Why no love for Attard?

[CURLY]

Its bothered me for a while why so many posters have Attard as someone who should be dropped and some who dont think he should be promoted permanatly. Attard has been what we have lacked for so long a reliable small defender or run with player hes courageous tackles well and while his skills arent superb they are solid and dependable. Surely he has been a big positive for us this year.

[TimeToShineFellas]

Its bothered me for a while why so many posters have Attard as someone who should be dropped and some who dont think he should be promoted permanatly. Attard has been what we have lacked for so long a reliable small defender or run with player hes courageous tackles well and while his skills arent superb they are solid and dependable. Surely he has been a big positive for us this year.

Also in agreeance with you there CURLY............

Maybe because he's not fashionable, who knows what goes through the minds of some people when they criticise players. I reckon he's definitely in the Bakes mould and can play at least 100 games for us (if promoted at season's end)

I am not fazed if he doesn't get that many stats (after all in the eyes of some people here, stats are irrelevant - shocking yes but true!) - as long as he negates his man, then he has done the role that RL and the coaching staff has marked for him.

If RL hadn't found this bloke and promoted him off the rookie list, I reckon Bakes would still be doing the job he's been doing for the last 5 years. It's given Bakes the freedom to work more up the ground and to throw his body in more......

imo..........

[Behind Play]

Its bothered me for a while why so many posters have Attard as someone who should be dropped and some who dont think he should be promoted permanatly. Attard has been what we have lacked for so long a reliable small defender or run with player hes courageous tackles well and while his skills arent superb they are solid and dependable. Surely he has been a big positive for us this year.

Also in agreeance with you there CURLY............

Maybe because he's not fashionable, who knows what goes through the minds of some people when they criticise players. I reckon he's definitely in the Bakes mould and can play at least 100 games for us (if promoted at season's end)

I am not fazed if he doesn't get that many stats (after all in the eyes of some people here, stats are irrelevant - shocking yes but true!) - as long as he negates his man, then he has done the role that RL and the coaching staff has marked for him.

If RL hadn't found this bloke and promoted him off the rookie list, I reckon Bakes would still be doing the job he's been doing for the last 5 years. It's given Bakes the freedom to work more up the ground and to throw his body in more......

imo..........

My sentiments exactly, you really wouldn't want to listen to half the stuff that is written on here.
This is his first season as a senior player, and obvioulsy he is impressing the coaching staff because he keeps getting picked.
Some tosser earlier this weeks was putting sh*t on Harvey........ for crying out loud, because he felt he had a bad game, what about the 351 great games he has had.

[n1ck]

Only half, BP? Thats generous!

[saintsRrising]

He is achieving the tasks that the coach has set him...

[TimeToShineFellas]

Some tosser earlier this weeks was putting sh*t on Harvey........

Reminds me of an old saying.............

"The more you argue with an idiot, the closer you are to becoming one"

[meher baba]

Maybe some of the Attard fans on this forum haven't been here very long.

But I have sat through post after post on this forum dumping endless loads of excrement on the likes of TS 40, Blake, McGough and other players who tried their guts out every week, but whose talent was thought to be extremely limited if non-existent.

Well, these three players certainly have their shortcomings (although Blake seems to be enormously in favour ATM), but I can't see that Attard is any better than any of them.

He has done extremely well for a no-name rookies unexpectedly propelled into the AFL. But, remember folks, 15 other clubs passed him up at the end of 2006 and so did we until right at the end of the rookie draft. Why? Because he is basically a hardworking athlete with very little ability.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

some ppl are not happy with any players and think they should all be dropped
i mean remember the fools who wanted to get rid of Roo ??
Attard has a specific job to do and he does it well . i remeber in previous seasons watching the saints play and bakes would totaly blanket his opponent only for some one else to pop up and start hurting us and wishing we had two bakes well now we do !!

[saintspremiers]

probally because it's not a case of "OMG Attard is soooo hot!"

[borderbarry]

Attard's weakness is that he does not get enough possessions. The better stoppers, such as Bakes, limit their opponents possessions while winning the ball themselves. Attard consistently gets under 10 possessions a game.

[Otiman]

I've said this time and again, and Attard is being used for the stopping roles that Baker once had, which frees up Bakes to play on a different opponent, or run more offensively.

However, he does not have an attacking bone in his body, to take it to the next level, he MUST make his opponent accountable, by getting 10+ possessions per game, it will further help his negating role by making sure his opponent keeps a closer eye on him when the saints have the ball.

[CURLY]

"meher babe" what does were you get picked up in the draft have to do with anything? Do the names Cox Rutten and even Milne mean anything to you. According to your theory Josh Fraser is a better footballer than Cox because Josh went at number one in the draft. Regardless of were a player is drafted if they play well they play well and thats what Attard is doing.

[djsburke]

my 6 year old son likes jayden attard. he gave him a ball after our win in round 13, he's now his favourite player. he has a magnet of jayden which he puts into his toy car and drives him around. looks cute.

[Behind Play]

If i remember correctly meher babe, Hird got picked up at 79

[TimeToShineFellas]

Fair points those, borderbarry and Otiman...........

