charlie gardiner....

[plugger66]

St Kilda = Hack central.

I thought we were moving forward after getting rid of all our old players...but adding Jones, King, Gardiner and Dempster onto the list just sends us further backwards. Hopefully we will at least cut Ferguson and maybe Rix now. I just don't understand why we are trading for players who just won't make a positive impact.

Look at the new players

Schneider - He is the one player I am genuinely happy to have. He adresses our lack of goalkicking half forwards and adds some spark into the team

Dempster - There is nothing that Dempster can do that Blake, Raph Clarke and Ferguson can't do. I didn't mind us trading for him, but it is unrealistic to expect him to play 100 games for St Kilda. He couldn't get a game when Sydney were missing their CHB and FB. He won't add anything.

King - Played about 5 games this year and none were actually good. He spends more time injured than playing and can't cover the amount of ground required in modern football. He is a less mobile version of Rix,

Gardiner - He is a forward who doesn't get the ball and very rarely kicks goals. Utterly useless.

I thought we were getting rid of the deadwood, but we are simply replacing it.

Gehrig, Hamill, Voss, Thompson, M.Clarke > Jones, Schneider, Dempster, King, Gardiner

So we get 3 premiership players for pick 26 and you are upset. I thought you had some idea but know I am not so sure.

[Zed]

charlie is not in our best 18 and would be there to add some depth to the list only. If he plays more than a half dozen games then I'm assuming that we will have run into injuries yet again.

He is better than what we would have got for pick 90.

Welcome Charlie - do us all a favour - blossom and prove me and all these other know alls wrong !

[Unforgiven]

He is better than what we would have got for pick 90.

That's the main reason im not too dissapointed by picking him up. We saw with Sweeney and Raymond that those late late smokies don't pay off that well.

[Viking3]

EvertonFC is the first one who I think has seen the deal correctly (although I dislike Everton, go Reds). I would think Geelong said you want King you take Gardiner as well. Better option than waiting, with fingers crossed, for the PSD. Geelong have off loaded Callan, Playfair, King and Gardiner. Not huge names but earning a quid. I think they may have some salary cap issues and needed to free up some $. Adding a few 18 year olds is a bit cheaper!

[Dan Warna]

premiership players are all stars, we should ahve got aaron keating when we had the chance

dempster isn't that much AT the moment, he may be decent in the future but really we picked him up because sydney felt that at 23 he had no future in their premiership hopes.

schneider is a top GOP but he isn't a gun, he maybe a gun, but atm he is probably where guera was at 21/22.

IMO we got ahead on this trade, but realistically unless there is dramatic form reversal from some players, I suspect by 2009 2010, only schneider will be on our list from the 4 we took this week.

I would love to see dumpster and gardiner turn it all around, but at 25 in march gardiner isn't going to get that much better.

[carn_sainter]

being a 'premiership player' is grossly overrated...

for what it's worth, schneider is a very good get...

dempster and gardiner are vfl players really...with fitness, a wake up call, a connection with ross, and some luck they could become valuable...but really, it's close to just wasted cap space (even though it has to be spent)...they are depth players

king is very injury prone but is a good prospect...played a good GF


in the context that we basically got 3 players for nothing except list spots means we've done well...they all could be good, king really should contribute straight away

we're in a position where if everything goes right, we've done very well...but whether or not it does go right is another thing altogether

at the end of the week, i think we did pretty well

**a ruckman who is as good as (or better than) any other option we have, minus kosi
**a gem HFF
**a depth defender who could be of huge value in releasing more attacking players like raph, bj and sam fisher
**a depth HFF who was popular a couple years ago, a cut above vfl (like TS40 was) and who could get fit and be pretty good...basically a very poor man's steve johnson at the moment

[st_Trav_ofWA]

seriously i cant belive ppl not being happy with what we have got from the trades

we lost nothing not on player gave up pick 26 and got 3 guys who have played and won on the last day in september

come on ppl this is good news

a premeirship ruckman for pick 90 that we would of passed on anyway !!!

i spose some ppl can never be satisfyed

[st_Trav_ofWA]

being a 'premiership player' is grossly overrated...

try explaining that to bangers

[carn_sainter]

difference between the actual winning of a premiership and being a 'premiership player'...the act of winning doesn't actually make you much better...

trust me, king didn't jump 10% in performance because of a 2hr game

[Dan Warna]

being a 'premiership player' is grossly overrated...

try explaining that to bangers

sure, aaron keating must be a better player than banger because he had a premiership...

had we won in 97 would that make jason daniels a better player than chris grant?

