What has happened to the development of......

[st.mart]

the following players, and why have their careers not gone to plan.....

(the post on X, and after writing a brief history of Barry Brooks on another post it got me thinking about our top choices)


Barry Brooks: Tasmania U18, All Australian U18, First round pick 2001 (#15) - 7 AFL games in 6 seasons....Ruck

Matthew Ferguson: Vic Country U18, All Australian U18, Second round pick 2001 (#22) - 8 AFL games in 5 seasons....HB/HF

Raphael Clarke: Northern Territory U18, All Australian U18, First round pick 2003 (#8) - 21 AFL games in 4 seasons....Utility

Fergus Watts: Vic Metro U18, All Australian U18, First round pick 2003 (#14) - 6 AFL games in 4 seasons....CHF/FF

Andrew McQualter: Vic Country U18, All Australian U18, First round pick 2004 (#17) - 1 AFL games in 3 seasons....Rover/BP

David Armitage: Queensland U18, All Australian U18, First round pick (#9) - 2 games in 1 season....HB/Midfielder

All are highly credentialled juniors with good pedigree, all tested well, and high hopes were justified for all of them......how would our side be going if these players lived up to expectation...

Brooks......likely delistment, a real pity, the guy has unlimited talent.....but lack the application to make the most of it.....he is very laconic, which makes his efforts seem worse than they sometimes are (because of his skill, it is forgotten that he is 6'6")....his career is almost over, and it never took off......really disappointing for him, a great bloke from all reports....

Ferguson......could be delisted....his career has been marred by three things...1) Injury, every season he has been hampered. 2) development, he has been played out of position for 4 seasons due to a pathetic Scorps team (FB/CHB) 3) Opportunity, has never got one.....this seaon it has been a DISGRACE!

Raph........Lazy, and does not prepare his body well enough.....problems that run in the family.....Raph will not succeed at St.K until he stops believing that it is his god given right to be there, and to be an AFL player.....how he got a game this season straight out of the scorps twos was a JOKE....won't be delisted, but needs a kick up the arse or traded..

Fergus......Adelaide were filthy when he left....they thought he could really play....he was injured for a season there....and spent the last season and a half injured at Moorabbin...so who knows......IMO he will never be a star (due to a well documented lack of pace) but is tough and couragous, and he can take a catch.....won't be delisted...but needs to slim down in the off season....and get some run into his legs...possible delisting/trade

Mini......really lost his way at the start of this season, not sure WTF went on there - it seemed like he had lost all ability (it was obviously confidence).....he was a confident, gun junior with awesome leadership qualities....he made up for his lack of size, with pure aggression at the contest...he finished in the last couple in the time trials in pre-season(this is a a person who was in the top group for endurance at the DC) looked slow and unfit at Casey in earlier rounds, and couldn't get a kick.....IMO the problem stems back to the facination with bulking kids up that the GT regime had....Mini was a runner, and then 'bulked up' and it worked against him (and others.....Goddard, Ball)...he has spent most of 07 losing weight.....and it is paying dividends......he has had a great last 8 games at Casey.....his kicking depth is his biggest worry IMO (and size)...likely delistment

Armo - Only a first year.....but the club, and he would not be happy with a two game return for his fist year.....of ALL the draftees in 06 (gibbs included) it was thought he was the most 'ready made' of the crop.....due to the fact he has a mans body..(84kg) and his toughness....the simple problem with Armo is fitness, he is not fit enough to play AFL, not even VFL, where he cannot play a full game.....he does have all the attributes though......he will be quality - but that is what we thought about the whole list...will not be delisted.


All of these players at 18 were 'blue chip' investments......and should have been 150+ gamers.....not becase of where they were picked in the draft.....but why they were picked there..

[Otiman]

Anyone have a list of the U18 all-australian teams for the past 5 or 6 years?

[saintsRrising]

Good thoughtful post

[fonz_#15]

too early to question armitage, yet 2 games isn't enough so you are correct with that comment.

I still think fergy deserves a chance but i may be in the minority.

its over for Brooks imo and will leave it at that due to the page long debates over this in the past.

I have never warmed to Raph and frankly dont care much for him.

Mini is an interesting one..too many ahead of him at the moment, must improve to stay.

Watts deserves more time due to injuries but your right in saying he won't be a star.

[saintsRrising]

On Armo...Banfield has publically stated that he is not fit enough.

A huge pre-season should see him right for 2008.

[saintsRrising]

On the over muscling....my personal pet theory is that this had a lot to do with our string of hammy's...and now that we are more endurance foccused it will dissipate.