No doubt he will have a great chance to improve on this facet of his game during pre-season, if RL and the Coaching Staff keep him on the list. Baker would be an excellent teacher as he has made the transition well, and knows how to get the pill and use it when on the attack.

Should be retained in my opinion.......

[Saint Bev]

Plenty of love from me for Attard, I think he has been amazing for someone in their first year. I think Ross might agree with me

[CURLY]

Attard is differant to stoppers like Ling Bakes and Sewell as they play primarily on other teams best mids while Attard plays deep in defence. I couldnt care if he average 5 possys a game as long as he beats his opponent .

[Stephen Theodore]

I've said this time and again, and Attard is being used for the stopping roles that Baker once had, which frees up Bakes to play on a different opponent, or run more offensively

Correct, not every player can play a flashy role. Whilst he has dropped off a little over the past 3 -4 weeks, I think he is an extremely disciplined player, maybe courtesy of 4 ? or so years in the Matthews system at Brisbane.

[saintsRrising]

Attard is differant to stoppers like Ling Bakes and Sewell as they play primarily on other teams best mids while Attard plays deep in defence. I couldnt care if he average 5 possys a game as long as he beats his opponent .

Exactly...fully agree



LOOK where he plays....THINK about what his assigned task is.



He is basically a stopper playing in the backline. If he moves to becomea full time midfield stopper then yes you will want more ball.

But as a back line stopper the only real measure is how much damage his opponents do...and by and large he has stopped them = job done.

And for thos who seem possession conscious....as the thought perhaps not dawned on you that the designated players to give he ball to are Sam and Gram (and BJ when fit)?????


I suppose Max is also a hack????? I mean Max is a backline stopper who does not wina lot of ball too????

Attard vs Max

19 2007 Games 9
3.0 Kicks Per Game 4.2
4.4 Handballs Per Game 4.8
7.4 Disposals Per Game 9.0
1.4 Marks Per Game 3.9
0.1 Goals Per Game 0
0 Behinds Per Game 0
2.8 Tackles Per Game 1.4
0 Hitouts Per Game 0.6
0.6 Frees For Per Game 0.7
0.4 Frees Against Per Game 0.8

For Max...


Career Season Averages (Since 2000)
Year Team Games Kicks Handballs Disposals Marks Goals Behinds Tackles Hitouts Frees For Frees Ag. Brownlow
2007 St Kilda 9 4.2 4.8 9.0 3.9 0 0 1.4 0.6 0.7 0.8
2006 St Kilda 21 5.6 4.9 10.5 4.9 0 0 2.0 0 0.4 0.9 0.05
2005 St Kilda 20 5.0 4.4 9.3 3.4 0 0 0.8 0 0.6 1.2
2004 St Kilda 16 5.9 4.7 10.6 3.8 0.1 0.1 1.4 0.1 0.6 0.5
2003 St Kilda 18 5.9 3.8 9.8 4.9 0.2 0 1.0 0.2 0.7 0.7 0.11
2002 St Kilda 17 5.5 4.3 9.8 3.8 0.2 0.1 0.6 0.2 1.0 0.2
2001 St Kilda 17 6.2 4.9 11.2 3.6 0.2 0.1 0.9 0 1.2 0.4
2000 St Kilda 22 6.4 4.4 10.8 3.4 0.1 0 1.4 0.3 1.0 1.2
Career 140 5.7 4.5 10.2 4.0 0.1 0 1.2 0.2 0.8 0.8 0.02

[meher baba]

OK, so we accept that Attard is a good "backline stopper" (although I'm still not convinced that it is all that easy to measure the effectiveness of such a player: given that the sorts of small-medium players he would be marking tend to run hot and cold in games.)

But what interests me is that we seemed to get along ok (indeed, had fewer points scored against us) in recent seasons without a "backline stopper". Sure, Baker played in the backline quite a lot in 2004, but in 2005 and 2006 he increasingly played in the midfield and not purely in a negative role. This year, despite supposedly being "freed up" by the advent of Attard, Baker seems much more invisible than he did last year: which I acknowledge might be more to do with him than where he is being played.

To me, the way Attard is being played in the team is a bit of a luxury for the defence. It's like having a 6-3-1 structure in soccer, which we see occasionally (especially from minnows playing against the top sides). He isn't good enough to hold down an out-and-out defensive role, nor an out-and-out midfield role. So he's an extra body at the back when we are desperately crying out for more oomph in attack.

No offence to Attard, it's just that I guess I'd like to see a bit less of the honest tradesmenlike stuff in our team and a bit more creativity and pizzazz: and (disregarding our pure ruckmen) Attard, along with Blake, is clearly one of the least creative players in our current line-up.

[saintsRrising]

Sure, Baker played in the backline quite a lot in 2004, but in 2005 and 2006 he increasingly played in the midfield and not purely in a negative role.

I don't think Bakes has ever beena high possession getter.....