I am pretty sure I said Dempster/king/schneider would be proud and have EVERY right to be proud of their premierships.

we imported premiership players from hawthorn in the late 80s, I think we had a fair few running around in our team, the reality was only some of them (russell morris, dean anderson) were really much chop, and even then they were cleared out because hawks had better options at the time.

you only ahve to see folks drooling at the table of essendon and brisbane to realise just bringing in players doesn't change the intrinsic culture of a team.

[perfectionist]

Those who bag Jason Blake are entitled to their opinions, even if they are morons. As for Gardiner, we'd have more luck with Chauncey!

[SaintBot]

however coming from a lifestyle where he got everything he wanted his obviously didnt have the same killer attitude that all the battlers at geelong had

Can you elaborate? This is too cryptic for me without some sort of context.

i know the lady who tutors all the players at geelong, especially the younger ones (25 or younger) - obviously she is very involved with the club


now i asked her maybe two or three months ago who on the list was different to the others and she nominated Playfair and Gardiner.

she said that whilst the bartels, abletts, etc have had tough up bringings due to family/personal reasons (i wont go into to much detail) and therefor their attitude towards their footy and for their willingness to work hard was a lot higher than say the gardiners and playfairs who have been blessed with good talent but arnt all that willing to work to their potential

[st_Trav_ofWA]

being a 'premiership player' is grossly overrated...

try explaining that to bangers

sure, aaron keating must be a better player than banger because he had a premiership...

had we won in 97 would that make jason daniels a better player than chris grant?

I am pretty sure I said Dempster/king/schneider would be proud and have EVERY right to be proud of their premierships.

we imported premiership players from hawthorn in the late 80s, I think we had a fair few running around in our team, the reality was only some of them (russell morris, dean anderson) were really much chop, and even then they were cleared out because hawks had better options at the time.

you only ahve to see folks drooling at the table of essendon and brisbane to realise just bringing in players doesn't change the intrinsic culture of a team.

not saying that at all but the fact that so few players in the comp ever become premiship players its worth aknowlleging that
the fact is all premiership players are deemed to be in the best 22 of the best team in the comp in that particular year and when we are talking pick 90 any player who can play in our top 22 is gotta be a good get

in no way am i sayng a player is better cause he has a premirship medalion but dont discount the fact he has got one

[mad saint guy]

So we get 3 premiership players for pick 26 and you are upset. I thought you had some idea but know I am not so sure.

I would rather just Schneider for pick 26 than Schneider, Dempster, King and Gardiner. Do you not realise that these players add absolutely nothing to the team?

Being a premiership player means nothing. Being a player who helped win a premiership means something.

Dempster was a complete passenger and has only ever been in the Sydney team to plug holes. King was brought in because their other ordinary ruckman was in poor form and King used to be club captain. He was reasonable in the grand final, but if Geelong didnt have that huge win he would have been hugely criticized for the stupid, reckless free kicks he was giving away and the fact that he hardly won a hitout all day.

We have got one good half forward, a useless ruckman, another defensive flanker with no talent and a lazy forward who can't kick for pick 26. If you want to take the rose-coloured view and see it as 3 premiership players including an AA ruckman then fine, but don't be surprised when they actually add nothing to the team.

[plugger66]

So we get 3 premiership players for pick 26 and you are upset. I thought you had some idea but know I am not so sure.

I would rather just Schneider for pick 26 than Schneider, Dempster, King and Gardiner. Do you not realise that these players add absolutely nothing to the team?

