Did anyone envisage this season when RL was appointed

[Life Long Saint]

Milne would have been swapped for some older player from the Dons..

When, in the last five years prior to this one, have we recruited someone older than 26?

Sugar would possibly be our ruck....

RL still wanted Sugar...But Sugar wanted more money...This was NOT a Ross Lyon decision for Ackland to leave.

Even Blake is playing better under RL than he did under GT!!!!!!!!!!

That is debatable! Blake is not rucking but he probably will this week with Rix and Clarke running around for Casey.

[Leo.J]

Most would argue that their game plan had nothing to do with their flag, but the 10 weeks with and unchanged lineup against other teams decimated was what got them over the line - and they did just fall over the line.
My biggest fear was that we would get sucked in to following the 'Sydney style' based on that above fact.

It seems like we did.

Most on here would and did agree at the time.

I wonder who would be coaching us now had Barry Hall got suspended like he should of?

[saintsRrising]

Milne would have been swapped for some older player from the Dons..

When, in the last five years prior to this one, have we recruited someone older than 26?

Milne >>>>>>>>>>>>>Johnson

[Teflon]

But if playing the sh|thouse brand of footy "well" wins you a premiership, would you complain?

I am yet to meet a Swans supporter who didn't love their '05 season.

And BTW, we have been averaging 14 goals per game since the break when we have had most of our players back ... we averaged 15 goals a game last year.

What a sad thread....your all bored huh?

F@rk I hope this side comes out next year under Lyon and blitzes.....just so I can recall all your sad sack sorry @sses for putting on your GT rose coloured glasses....I bet the lame sooks whingeing now will be first on board after a few wins............

Well said OWTS.

EVERYONE knows Lyon wants more accountability - the simple say we have just copied Sydney - we havent. Lyon is trying to instill the ability in this playing group to know when to attack and when to put up the shutters - it takes time...it also - as has been said ad nauseum by many better football judges than the clueless on here - WILL include personell changes that enable us to play this style effectively.

Grant had us trying to attack every week by copying an outdated Brisbane game plan with NO ruckman ????? (forget the fact the Lions game plan was BUILT around big rucks like Keating, Clarke and co...) only to come unstuck in the end when sides clogged the fwd line and he couldnt engineer a way past it.

What makes me laugh is....when we were struggling to beat floods etc ...Dodgerfox, Dan, MB and the like were telling us all it was players not playing to game plan...this year ITS ALL coach....remarkable....

I guess it comes down to who you like.....

[Carl Mynott]

One should never lose sight of the fact that message boards are a wank and there are always plenty of posts to support that theory...

It doesn't stop us from frequenting them and getting involved.......

It's the main reason i dont take it seriously......

[MC Gusto]

Teflon has it in a nutshell

what a bunch of saddos you are and how quickly you turn.

How many teams have prospered in their first year under a new coach??

Give the guy some time...a pre season and then we can rate.

RogerWA you list about ross not wanting the job quoting syd thi syd that...that is the biggest pile of s*** i have ever heard.

[cowboy18]

Envisage this season? Maybe not.

BUT... for starters, as a member since 1974 I expect;

False hope.
Real hope.
Shattered dreams.
Dreams coming true.
False dawns.
Premature celebration.
Wild celebrations.
Brave victories against the odds to show the rest of the comp what the shield on our guernsey means.
Average players doing great things
Great players doing great things.
Great players doing dumb things.
Absolute frustration.
Absolute joy.
And personality conflicts threatening our future only for the club to rise above it.


So the season is running true to form I guess.

It's part of what happens at our club (and most others) and it's part of why the I still dream that my team will pull through. One day. And in response to the OP, I still hope for this year...

[meher baba]

What makes me laugh is....when we were struggling to beat floods etc ...Dodgerfox, Dan, MB and the like were telling us all it was players not playing to game plan...this year ITS ALL coach....remarkable....

Teflon, I don't mind fair criticism, but in this instance you have verballed me. I can't speak for the others, but I have never complained about the players not playing to the game plan: not this year nor last year. I have always tended to blame injuries and endemic poor goalkicking for most of our problems, although this year I am certainly far from impressed with what our new coaching staff appear to be trying to serve up.

And I was always far from totally impressed with GT as well: I thought he was as inflexible a coach as Lyon. But one thing I'll say in GT's defence: his inflexibility came from his stubborness to change a plan that he and Rendell had thought through in great detail and which they believed was the best way to get the most out of the players they had at their disposal.