In athletics I look at sprinters...and they always seem fragile with lots of injuries...vs the long distance runners who just don't seem to suffer the same injury rate.

This is my gut feel & don't have any stats on....that I have have had for a while and posted on a while back...

[ausfatcat]

McAulter played more than one game

[my les foote]

Thanks for the review St. Mart

On McQualter, if they have stuffed up with his conditioning and he can actually play and is improving, why delist him?

With retirements and other delisting I'm sure there is no urgency to trim the list of guys who can play.

[The_Dud]

i think its a bit harsh having a go at Armo in his first year....

[luckysaint]

Agree with a lot of sentiments regarding poor development of players. However some of the problem does stem from selection.

[fonz_#15]

i think its a bit harsh having a go at Armo in his first year....

agreed, but it has been a disappointing return from a player who was supposed to be ready made to go at 18.

[locoplayaz]

Good post, but the answer is so obvious..

We have a core group of un-touchable players in our team, who can not be dropped regardless of form. We have these players because we thought/think they would/will bring us a flag. 2 Prelims in a row and now 2 injury ridden seasons. These core group of players play in the SAME positions as the fringe players who DO NOT get a game. For example: Roo plays CHF and G plays FF, when either one is missing Kosi takes over. And will permenantly when G retires. All 3 are un-touchable core players. That leaves Watts and Brooks s*** out of luck.

Brooks can play in the ruck, yes. But because we have always had bigger bodied more mature ruckman he won't/can't get a game. ie Ackland, Rix, M.Clarke, Kosi are all physically more mature than Brooksy. When Brooks does get a chance he only plays 5 mins or less in the ruck per qtr, so it is quite pointless to that degree. He dominates VFL because he can play 90% of each qtr running around the field (D.Cox like) picking up a stack of possessions and go fwd to be a target. Again his only downfall is his non-mature AFL body. (He must be a late developer) Anyone who has ever watched him play a game of ressies will see his a star at that level. But for whatever reason we won't give him a full game and over a period of time in the seniors?

Mini and Armo are in the same boat. How can they get a game ahead of core un-touchables such as: Dal, Ball, Harvs, Lenny and Joey. That's your 5 major mid-field positions right there. Past that you hit the bench and once you start there, you only become an impact player, ie: Fizz, Bakes and X. Now throw in the R.Lyon gameplan (Shut-down opposition at all costs) And you have Blake and Attard mid-field taggers. That's 10 mid-field players. + 2 rucks, 6 Backs and 4 Fwds. So you can see why they can't and won't get a game.

Ferguson and Raph same again, Backline players.. Core un-touchables - Max, Goose, Gram, Fish, Chips and BJ would you drop one of those for Ferg and Raph, I think not. With BJ out inj Gilbert has emerged and a 6'3 running hard and tough defender. that leaves Ferg, Raph, Gwilt and co same as the others s*** out of luck.

Personally I think it's un-fortunate that because of this situation we will never get to see the un-tired players in action. Hopefully Ross has seen something and this year or next after Max, G, Voss, Sammy, Harvs, M.Clarke, Thommo and co are gone they will have their chance to shine.

[loving_the_dal]

i think its a bit harsh having a go at Armo in his first year....

agreed, but it has been a disappointing return from a player who was supposed to be ready made to go at 18.

yeah agree too i thought we would have seen more of him this year..

[bigmicka]

McQualter has played 23 games.

mic

[spert]

GT clearly didn't put much emphasis on player development, and injury has been a factor for some. I think Watts and Brooks should be in the seniors from now on, but the rest of the players mentioned seem to me to be not up to senior level and should be delisted.

[borderbarry]

Re Raph, I agree with "How he got a game this season straight out of the scorps twos was a JOKE...." but it was'nt his fault. It was the selectors.
The same applys to much of the problems high-lighted in this thread.

[st.byron]

Good post, but the answer is so obvious..

We have a core group of un-touchable players in our team, who can not be dropped regardless of form. We have these players because we thought/think they would/will bring us a flag. 2 Prelims in a row and now 2 injury ridden seasons. These core group of players play in the SAME positions as the fringe players who DO NOT get a game. For example: Roo plays CHF and G plays FF, when either one is missing Kosi takes over. And will permenantly when G retires. All 3 are un-touchable core players. That leaves Watts and Brooks s*** out of luck.