Being a premiership player means nothing. Being a player who won a premiership means something.

Dempster was a complete passenger and has only ever been in the Sydney team to plug holes. King was brought in because their other ordinary ruckman was in poor form and King used to be club captain. He was reasonable in the grand final, but if Geelong didnt have that huge win he would have been hugely criticized for the stupid, reckless free kicks he was giving away and the fact that he hardly won a hitout all day.

So King isnt better than Rix, Brooks and Blake in the ruck. Well you surely cannot be serious. He will be number 1 or 2 ruckman. Gardiner I agree may not be up to it and Dempster who knows. So for pick 26 we get a very good HFF and a number 1 or 2 ruckman. I do not see the problem at all.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

So we get 3 premiership players for pick 26 and you are upset. I thought you had some idea but know I am not so sure.

I would rather just Schneider for pick 26 than Schneider, Dempster, King and Gardiner. Do you not realise that these players add absolutely nothing to the team?

Being a premiership player means nothing. Being a player who won a premiership means something.

Dempster was a complete passenger and has only ever been in the Sydney team to plug holes. King was brought in because their other ordinary ruckman was in poor form and King used to be club captain. He was reasonable in the grand final, but if Geelong didnt have that huge win he would have been hugely criticized for the stupid, reckless free kicks he was giving away and the fact that he hardly won a hitout all day.

so you would prefer we just stuck our heads in the sand and persisted with rix and hope gardi comes good ?? it cost us nothing and a worse we delist him next year i mean some ppl were talking about keeping brooks so we dont have to delist one of the good players next year

[supersaints]

Hi

I don't know Charlie Gardiner at all. Can you tell me what position he plays? Is he fast or slow? Kicking skills? Handball? Reading of the play?

I've never heard of him before. Any info would be appreciated.

And... welcome Charlie! Good luck to you with the Saints. I hope the change of clubs brings you (and us) a lot of luck!

Cheers
Mark

Plays as a half forward, and plays quite tall , (I actually think he is taller than 190 cm although that's what he is listed as, I would say 192). Can take a good grab, reasonably mobile - but not quick . He reads the game ok. The only problem I see with him is that he fails to impose himself physically , and would probably fit the old handbag image, (- on this I hope I am wrong), never really seemed to try too hard not desperate enough I'm sure Ross thinks he may have the goods its very possible that he thought. My thoughts are that with Johnson reinventing himself and the Hairy cat not being suspended and they think Tomahawk will be looking the goods this year, he would struggle to get a game........hopefully he can impose himself on the forward line
Getting chopped by the Cats may provide him with all the motivation he needs!

[LTN16]

St Kilda = Hack central.
King - Played about 5 games this year and none were actually good.

Watch the 2007 Grand Final mate

Didn't know hacks could make the AA Team.

[mad saint guy]

So King isnt better than Rix, Brooks and Blake in the ruck. Well you surely cannot be serious. He will be number 1 or 2 ruckman. Gardiner I agree may not be up to it and Dempster who knows. So for pick 26 we get a very good HFF and a number 1 or 2 ruckman. I do not see the problem at all.

If King gets on the ground he should be marginally better than Rix, Brooks and Blake. However this might mean that he ends with 20 hitouts instead of 16, with an extra 1 or 2 to advantage. It really has no impact on the result of the game. He isn't going to beat opposition ruckmen and he offers very little around the ground. The highest number of kicks he had in 2007 was 5. Steven King being in the team will not mean that we win any more games. He will be gone in one or two years and will go down as yet another recycled hack ruckman who has done nothing for St Kilda.

I wasn't unhappy with Dempster after the first trade, but I don't expect him to ever be a quality player for St Kilda. He gives us another option for a tagger and will put pressure on Blake to hold his position.

There really doesn't appear to be a reason as to why we traded for Gardiner. He has never played a good match in his 51-game career and looked certain to be delisted. While Geelong have obviously improved out of sight this year, if he couldn't get a game in their pathetic forward line of 2006 then why the hell would we want him? Would much rather play Allen in that role than let him waste an opportunity to develop our own talent.