Career Season Averages (Since 2000)
Year Team Games Kicks Handballs Disposals Marks Goals Behinds Tackles Hitouts Frees For Frees Ag. Brownlow
2007 St Kilda 17 7.5 7.5 15.0 5.1 0.3 0.2 3.4 0 0.8 1.4
2006 St Kilda 20 10.6 5.0 15.6 6.3 0.2 0 3.2 0 1.1 1.0
2005 St Kilda 24 8.1 5.2 13.3 4.0 0.1 0.1 2.5 0 0.7 0.8 0.04
2004 St Kilda 21 7.6 6.2 13.8 3.1 0.1 0.1 2.7 0 1.1 0.6
2003 St Kilda 21 6.0 4.3 10.3 2.5 0.2 0.1 3.0 0 0.7 0.8
2002 St Kilda 21 7.5 6.0 13.5 3.1 0.5 0 2.5 0 0.8 0.8 0.10
2001 St Kilda 18 5.3 7.3 12.6 2.7 0.1 0.1 2.4 0 0.7 0.3 0.06
2000 St Kilda 7 9.0 7.4 16.4 4.1 0.3 0.1 2.1 0 0.7 0.7
Career 149 7.6 5.9 13.5 3.8 0.2 0.1 2.8 0 0.8 0.8 0.03




On Attard....sure we would all love him to get more ball...BUT the key thing is for now that he stops his opponent...that is his function.

If he can develop to be better..FANTASTIC...but rember it is his first year with us, though admiteddly with time at the Lions prior.


As a "bottom six" player he is pretty handy.

If he can be developed into more then he will work his way up the usefulness list.

[plugger66]

I think Attard has been very good this year but I think he starting to tire as most young players do. He was not gettin possessions but stopping his player now he isnt even stopping his player. Might be time for a rest and get a more attacking player in to try and put some scoreboard pressure on the opposition.

[meher baba]

Sure, Baker played in the backline quite a lot in 2004, but in 2005 and 2006 he increasingly played in the midfield and not purely in a negative role.

I don't think Bakes has ever beena high possession getter.....

Career Season Averages (Since 2000)
Year Team Games Kicks Handballs Disposals Marks Goals Behinds Tackles Hitouts Frees For Frees Ag. Brownlow
2007 St Kilda 17 7.5 7.5 15.0 5.1 0.3 0.2 3.4 0 0.8 1.4
2006 St Kilda 20 10.6 5.0 15.6 6.3 0.2 0 3.2 0 1.1 1.0
2005 St Kilda 24 8.1 5.2 13.3 4.0 0.1 0.1 2.5 0 0.7 0.8 0.04
2004 St Kilda 21 7.6 6.2 13.8 3.1 0.1 0.1 2.7 0 1.1 0.6
2003 St Kilda 21 6.0 4.3 10.3 2.5 0.2 0.1 3.0 0 0.7 0.8
2002 St Kilda 21 7.5 6.0 13.5 3.1 0.5 0 2.5 0 0.8 0.8 0.10
2001 St Kilda 18 5.3 7.3 12.6 2.7 0.1 0.1 2.4 0 0.7 0.3 0.06
2000 St Kilda 7 9.0 7.4 16.4 4.1 0.3 0.1 2.1 0 0.7 0.7
Career 149 7.6 5.9 13.5 3.8 0.2 0.1 2.8 0 0.8 0.8 0.03

Well, a career average of 13.5 disposals per game (and more than 15 per game in the past few seasons) beats the hell out of Attard's slightly more than 7 per game in 19 games in 2007.

On Attard....sure we would all love him to get more ball

Not me. To be honest, I don't feel at all excited about Attard's long-term potential. He is a mature rookie who was brought in as a stopgap when we were ravaged by injuries.

Personally, I would like to see more players in the team with a broad range of skills, not just honest triers. i would like to see Armitage, Gwilt, Raph, Sweeney, etc. given a go in the AFL. If Attard is, as you say, a "bottom six" player, then why does he still seem to be one of the first picked when we have all but 3 or 4 of our list uninjured?

[mad saint guy]

Agree with MB here.

He has been handy this year, but his only strengths are his endurance, pace and discipline. He seems to be a poor reader of the play, his disposal is very unreliable and he certainly isn't a Glenn Archer type who can just throw his body around and have a huge presence without touching the ball.

He usually does a reasonable job of negating a small forward. He'll be happy if he picks up 6 disposals to his opponent's 10 disposals and 1 goal. That will be marked as a good game from him. But think of Vossy in 2004-2005 and Leigh Fisher in 2006. They would usually rack up at least 13 disposals, 8 marks, chop off a few opposition inside 50's and set up a few goals. And while doing this they would usually stop their opponent from having a real influence on the game. That is the performance of a quality small defender.

Attard is probably the most one-dimensional player on our list. When he completely tags his opponent out of the game it will look pretty good and it does help the team. But if his opponent gets the 2-3 goals that they usually would, then there is no benefit in having Attard in the team. If he doesn't tag well, then he contributes absolutely nothing and is just another passenger.

This year he has done his job of negating an opposition small forward pretty well. But the value of having him in the team if we're making a serious assault on the flag is very questionable.

[meher baba]

Thanks MSG

It now seems that we are not the only ones to have fallen out of love with Mr Attard.