saying we will reach the same heights, but RTB has a lot to work with. It's no wonder he has taken on this team - he sees a lot of unfulfilled talent.
Needing a rebuild!!!!
That’s a bit rich surely. Sure, some players needed to be transitioned out as Hamil was finishing up, Gehrig was done, Harvey had another year etc so yes I’ll accept that the list needed a tweak…
But Riewoldt, Kosi, Hayes, Goddard, Monty, Dal, Fisher, Baker, Hudghton, Gram, Blake, Gwilt, Clarkes x2, Geary etc is not a list that needed to be built from the ground up.
And in any one’s language, bringing in Ray, Peake, Gardiner, King, Schnieder, Dempster and Dawson is not a rebuild
You mightnt like it but when we had those players shuffling off at end of their careers plenty in the media were questioning if we’d missed our chance and needed to rebuild to replace/go again.
Nothing shocking in that - but it was a view out forward at the time whether you like it or not.
Regardless, not at all the point of the post which focuses on Lyons ability to lift /extract the best from players noting he had a fairly shallow tail of a list he needed to drag into the side as genuine role players (Clint Jones ring a bell? Mqualter types??) THATS the point.
bakes wrote: ↑Fri 04 Nov 2022 2:33pm
The coaches are all a big tick for me. The big question I have is 'does the current list have the same drive/want for success as their coaches'? I think the answer for many is 'no'. It's going to take a few years of turning the list over and recruiting a bunch of players which have the 'drive'. I think the state competitions would be best for this e.g. Hayes, Wilkie, Lambert, Milne the list goes on, all of these guys had to work their butts off.
You have painted a beautiful picture of the elephant in the room, the list is still bog average with a severe mental fragility.
Not everyone responds well to "driving standads" and so it's hilarious listening to fan boys predicting RL has some type of impressive magic wand that can turn a cane toad into supreme A grade fighting machine. The reality could be we lose many and I suspect that is why we are now officially in a rebuild confirmed by Bassett saying we need to go backwards first.
Yep.
I just can’t get the numbers 16, 14, 14, 13 out of my head.
The ladder position Fremantle finished in the last 4 years under Lyon. He ain’t the messiah.
While there are salient and valid points made in each of these posts, and even I think we may drop back in 2023 and win a couple of less games, like maybe nine (mainly due to the losses of Ryder, Hannebery and Long - who are all in our best 22), I actually believe the list is a pretty good one. Our main problem has been injuries which has severely restricted the output of the team since 2020. Had we not had the long layoff in the winter of 2020 we may not have had Gesham for the entire season and not had Hannebery for the finals.
If we can find another three juniors like Owens, Wanganeen-Milera and Windhager, and three more mature aged rookies like Hayes, Sharman and Wilkie, we will be looking good.
Of the 3 players you mentioned samuraisaint only Paddy had a reasonable impact in the 11 wins, Hannebery only played 3 games 2 of which were in a losing side, and Ben Long had mostly only average impact until his swansong BOG in Rd 23. That doesn't even remotely justify your comment that "we may drop back in 2023 and win a couple of less games".
If you really beleve that "the list is a pretty good one" I would have thought you'd be quite bullish about the team's prospects in 2023 as it is generally agreed that under the new coaching panel under the leadership of Walsh and Lyon the team will be much improved in many ways, not least skill levels, teamwork and intensity, especially in the form of players with potential that has yet to be brought out.
My good friend Vortex, who believes that things might go arse up, mentions that Bassat is hedging his bets with the comment that the team might have to go backwards (before going forward) that's what anyone in his position would say, he's simply keeping a lid on things. It is patently obvious, in actions rather than words, that the club is in rebuild mode - viz bringing in youth through the drafts and refraining from actively participating in the UFA and RFA plays during the off-season.
This from Triggering BF is a great post and sums up why I don’t buy “the list is sh!t” theory:
********
From memory we were being written off in 2007 and leading into 2008 as having missed our chance and needing a rebuild. We had some absolute guns but lacked depth. Roo and Hayes were elite. Goddard built his reputation as a big game player after RTB spent a couple of years developing him. Same with Sam Fisher. Guys like Dal Santo, Milne and even Montagna went from flaky and inconsistent to legit A graders. Talented players like Ball, Kosi and X Clarke never had the opportunity to fulfil their talent under RTB. As you mentioned, many senior guys retired around that time as well. Guys like Gilbert, Dawson, even Schnieder, Gwilt, etc were prime examples of role players. Kosi became a role player. We had that many different ruck man. Gardiner was hardly around.
Whilst that 08-10 team was the best Saints team I have ever seen, it overachieved on the back of 3-4 elite players, 3-4 A graders and a dozen role players that RTB got absolutely the very best out of. Our team now has far more depth but is obviously missing the 3-4 elite players and 3-4 consistent A grade performers. I'm not saying we will reach the same heights, but RTB has a lot to work with. It's no wonder he has taken on this team - he sees a lot of unfulfilled talent.
Needing a rebuild!!!!
That’s a bit rich surely. Sure, some players needed to be transitioned out as Hamil was finishing up, Gehrig was done, Harvey had another year etc so yes I’ll accept that the list needed a tweak…
But Riewoldt, Kosi, Hayes, Goddard, Monty, Dal, Fisher, Baker, Hudghton, Gram, Blake, Gwilt, Clarkes x2, Geary etc is not a list that needed to be built from the ground up.
And in any one’s language, bringing in Ray, Peake, Gardiner, King, Schnieder, Dempster and Dawson is not a rebuild
Good to see someone was paying attention to the comic relief.
On Goddard it's great to see RL has now surrounded himself with YES men.
