King comparisons

[Sanctorum]

Like many supporters I have been quite disappointed with Max King in the 7 games he's played so far this year, scoring just 14 goals and generally appearing a bit lacklustre and seemingly uncertain of the role of a key forward.

But when digging a bit deeper I had a look at the stats of other leading key forwards and came up with the following results when they were age 22:

Tom Hawkins - 21 goals
Tom Lynch - 46
Jeremy Cameron - 63
Nick Riewoldt - 59 (excluding finals)
Max King - 52

Cameron is the best but he had played every game since he debuted and was never seriously injured, unlike Max King.

So in essence Max King is doing really well, having missed his first year with a knee reconstruction and a lot of games this year with a buggered shoulder, we should cut him some slack because all going well he will get a lot better in 2024 and beyond.

It's not possible to compare King with Charlie Curnow because the latter missed almost 2 seasons through injury but if Max can emulate him, which is entirely possible as like Curnow he has excellent burst speed, and is 10cm taller!

[Teflon]

Yep it’s all perspective
We demand King be Cameron and he’s not there yet still building
Least of our worries
Our issues are: how do we use him properly and still appear multi faceted up forward???
I’d like to see him encouraged to get up on wing and run back a little more… mix it up

[bigcarl]

Yep it’s all perspective
We demand King be Cameron and he’s not there yet still building
Least of our worries
Our issues are: how do we use him properly and still appear multi faceted up forward???
I’d like to see him encouraged to get up on wing and run back a little more… mix it up

Yep, can’t afford to direct every forward thrust at him.

I think play him up the ground a bit. He always drags a couple of defenders with him. Leave Higgins/Caminiti/Butler closer to goal for the deeper entries.

And if that’s not working on the day, then mix it up. Nothing worse than being predictable

[Impatient Sainter]

Caminiti will also become the ace in our forward line when he matures. He is 19 yo and his attack on the footy in the air and pressure for a player his size are incredible. Then we see glimpses from Isaac Keeler and I think thats our 3 x key forwards of the future. Keeler to play the tall forward/rucking role, King the stay at home forward and Caminiti leading up at the ball. All will compliment each other very well when they reach their potential.

In the interim hopefully we can get Membrey or Hayes up and going and back into the side?

[Moods]

Yep it’s all perspective
We demand King be Cameron and he’s not there yet still building
Least of our worries
Our issues are: how do we use him properly and still appear multi faceted up forward???
I’d like to see him encouraged to get up on wing and run back a little more… mix it up

I agree with this. Prior to getting injured Max was taking some great important marks up on the wing. He needs to move around so as not to let the defence get set on him. He has natural speed so running back into the fwd line into space is a viable option for him. The marks up on the wing gives his marking confidence. Wish he was a more reliable kick for goal.....

[SAINT-LEE]

I dont demand Max be anyone...but I do demand he grows & shakes off the one dimensional game he plays. It stiffles him.
Every team knows he wont leave the forward 50. He spends more time in the 50 than any other forward in the AFL.

When he does leave he almost always has instant impact marking, feeding play, etc. I have been baffled by his stay at home and try to mark the never ending kicks in from the mid...often double teamed & out marked...he seems to lack that instinct to move out and take his game out of the clutches of defenders who seem almost cocky knowing they've all worked him out.


To contradict my own comments:
When comparing it certainly isnt fair Max vs Nick.

Nick had Gehrig, Lowe, Everitt, Hall, Koshitzche, Hamill...a tad bit of suppport and onfield mentorship like Max has never experienced...and honestly it shows.

Nick was literally guided, protected and given freedom from double teams to learn his craft & run wild.
Max has been THE FORWARD since he arrived with only Membrey to take some heat off...not slagging Members, he is a great support player but our forward line lacks star power and Nick rode into a sweet spot to develop and Max has not. Nick had a midfield that could hit targets, and had the nouse to go to other forwards and not target him 24/7. Harvey, Hayes, Dal Santo, Montagna and co fed the smalls as well as the key forwards in what we now know was a golden era. Think Milne...if Max had Higgins kicking 50-60 a season imagine the pressure it would take off him & release him structurally in the forward. Nick had soooo many luxuries Max simply does not.

Im not sure we dont have the beginnings of an era like Nick had...except for Max having established forwards to mentor him, protect, draw defenders, release him to run, etc.

However, I still see the one dimension as a fault...that would be different if we see one of these young guns really established Members back * or replaced by another like for like player

[samoht]

Given that we kicked 19 goals yesterday without King - and our forward line seemed to function a lot better (we were forced to lower our eyes entering the F50 and stopped bombing it in haphazardly), should we be looking at King as an intercepting tall defender?

At pick 49, Dylan Roberton became a great rebounding defender, why can't King become at least as good at pick 4?

Thinking outside the box, for just a minute.

10 kicks and 2 goals vs potentially 25 kicks, 8 intercept marks and 10 spoils?

[SAINT-LEE]

Given that we kicked 19 goals yesterday without King - and our forward line seemed to function a lot better (we were forced to lower our eyes entering the F50 and stopped bombing it in haphazardly), should we be looking at King as an intercepting tall defender?

At pick 49, Dylan Roberton became a great rebounding defender, why can't King become at least as good at pick 4?

No.
Max is needed in our Forward...he could be a defender, Ben was and was damn good.