To me, Lyon appears to be inflexible because he doesn't have the confidence or insight to try anything different to the successful approach that he has been part of developing at the Swans. Worse still, I suspect that - at least in the early days - the board and management of the club were actually encouraging him to bring the Swans' style of play to the Sainters.

But I'm sure that Lyon is still capable of stepping up and becoming a top coach. However, unlike you and some others on this forum, I strongly believe that he won't do this simply by continuing along the path that he has already gone a long way down: he needs to reorient his approach quite radically.

[Leo.J]

...I guess it comes down to who you like.....

I think you'll find Teflon, that the reason why people are turning so readily is not the coaches, but the the actual game plan (GP) style.

Over the last few years our GP was based on attack, generally it was free flowing, and when we were firing we produced exciting, attractive footy, and we were reknowed for that. Opposition supporters watched our games as nuetral supporters because we had an exciting brand. And when we had our full line up on the park, we were near unstoppable, even when sides flooded against us.

This year even when we've won, it's been ugly, our games are generally frustrating and sometimes boring to watch.

Now we've had early setbacks, but despite having our best side on the park for nearly 2 years we still can't score freely and defeat teams that we should. I'm pretty sure that we will be a heaps better teamnext year, seeing much more on field success, as we would have perfected our GP by then.

However there's is no guarantees, there no guarantees that we will be successful, and there's no guarantees that we will be playing more attractive footy either.

At the end of the day IMO most people are put off by how we playing under RL, as ATM it aint pretty.

[Life Long Saint]

Milne would have been swapped for some older player from the Dons..

When, in the last five years prior to this one, have we recruited someone older than 26?

Milne >>>>>>>>>>>>>Johnson

Agree with that but do we have any Johnsons on our list? (no siggering, please)

Trade talk and trade action are ALWAYS two very different things.

It is not unreasonable to offer Milne up for offer. He is both one of the most exciting and disappointing players we have.

[saintsRrising]

He is both one of the most exciting and disappointing players we have.

....and in that one sentence you have summed up the Saints


exciting and disappointing players we have in too great quantity...



When all on song we can look very good....but too many go missing for various reasons including form and injury.

Dal Santo for example (and to be a fair...a much better player than Milne..and overalla good player...BUT he could bea GREAT player) takes you breath away in some games with his matrix magic where he just seems to be playing with more time than anyone else.,



But yet in other games you may hardly notice him......

Dal Santo

Milne

GTrain

Hamill

Gram

Kosi


X


If ONLY, if only they could all be harnessed week in week out..........

[Leo.J]

If ONLY, if only they could all be harnessed week in week out..........

Thats the coaches job isn't it? To get the best out of his players.

Some onus needs to go on the players, however if the coach can't get the best out of his players for what ever reason he won't last long...will he.

[Teflon]

What makes me laugh is....when we were struggling to beat floods etc ...Dodgerfox, Dan, MB and the like were telling us all it was players not playing to game plan...this year ITS ALL coach....remarkable....

Teflon, I don't mind fair criticism, but in this instance you have verballed me. I can't speak for the others, but I have never complained about the players not playing to the game plan: not this year nor last year. I have always tended to blame injuries and endemic poor goalkicking for most of our problems, although this year I am certainly far from impressed with what our new coaching staff appear to be trying to serve up.

9/10 of your posts since Lyon has taken overf have been about how bad our game plan. How hypocritical to suggest you have never balmed game plans...then proceed to do it ad nauseum when GT has gone and Lyon has taken over and isnt through season 1 yet.

And I was always far from totally impressed with GT as well: I thought he was as inflexible a coach as Lyon. But one thing I'll say in GT's defence: his inflexibility came from his stubborness to change a plan that he and Rendell had thought through in great detail and which they believed was the best way to get the most out of the players they had at their disposal.

You know nothing. You summise worse than Patrick Smith in an attempt to sound informed. Quite simply Thomas copied Brisbanes game plan. It failed. If thats your idea of "in depth analysis" then good luck to you........its hardly mine. I know already Lyon has a far better technical grasp of the game than Thomas ever did.

To me, Lyon appears to be inflexible because he doesn't have the confidence or insight to try anything different to the successful approach that he has been part of developing at the Swans. Worse still, I suspect that - at least in the early days - the board and management of the club were actually encouraging him to bring the Swans' style of play to the Sainters.