[plugger66]

So King isnt better than Rix, Brooks and Blake in the ruck. Well you surely cannot be serious. He will be number 1 or 2 ruckman. Gardiner I agree may not be up to it and Dempster who knows. So for pick 26 we get a very good HFF and a number 1 or 2 ruckman. I do not see the problem at all.

If King gets on the ground he should be marginally better than Rix, Brooks and Blake. However this might mean that he ends with 20 hitouts instead of 16, with an extra 1 or 2 to advantage. It really has no impact on the result of the game. He isn't going to beat opposition ruckmen and he offers very little around the ground. The highest number of kicks he had in 2007 was 5. Steven King being in the team will not mean that we win any more games. He will be gone in one or two years and will go down as yet another recycled hack ruckman who has done nothing for St Kilda.

I wasn't unhappy with Dempster after the first trade, but I don't expect him to ever be a quality player for St Kilda. He gives us another option for a tagger and will put pressure on Blake to hold his position.

There really doesn't appear to be a reason as to why we traded for Gardiner. He has never played a good match in his 51-game career and looked certain to be delisted. While Geelong have obviously improved out of sight this year, if he couldn't get a game in their pathetic forward line of 2006 then why the hell would we want him? Would much rather play Allen in that role than let him waste an opportunity to develop our own talent.

What King will do that the other ruckman dont do is privide on contest. Possesions arent the be all and end all. Keating helped win Brisbane a flag because he belted the ball in the ruck not the kicks he got around the ground. King is not marginally better than our other ruckmen he is a whole lot better.

[stinger]

Those who bag Jason Blake are entitled to their opinions, even if they are morons. As for Gardiner, we'd have more luck with Chauncey!

i loved that movie...


"i like to watch"...................lmfao......

[mad saint guy]

St Kilda = Hack central.
King - Played about 5 games this year and none were actually good.

Watch the 2007 Grand Final mate

Didn't know hacks could make the AA Team.

The Grand Final? The game in which his kicks tally equalled his free kicks against tally?

But I suppose his awsome 10 hitouts means that he dominated and won them the flag. Yep, guaranteed superstar that will lead us to glory.

What King will do that the other ruckman dont do is privide on contest. Possesions arent the be all and end all. Keating helped win Brisbane a flag because he belted the ball in the ruck not the kicks he got around the ground. King is not marginally better than our other ruckmen he is a whole lot better.

All our other ruckman just look around while the opposition take possession of the ball and clear it uncontested do they? We don't consistently concede 20 hitouts to advantage every game. It would be more like 6-8, and King won't change that.

[tcm]

Geelong man here... not trolling, just wanting to give you some heads up on Charlie.

Especially as a pseudo-midfielder, Charlie gets the ball quite well. Good hands. Good on the lead. Understands where the ball is headed. Good displosal off both sides (don't understand where the 'can't kick' comments are coming from, to be honest).

Decision making is his big problem. Classic "rabbit in the headlights" syndrome. How you cure THAT problem at 25 is an interesting question, but if you can, you've got a better than average footballer.

Interesting that, on a list for list, basis, you'd pick him up (but that's borderline-troll).

[saintsRrising]

Geelong man here... not trolling, just wanting to give you some heads up on Charlie.

Especially as a pseudo-midfielder, Charlie gets the ball quite well. Good hands. Good on the lead. Understands where the ball is headed. Good displosal off both sides (don't understand where the 'can't kick' comments are coming from, to be honest).

Decision making is his big problem. Classic "rabbit in the headlights" syndrome. How you cure THAT problem at 25 is an interesting question, but if you can, you've got a better than average footballer.

Interesting that, on a list for list, basis, you'd pick him up (but that's borderline-troll).

thanks for the info.


With Hamill retired we don't have any medium forwards.....so he hasa chance to graba spot...

[claystreet]

Interesting that, on a list for list, basis, you'd pick him up (but that's borderline-troll).

Probably was part of the deal we pay his contract out etc
and recieve King for nothing