Don't get me wrong, it's going to be absolutely fascinating watching the RL experiment unfold, I have a lot of man love for the guy and even followed him closely while at Freo and always wanted Freo to do well while he was there.
Having said that we now get to see RL have a second attempt at rebuilding a team as he clearly failed in that regard with his first attempt at Freo.
If we are in need of champagne comedy one only has to read your ramblings retiring Cooper Sharman after 7 games…quality stand up material there…
Vortex wrote: ↑Mon 07 Nov 2022 8:12am
… it's great to see RL has now surrounded himself with YES men.
How many assistant coaches under his tutelage have gone on to be senior coaches in the AFL?
Any?
Maybe he does basically want YES men
How do you know they're "YES men"?
Maybe he's bringing in people that challenged his view...Made him see different sides of the problem.
Can't imagine Harvey, Hayes, or Goddard being yes men.
The first thing good leaders do is put good people around them. That's what it appears that Lyon is doing here.
You two are painting him to be a Donald Trump like person that is a jobs for boys man.
Nobody batted an eyelid when Clarkson started putting his people (Viney) in at North.
Good points. The proof will be in the pudding
How long do you give them before the supporter base become impatient?
Around here about one game. Not sure how reflective that would be.
Not "Simon Templar". He was here first. Please change my username to Bumstead and if possible make me one of those very large sandwiches, thanks!
Good to see someone was paying attention to the comic relief.
On Goddard it's great to see RL has now surrounded himself with YES men.
Don't get me wrong, it's going to be absolutely fascinating watching the RL experiment unfold, I have a lot of man love for the guy and even followed him closely while at Freo and always wanted Freo to do well while he was there.
Having said that we now get to see RL have a second attempt at rebuilding a team as he clearly failed in that regard with his first attempt at Freo.
If we are in need of champagne comedy one only has to read your ramblings retiring Cooper Sharman after 7 games…quality stand up material there…
Good to see someone was paying attention to the comic relief.
On Goddard it's great to see RL has now surrounded himself with YES men.
Don't get me wrong, it's going to be absolutely fascinating watching the RL experiment unfold, I have a lot of man love for the guy and even followed him closely while at Freo and always wanted Freo to do well while he was there.
Having said that we now get to see RL have a second attempt at rebuilding a team as he clearly failed in that regard with his first attempt at Freo.
If we are in need of champagne comedy one only has to read your ramblings retiring Cooper Sharman after 7 games…quality stand up material there…
Cooper Who?
I didn’t expect you to know the names of our players if you’re retiring them after 7 games….
Good to see someone was paying attention to the comic relief.
On Goddard it's great to see RL has now surrounded himself with YES men.
Don't get me wrong, it's going to be absolutely fascinating watching the RL experiment unfold, I have a lot of man love for the guy and even followed him closely while at Freo and always wanted Freo to do well while he was there.
Having said that we now get to see RL have a second attempt at rebuilding a team as he clearly failed in that regard with his first attempt at Freo.
If we are in need of champagne comedy one only has to read your ramblings retiring Cooper Sharman after 7 games…quality stand up material there…
Cooper Who?
I didn’t expect you to know the names of our players if you’re retiring them after 7 games….
Yeah you got me there brother, I must admit I usually only remember players who have played more than 10 or so games...who's this Cooper fella you speak of? What was his story? Why didn't he make it?
Good to see someone was paying attention to the comic relief.
On Goddard it's great to see RL has now surrounded himself with YES men.
Don't get me wrong, it's going to be absolutely fascinating watching the RL experiment unfold, I have a lot of man love for the guy and even followed him closely while at Freo and always wanted Freo to do well while he was there.
Having said that we now get to see RL have a second attempt at rebuilding a team as he clearly failed in that regard with his first attempt at Freo.
If we are in need of champagne comedy one only has to read your ramblings retiring Cooper Sharman after 7 games…quality stand up material there…
Cooper Who?
I didn’t expect you to know the names of our players if you’re retiring them after 7 games….
Yeah you got me there brother, I must admit I usually only remember players who have played more than 10 or so games...who's this Cooper fella you speak of? What was his story? Why didn't he make it?
No probs sister..
Why didn’t he make it?
That’s obvious…you as king maker retired him!!
Good to see someone was paying attention to the comic relief.
On Goddard it's great to see RL has now surrounded himself with YES men.
Don't get me wrong, it's going to be absolutely fascinating watching the RL experiment unfold, I have a lot of man love for the guy and even followed him closely while at Freo and always wanted Freo to do well while he was there.
Having said that we now get to see RL have a second attempt at rebuilding a team as he clearly failed in that regard with his first attempt at Freo.
If we are in need of champagne comedy one only has to read your ramblings retiring Cooper Sharman after 7 games…quality stand up material there…
Cooper Who?
I didn’t expect you to know the names of our players if you’re retiring them after 7 games….
Yeah you got me there brother, I must admit I usually only remember players who have played more than 10 or so games...who's this Cooper fella you speak of? What was his story? Why didn't he make it?
No probs sister..
Why didn’t he make it?
That’s obvious…you as king maker retired him!!
Hey come on princess, pick that bottom lip up if you want to sit at the grown-ups table.
Firey, I notice you posted around 2pm....... isn’t that a little early to be drinking beer on a weekday?
I just think the lady must have incredible muscles in her eyelids, to be able to raise those heavily mascaraed false eyelashes - quite an heroic effort by the sister, me thinks
Firey, I notice you posted around 2pm....... isn’t that a little early to be drinking beer on a weekday?
I just think the lady must have incredible muscles in her eyelids, to be able to raise those heavily mascaraed false eyelashes - quite an heroic effort by the sister, me thinks
You got me loris. Was hoping no one would bother checking the time line. I’m on holidays in Queensland. 2 pm is a little late