You "suspect" the Borad encouraged the coach to play a certain way...you really reckon the Board have said...."hey Ross...can we just rip Sydney off.....its that easy right?"........geezus have a listen to yourself man.....You accuse Lyon of being inflexible - FFS hes coached 18 games with no pre season? Is he not entitled to at least a full season/pre season before you "assume"...(again) he is inflexible????

But I'm sure that Lyon is still capable of stepping up and becoming a top coach. However, unlike you and some others on this forum, I strongly believe that he won't do this simply by continuing along the path that he has already gone a long way down: he needs to reorient his approach quite radically.

Last point - fair enough thats your view. I disagree entirely. I do not believe Lyons is attemtping to turn us into Sydney.......its as dumb as turning Roo into Barry Hall......wont happen and cant we have a different mix and he knows that. As Ive said for a long time there are elements of the Sydney style he wants in our game - we have so far IMO failed to execute these things for a variety of reasons eg fitness (interrrupted pre seasons), player type/skill level, age, lack of ball carriers through the middle....and dont tell me as Dan does that Grams a midfielder cause he aint... (and that does include some leg speed).

Lyon will change facets of his coaching - its natural ..no one steps into a job and doesnt do an adjustment........but the negativity from some on this site for a coach 18 games in is remarkable...... it isnt?
I

[stinger]

I know I was looking forward to a St Kilda team that remained free flowing and high scoring, yet played hard, tough football when the pressure was on. The dream is slowly fading...

of course a few of us did...hence the angst against butterballs..........

[Teflon]

If ONLY, if only they could all be harnessed week in week out..........

Thats the coaches job isn't it? To get the best out of his players.

Some onus needs to go on the players, however if the coach can't get the best out of his players for what ever reason he won't last long...will he.

Could last up to 5 yrs under that criteria....

[Teflon]

...I guess it comes down to who you like.....

I think you'll find Teflon, that the reason why people are turning so readily is not the coaches, but the the actual game plan (GP) style.

Over the last few years our GP was based on attack, generally it was free flowing, and when we were firing we produced exciting, attractive footy, and we were reknowed for that. Opposition supporters watched our games as nuetral supporters because we had an exciting brand. And when we had our full line up on the park, we were near unstoppable, even when sides flooded against us.

This year even when we've won, it's been ugly, our games are generally frustrating and sometimes boring to watch.

Now we've had early setbacks, but despite having our best side on the park for nearly 2 years we still can't score freely and defeat teams that we should. I'm pretty sure that we will be a heaps better teamnext year, seeing much more on field success, as we would have perfected our GP by then.

However there's is no guarantees, there no guarantees that we will be successful, and there's no guarantees that we will be playing more attractive footy either.

At the end of the day IMO most people are put off by how we playing under RL, as ATM it aint pretty.

I agree Leo and its true most people are generally stupid and dont look to the reasons why we may not be paying the way we did in 04....Im not going into these in detaisl (its been done to death) suffice to say:

We have a new coach,
The game has changed markedly since Lions won 3 in a row,
Weve had a shyte injury run AND
Perhapsmost importantly this squad is not the 04 or 05 squad - I suspect age is catching a few fast...a few have stagnated......and a few dropped right off.............thats footy.

As for us supposedly "having our nest side on the park for the last 2 yrs" thats not entirely true is it?

[stinger]

[....just so I can recall all your sad sack sorry @sses for putting on your GT rose coloured glasses....



I guess it comes down to who you like.....

rose coloured glasses are the same colour whether they are thomas ones or lyon's ones........



but we are still crap.......with our without the glasses.....

[stinger]

I agree Leo and its true most people are generally stupid

well...they might be in the circles that you move in........

[saint66au]

I agree Leo and its true most people are generally stupid and dont look to the reasons why we may not be paying the way we did in 04.

Excuse US for living

[JeffDunne]

In answer to the question posed in the thread title . . . I had no idea what to expect when Lyon was appointed and that's why I couldn't understand the risk we decided to take.

Once preseason started though it was pretty clear we would struggle for the same reasons we fell short last year.

