David King and Whateley analysis of what's gone wrong this year

[nefron55]

Worth a watch -- really good analysis. They discuss individual players, Ross, gameplan, talent deficit etc

[Devilhead]

And we have lost 5 games 10pts or under

A bit of luck here, a bit of luck there, an injury less here, a suspension less there .... and maybe we win 3 or 4 of those

It's true we aren't playing great .... currently .... but I don't it will take much to turn it around

Agree with Kingy that we are too static .... we need to be more daring, more run and gun, take risks, back our backline in save the day if we turn the ball over and get it back.

The players need to wake up and get on their bikes and harden up

[Otiman]

We are not playing to win games. We are playing to be competitive in them.

That much is clear.

Add no end game tactics, no scoreboard awareness, and we are playing like a team that doesn't care about the 4 pts each week.

Is that tanking? It's mighty close to it.

[Devilhead]

Kingy had a sly dig at Ross then ... Seb Ross

He had 14 disposals against Port and 14 against Hawks

He is supposed to be one of our experienced prime mid field movers ..... thanks Seb for all commitment to the Saints but time for you to be dropped or maybe just asked to hang em up .... as Kingy alluded to ... currently he is just plodding along.

[Killa]

The plodders are killing us.

The plodders playing FOR St Kilda.

[whiskers3614]

!

[whiskers3614]

When you can't say anything nice say nothing at all!

Best If I stay mute.

[Scollop]

When you can't say anything nice say nothing at all!

Best If I stay mute.

Doesn't matter to the apologists

Doesn't matter what you say. They'll attack any one who doesn't believe in the messiah coach

Doesn't matter how accurate or true the criticism...all criticism is unwarranted, unjustified and just a knee jerk reaction from hack journos.

[whiskers3614]

Never been Lyon's greatest fan!
He's either a genius for getting us so close with so many players way off their peak
OR his crappy negative gameplan has caused them to lose all rhythm and cohesion and to depend on dragging the opposition down rather than try and lift themselves.
The press conferences only exacerbate the frustration with the game!

[Otiman]

I haven't heard the line "this group is so coachable" at any time this year.

[whiskers3614]

I haven't heard the line "this group is so coachable" at any time this year.

What does that even mean?
Talks in monologue/riddles at press conferences like some great guru.
If you don't understand you must be stupid!

[bobmurray]

I haven't heard the line "this group is so coachable" at any time this year.

What does that even mean?
Talks in monologue/riddles at press conferences like some great guru.
If you don't understand you must be stupid!

I wish he'd finish a sentence before he starts on another.

[Teflon]

I haven't heard the line "this group is so coachable" at any time this year.

What does that even mean?
Talks in monologue/riddles at press conferences like some great guru.
If you don't understand you must be stupid!

You mean you preferred the regular insights Brett offered after “Gday Saints fans….”
Bizarre

[whiskers3614]

Who mentioned Ratten?

[Devilhead]

G'day Saints fans ... yeah look it was a very disappointing night and the not the result we were looking for..... we made an enormous amount of skill errors which is just not usually us and hopefully its not a trend .....

[Yorkeys]

When you can't say anything nice say nothing at all!

Best If I stay mute.

Doesn't matter to the apologists

Doesn't matter what you say. They'll attack any one who doesn't believe in the messiah coach

Doesn't matter how accurate or true the criticism...all criticism is unwarranted, unjustified and just a knee jerk reaction from hack journos.

Need to dial back the hyperbole, your glee at us losing so you can can Ross is nauseating.
OK you are not a fan of R. Lyon but be realistic.
You think we have a great talented list?
It's Ross' fault Membrey can't catch a cold?Seb lacks the skills needed to be a modern midfielder? Max can't hold a clutch mark? players have brain fades?
Mate you can clearly make a silk purse from a pigs ear but you are exceptional.
I am hoping and supporting Ross to work through where we are at get the best combinations together and we salvage something. If you can show throwing your righteous stones is better please proceed. Using journos to validate your personal negative feelings about our coach is rubbish.

[Otiman]

I haven't heard the line "this group is so coachable" at any time this year.

What does that even mean?
Talks in monologue/riddles at press conferences like some great guru.
If you don't understand you must be stupid!

Last year the reference was that the team over-corrected when coached. It was a back handed compliment.

[Vortex]

Talent anyone?

[Scollop]

When you can't say anything nice say nothing at all!

Best If I stay mute.

Doesn't matter to the apologists

Doesn't matter what you say. They'll attack any one who doesn't believe in the messiah coach

Doesn't matter how accurate or true the criticism...all criticism is unwarranted, unjustified and just a knee jerk reaction from hack journos.

Need to dial back the hyperbole, your glee at us losing so you can can Ross is nauseating.
OK you are not a fan of R. Lyon but be realistic.
You think we have a great talented list?
It's Ross' fault Membrey can't catch a cold?Seb lacks the skills needed to be a modern midfielder? Max can't hold a clutch mark? players have brain fades?
Mate you can clearly make a silk purse from a pigs ear but you are exceptional.
I am hoping and supporting Ross to work through where we are at get the best combinations together and we salvage something. If you can show throwing your righteous stones is better please proceed. Using journos to validate your personal negative feelings about our coach is rubbish.