Brooks can play in the ruck, yes. But because we have always had bigger bodied more mature ruckman he won't/can't get a game. ie Ackland, Rix, M.Clarke, Kosi are all physically more mature than Brooksy. When Brooks does get a chance he only plays 5 mins or less in the ruck per qtr, so it is quite pointless to that degree. He dominates VFL because he can play 90% of each qtr running around the field (D.Cox like) picking up a stack of possessions and go fwd to be a target. Again his only downfall is his non-mature AFL body. (He must be a late developer) Anyone who has ever watched him play a game of ressies will see his a star at that level. But for whatever reason we won't give him a full game and over a period of time in the seniors?

Mini and Armo are in the same boat. How can they get a game ahead of core un-touchables such as: Dal, Ball, Harvs, Lenny and Joey. That's your 5 major mid-field positions right there. Past that you hit the bench and once you start there, you only become an impact player, ie: Fizz, Bakes and X. Now throw in the R.Lyon gameplan (Shut-down opposition at all costs) And you have Blake and Attard mid-field taggers. That's 10 mid-field players. + 2 rucks, 6 Backs and 4 Fwds. So you can see why they can't and won't get a game.

Ferguson and Raph same again, Backline players.. Core un-touchables - Max, Goose, Gram, Fish, Chips and BJ would you drop one of those for Ferg and Raph, I think not. With BJ out inj Gilbert has emerged and a 6'3 running hard and tough defender. that leaves Ferg, Raph, Gwilt and co same as the others s*** out of luck.

Personally I think it's un-fortunate that because of this situation we will never get to see the un-tired players in action. Hopefully Ross has seen something and this year or next after Max, G, Voss, Sammy, Harvs, M.Clarke, Thommo and co are gone they will have their chance to shine.

Interesting perspective Loco. You're right, hard to drop any of the core group you've mentioned.

[saintsRrising]

GT clearly didn't put much emphasis on player development, and injury has been a factor for some. .

That is it in a nutshell....

[eppo67]

Good review St.Mart.

Armo will definately make it. Just as I watchhed Gibert play at Southport and was sure he would make it I'm equally sure after watching Armo at Morningside and in his few AFL games he will make it.

He will be compared to Hodge over the next 2 years. I'm sure.

[cwrcyn]

Ferguson is the unluckiest in that group. When he has played senior football he has been impressive, hardly putting a foot wrong, but was the first to be dropped under the old regime. He's been incredibly unlucky with the timing of his injuries. If he does play from this point on, I think he will be just as impressive as Sam Gilbert.

If he gets delisted I hope he gets a shot at another club and in my opinion will be a 100 game player once he's given a proper opportunity. He must be sick to death of missing out on a chance.

We may very much regret his lack of opportunities in the years to come.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

i think mini is contracted for next year so i dont think he will be delisted
Ferg was delisted last year and redrafted for god only knows reason so maybe this time the delisting will stick
brooks if he isnt gone then there is somthing really wrong
Watts will be kept but next year could be the last chance for him to crack the main squad

[Solar]

i think mini is contracted for next year so i dont think he will be delisted
Ferg was delisted last year and redrafted for god only knows reason so maybe this time the delisting will stick
brooks if he isnt gone then there is somthing really wrong
Watts will be kept but next year could be the last chance for him to crack the main squad

ferg was kept because of our injuries to maguire, kosi and maxy last year.

[st.mart]

That is my point with Ferg, Solar.......he is 2 inches and 10kg lighter than those players, why would he be a back up to them - he is set up to fail (like the prelim in 2005, playing on McGregor)......he is not getting a game as a key back, because he is not a Key Back.......

He should be a back up to (or in front of) L.Fisher, X, Raph, Voss, Goddard, Blake....as a medium utility....played on players a similar size or smaller, his marking would be a bonus, rather than basis of his game...

[Armoooo]

Anyone else think that Armo's fitness issues may have something to do with the fact that he was a smoker, or at least according to his myspace (I think we were pretty sure it was really his and not a fraud).

[saintsRrising]

Barry Brooks: Tasmania U18, All Australian U18, First round pick 2001 (#15) - 7 AFL games in 6 seasons....Ruck

Matthew Ferguson: Vic Country U18, All Australian U18, Second round pick 2001 (#22) - 8 AFL games in 5 seasons....HB/HF

Raphael Clarke: Northern Territory U18, All Australian U18, First round pick 2003 (#8) - 21 AFL games in 4 seasons....Utility

Fergus Watts: Vic Metro U18, All Australian U18, First round pick 2003 (#14) - 6 AFL games in 4 seasons....CHF/FF

Andrew McQualter: Vic Country U18, All Australian U18, First round pick 2004 (#17) - 1 AFL games in 3 seasons....Rover/BP

..

That is not a lot of developed value from a significant group of lowish draft picks...