[Life Long Saint]

I agree Leo and its true most people are generally stupid and dont look to the reasons why we may not be paying the way we did in 04....Im not going into these in detaisl (its been done to death) suffice to say:

We have a new coach,
The game has changed markedly since Lions won 3 in a row,
Weve had a shyte injury run AND
Perhapsmost importantly this squad is not the 04 or 05 squad - I suspect age is catching a few fast...a few have stagnated......and a few dropped right off.............thats footy.

As for us supposedly "having our nest side on the park for the last 2 yrs" thats not entirely true is it?

Well at least I'm not stupid enough to hit submit without proof reading my post!

[meher baba]

Teflon, I don't mind fair criticism, but in this instance you have verballed me. I can't speak for the others, but I have never complained about the players not playing to the game plan: not this year nor last year. I have always tended to blame injuries and endemic poor goalkicking for most of our problems, although this year I am certainly far from impressed with what our new coaching staff appear to be trying to serve up.

9/10 of your posts since Lyon has taken overf have been about how bad our game plan. How hypocritical to suggest you have never balmed game plans...then proceed to do it ad nauseum when GT has gone and Lyon has taken over and isnt through season 1 yet.

You don't get it, do you Teffers? I'm happy to be highly critical of game plans - both GT's and Lyon's (and Sheldon's and Alves's and Watson's and Blight's if you want). But I don't buy into the idea of saying "there's nothing wrong with the gameplan, it's just the players' failure to execute it". Without being on the inside, it's too hard for me to work out the distinction between what the coach wants and what the players actually deliver. I just assume that the players are at least attempting to do what the coach wants, and then try to form a view of the coach's plans. I also look at the performances of individual players, but I don't get off on the "all the players should go and have a themselves, they were a collective disgrace" sort of comment, which you seem to favour.

color=blue]Quite simply Thomas copied Brisbanes game plan. It failed.... I know already Lyon has a far better technical grasp of the game than Thomas ever did.[/color]

So that's it, is it? That's the sum total of Thomas's coaching strategy? A direct copy of Brisbane's game plan? You can seriously (well, I can only presume you are serious) come up with that drivel and then have the hide to dump all over my analysis?

And how did Thomas's game plan fail exactly, genius? Must have been in that it won us too many games and enabled us to score too many points!!

[bigcarl]

And how did Thomas's game plan fail exactly, genius? Must have been in that it won us too many games and enabled us to score too many points!!

the lesson out of all this, teflon, is that if it's not broken don't fix it.

i am looking forward, mate, not back ... i don't particularly like what i see, but i am looking forward. let's hope next season is not a repeat of the dross served up so far this season

[evertonfc]

I don't want us to be another Sydney, even if there's a flag in it.

See, I agree with most things in this thread, but I'd flood 24/7 if it meant we could win a flag.

Seriously, we shouldn't have sacked Thomas - it's clear it wasn't football related (watch RB's warriors jump all over that call). I think most people see that. However, that's no excuse for not backing RL if he does the right things.

Sadly, he's making a lot of mistakes early in his tenure. I'm prepared to give him time before jumping on him, but some of his strategies are not what I'd associate with good coaching.

Why you'd flood doubly as hard when chasing a result, against Sydney of all teams, is Tim Watson-esq.

There's a lot of rough edges to Ross's game plan and he needs to realise what it takes to create a hard and fast team, not just one who floods for the sake of flooding.

Don't get me wrong, defensive football is extremely important, and we lacked it sometimes under GT. It's about balance - and we've definitely not got it. Steps must be taken to rectify it. West Coast, Geelong and the Kangaroos have proven that whilst a strong defence is vital, kicking goals is still the name of the game.

I used to think no matter what, we could kick a winning score. I don't know about that any more. It's a bit scary.

Still, we must give RL time, even if we don't trust him yet.

My final thought would be that when he was hired, I said we'd probably fall just short of the eight as a result of his appointment. It seemed like an outrageous time to change coaches; surely you'd wait for the incumbant to run his course, not usurp him after three straight finals series. It was a confusing decision, explained badly to the club's members and still unvindicated to this day.

I also felt it would hurt the incoming coach, whoever it was. And to hire him during trade week - and not before - was the icing on the cake. GT was dudded and, as a result of subsequent delays, RL was hamstrung.

Everybody lost out, and I feel sorry for the fans, the players, Grant Thomas and Ross Lyon.

Bad off-field decisions have hurt this club more than any of RL's tactics, to be honest.

[JeffDunne]

Fantastic post everton.