Yorkeys,

There's all these discussions going on, but you and I and every Saints fan out there is frustrated because we see how the team is playing. It's not pretty.

The narrative around our list is just another excuse. We have played some very good football. It's just that the ugly footy seems to be the norm

Yes...we don't have a Scott Pendlebury or Luke Hodge as captain, but we do have 'some' experience. We do have a leadership group

This is what Leigh Matthews said last night when he was told about Ross Lyon's after match presser and the excuse about not having the means to get messages to the players.

"If you feel your players can't handle the moment....then you haven't trained them well enough during the week"

[Scollop]

We obviously have some personnel issues with injuries, but the main issue right now is the playing style.

We have to start playing an enjoyable brand so that the players do what comes natural to them. Win the footy. Get first use and share the footy with someone who is on the move. And practice attack a little more on the training track

Only positive reinforcement and belief in his players will get us out of this form slump

There needs to be positive energy generated from the head coach. He must lift the morale of his group and it's his responsibility to lift standards. It doesn't matter how...just get it done Ross

That doesn't mean we have to have more wins than losses for the rest of the year. I just want to see growth in our youngsters and green shoots. Better kicking for goal; 3-4 nice passages of play each game.

He took forever to drop Pou. Maybe Ross Lyon just needs good old fashioned selection integrity to play a part in his coaching. Maybe use a bit of fear and a bit of hard love on a few guys.

Yorkeys,

One other thing...I suggested dropping Max King after the North game. You said we'd be thumped (or words to that effect or we'd be sure to lose or something). How'd that work out?

[Teflon]

Who mentioned Ratten?

Well you clearly do t like Lyon so it’s reasonable to assume you’re a fan of his predecessor??

[Teflon]

I haven't heard the line "this group is so coachable" at any time this year.

What does that even mean?
Talks in monologue/riddles at press conferences like some great guru.
If you don't understand you must be stupid!

Geez you’ve been waiting to get this shyte off the liver for a while ! Go your hardest!
FWIW I enjoy Lyons pressers
He explains the win or loss very succinctly- none of this “yeah, nah just the vibe” trash we’ve had previously
But each to their own I guess …

[Killa]

How is Clarkson going with North Melbourne?

The same Clarkson who coached Hawthorn to premierships

So what has changed from Hawthorn to North Melbourne?

The positives thus far are Wilson and Henry who both add speed and skill

And we have blooded a couple of others who have shown promise

It is all process

The days of recruiting as North Melbourne did under Barassi back in the day are long since gone in the AFL

No matter the Coach being Brett or Ross the process goes on - and on and on because there is always next season

That was why Brett challenged the youth on our List, then Coffield, Clark, Battle and others to make positions in the side their own and carve out their own reputations - and he challenged Steele

Past that we have King, Wanganeen-Milera, Owens, Windhager and Phillipou all now with some experience

These kids and those we have sighted this year (so far) are all part of process

The only problem is there are 17 other Clubs and soon to be more

All in the same ball park

Some are gifted players such as the Daicos brothers under Father/Son

We have not been so gifted

[Sanctorum]

Whilst the buck stops with the senior coach in modern football coaching players and teams involves input from a number of other coaches at the club.

I share the view that it's surprising that Robert Harvey is responsible for the forwards as that was not his speciality when he played, in contrast to Corey Enright who was a champion defeneder and is in charge of the backlines.

Brendon Goddard has played most of his games as a utility with experience all over the ground, so midfield and stoppages is certainly not out of his league and it's an aspect of the game where the team, despite a lack of elite mids, is doing reasonably well.

I agree with the reported comments by Leigh Matthews that coaches should not have to rely on sending runners out to instruct individual players, as Lyon lamented after the last game.

This surely comes down to the onfield leadership team, and under Jack Steele that just isn't happening.

I liked the comments in the media about the magnificent leadership of Christian Petracca on the weekend, singlehandedly and desperately willing Melbourne to snatch a win. Petracca's highlights reel from that game ought to be screened over and over again to the Saints on-field leaders - that's what real leadership is all about!

It's no coincidence that most of the successful teams have at least one tearaway elite midfield leader - like Christian Petracca, Patrick Dangerfield, Jordan De Goey, Zach Merrett - Port Adelaide have a few: Connor Rozee, Ollie Wines, Zak Butters and Jason Horne-Francis; all these blokes have pace to burn and a skill set to match, whilst the Saints have not one, though I have high hopes for Marcus Windhager!

There's a lot of talk about St Kilda chasing a free agent from another club and time will tell if they can find one to shift to Moorabbin, but there don't appear to be many....

[Otiman]

Ross needs to give the on field leaders license to make those calls in game.

I think he's still a bit too much of a control freak, despite the outward demeanor.