But Hawks don't defend well...that's a fact.
The first quarter was an anomoly and we lost the 2nd & 3rd quarter.

Our scoring was not due to Howard or King or Hill being absent.

We can not sustain a finals run without those 3.

[samoht]

2 goals and 10 kicks on average is what we're getting from Max King vs potentially 25 kicks, 8 intercept marks and 10 important spoils?

Roberton was averaging around 24 possessions and 500 metres gained before his health issue ... what would King be capable of??

Pick 49 vs pick 4.

Is it a year of exploration, or not?

[Sanctorum]

I don't know if Max King would necessarily be a good backman, he has always been considered a key forward and there is little question in my mind that he will, in another year or two, mature into one of the comp's top goal kickers, better than any of the current crop.

But I do agree that as part of his progression to master his craft he should do a lot of leading and marking along the wings, similar to the way Jeremy Cameron does with Geelong.

[IluvHarvey]

Like many supporters I have been quite disappointed with Max King in the 7 games he's played so far this year, scoring just 14 goals and generally appearing a bit lacklustre and seemingly uncertain of the role of a key forward.

Harsh!

He kicked bags of 4, 4 and 3 in his first 3 games this year.
Then kicked 2 in the downpour against Richmond (reasonable effort for a big man in those conditions).
Had a shocker against Brisbane.
Played pretty well against WCE but only kicked 1 goal.
You can't count the Melbourne game as he was injured in the first 10 seconds.

Overall 3 very good games, 2 pretty good games, 1 shocker and 1 NA.

I'm only disappointed he has only played 7 (6 really) games. His out put has been pretty good.
With that output was on track for a 50+ goal season if he played all games.

[Scollop]

Maybe his issues are just as much a reflection on the standard of our footy development in general, rather than simply a case of Max not performing on a consistent basis

Zerohanger article agrees

https://www.zerohanger.com/why-joes-woe ... ns-140571/

[Sanctorum]

Maybe his issues are just as much a reflection on the standard of our footy development in general, rather than simply a case of Max not performing on a consistent basis

Zerohanger article agrees

https://www.zerohanger.com/why-joes-woe ... ns-140571/

This article certainly pinpoints the problem facing Max King, and also his twin Ben, which is how much do these blokes want to become elite players in the competition, do they posesss the hunger to do the hard work to hone their skills, especially at goal kicking accuracy. The proverbial ball is in their court, literally, and you'd imagine Ross Lyon for one will be doling all in his power to guide Max to achieve the level which in his younger days were considered to be his destiny.

I remain quite perplexed why Robert Harvey, who, for all his great talents, was never a forward, has been designated to perform the role of forward coach at St Kilda, rather than an experienced key forward. All the more so when you consider that just such an individual has been employed by St Kilda for a few years.

I refer of course to Jarryd Roughead who knows a hell of a lot about playing key forward, a role in which he excelled (though not exclusively) with Hawthorn for more than a decade.

From what I have read, Roughead has indicated he wants to become a football administrator, and currently, correct me if I'm wrong, he is scouting talent on behalf of the Saints in the junior ranks as well as susbsidary level competitions.

If I had my way, I would add the task of taking Max King under Rougheads wings as part of his duties and help to mentor him to work on strenthening his skills as a key forward.

[Yorkeys]

Wrong comparators. Compare Max to Tim Membrey. No comparison at all really, is it. No point in comparing with ace forwards that will never play for us.

And trying to follow some of the other logic, Charlie Curnow would make a good defender, but it would be silly to have a once in a generation forward playing back, wouldn't it.

[samoht]

Wrong comparators. Compare Max to Tim Membrey. No comparison at all really, is it. No point in comparing with ace forwards that will never play for us.

And trying to follow some of the other logic, Charlie Curnow would make a good defender, but it would be silly to have a once in a generation forward playing back, wouldn't it.

Once in a generation forward-to-be, maybe (in the case of King)?

Cameron does a lot of running around the ground.
He works really hard.
Always has.

Steven Silvani, the greatest FB of all time, apparently, played FF as well.

King has all this athleticism and height that could potentially be better used in defence, and around the ground?

[Saint2]

Max probably needs to move around more and make space- he hasn't got the strength or technique to manhandle his opponents and should be told by the coach to get more mobile ..and lead! Our forward line last game really confused the Hawks- Sharman trying to take hangers, Caminiti running around deep and putting physical pressure on, and Butler and Higgins always dangerous with the ground ball. With Max in, the forward line seems to become Max or nothing, and I would like to see him played up high on the forward half with the brief to just run and make a target. Three taller forwards all flying for marks does disorganise a backline.

[SinCitySainter]

I don't think it is Max's fault that he doesn't gather kicks up on the wing I think it is a coaching directive.
When we have the ball our strategy is to bomb it to 20 metres out in front.
We did it on the weekend to but Hawthorns defense is deplorable and it meant our forwards had an easy time.
I cannot believe that that approach is anything other than deliberate by the coach, as it is the same week in week out, therefore I think it means that King is meant to stay home.
It is no surprise that intercept defenders have generally had a field day against us.
On Sunday we played a defensive role against Sicily with brought other forwards into the game maybe we should do a similar role on Weitering.

[Banger9798]

King will get better and better.
22 and hasn't got his body yet.
Still super dangerous and kicks enough goals.


In 3 years :

Higgins King Sharman

Owens Caminiti Butler

Will be a very powerful forward line