Did anyone hear Ausie Jones on ABC radio re Saints gameplan?

[loris]

In Perth his comments came later on in the post match summary with Stan Alves. Aussie said something along the lines of.... under Thomas players were encouraged to attack, attack at all costs - move on quickly to so Roo, Frase & Milney can't be double tagged....don't worry about the skills get ball in there fast and let it be man on man contest, back themselves.....onballers were to hang back around centre line for anyturner overs to mop up (mistakes/rebounds ).

Then Lyon comes on board and makes team more defensive, accountable, wait for h/backs to be moving upfield before moving ball into forward zone. Waiting (my interpretation of his comment) means chipping around backwards, and laterally and waiting for a player on a clear lead up forward.

Aussie said the precise skills for such a game plan hadn't been drilled into that team over the years to hold onto the ball to play precision, possession football. He said players have the skills, but it wasn't in their psyche to do this which was just as important.

He feels that RL has realised that his original game plan is no longer relevant nearly 18 months down the track and not suited to the personnel at the Saints and now thinks the team is lost between the two styles.

My interpretation of Aussie's comments are that the team is uncertain of what is required of them as RL says he wants them to be attacking, but to Aussie they don't appear to start a game in that frame of mind. They are stuck into forcing the game into a contest early in the match , and not trying to stamp their authority immediately which was mindset under Thomas.

My interpretation of Aussie's interpretation is that Lyon has attempted to change mid season but possibly he is not confident/certain(???) of his direction and players are playing accordingly.

Ooooooophs and Aussie agreed (with other comentators on the program) recruiting ageing/injured rucks like King and Gardiner was not a forward looking move.

[cowboy18]

thanks for that -I didn't hear it but the rare but memorable patches of positive vibrant and attacking play this year (sometimes not finished off well but there nevertheless) have stuck in my mind.

I have no idea why anyone things the rubbish we deal out is anything near what would be required to win games of football, especially with our list. The longer we wait the more likely those stupid turnovers are.

I also have no idea why they can't revert back to something more attacking - this current approach is simply not working.

[bobmurray]

Thanks Loris....good post,interesting comments from Aussie

[saintsRrising]

Thanks for those inisghts Loris.


I think it also helped that Aussie could hit a target and kick to advantage.

However post-streak the opposition coaches cottoned on to our imprecise kicking (apart from Aussie) and so started playing an extra man back....with the result that they had the numbers always and started winning easy ball and great rebound out of their defence..

= our game plan working against us

= end streak.

Ooooooophs and Aussie agreed (with other comentators on the program) recruiting ageing/injured rucks like King and Gardiner was not a forward looking move.

Not sure that Sugar/Knoble/Brooks/Rix is superior to Gardiner/King/McEvoy though??????

In fact I know it is not and I know that King and Gardi is superior to the old lot...and with McEvoy coming through it has a lot more long term future to it.

[bigcarl]

Aussie said something along the lines of under Thomas players were encouraged to attack, attack at all costs - move on quickly to so Roo, Frase & Milney can't be double tagged ... don't worry about the skills get ball in there fast and let it be man on man contest, back themselves.

it worked a hell of a lot better than the dross we are serving up now.

[Buckets]

Could his comments be construed as he doesn't believe that Lyon is up to the challenge of being an AFL head coach?
For a coach to change tactics mid year and expect his team to follow automatically would be fool hardy at best and incompetant at worse!

[saintsRrising]

Could his comments be construed as he doesn't believe that Lyon is up to the challenge of being an AFL head coach?
For a coach to change tactics mid year and expect his team to follow automatically would be fool hardy at best and incompetant at worse!

Well it could be...

or it could also be an acknowledgement that it was not working....so time to change tack.

[loris]

Remember folks this is my recollection and my INTERPRETATION of Aussie Jones' interpretation of what he thinks could be happening with the Saints at the moment...... Some of Aussie's words I can recall verbatim, but mainly this is just a general summation of his reflections.

[St Fidelius]

Remember folks this is my recollection and my INTERPRETATION of Aussie Jones' interpretation of what he thinks could be happening with the Saints at the moment...... Some of Aussie's words I can recall verbatim, but mainly this is just a general summation of his reflections.

Thanks Loris for your input, I don't post much here anymore...

I have given up on a coach that plays players that DON'T perform in the side that is what of better terms called our seconds....

How the fcuk did Fiora get a game is absolutely beyond me and more so..

HOW THE FCUK DOES THE GUTLESS WIMP GRAM CONTINUE TO GET A GAME??

Anyway Loris, sorry for the outburst, and it was nice to finally meet you a few weeks back...

[rodgerfox]

.....

However post-streak....

SrR, you make alot of references to this.

"Post-streak".

2005 was easily our best year in terms of where se stood in the comp, and if not for complete an utter destruction due to uinjuries during finals time, we'd have won the flag comfortably.

Your references to 'post-streak' suggest we were no good after R11 2004.

This is simply not the case.

[congorozides]

Thanks for the post. Those comments from Aussie sound pretty much what it feels like watching from the stands. A real lack of certainty and boldness amongst the players. I think its time to bring the fun back to the team. Just let them play Ross.

[rodgerfox]

Ok, let's say Aussie is on the money (which I think her certainly is).

Who in their right mind would sack a coach (and we won't even take into account the fact that we'd just won 14 games and were home and hosed in a final until we lost 4 players and still led deep into the last quarter) then go out and get a rookie.

A rookie, who I assume comes into an interview and says 'Ok, this is what I intend to do in terms of game plan, list management etc.'.

We (the club), say 'yep, great idea to completely backflip on what this group has been taught over the past 5 years, and which has some serious positives attached to it, you're hired! And you know what, recruit discards and rejects and make sure you play them ahead of the youngsters'.


Seriously, what's happening now in terms of game plan, and the astounding revelation that Lyon has changed his tact (??!!) after only 1.5 years must surely have some serious repurcussions for those involved in the decision. I mean, on what basis was he hired? Surely the fact that his vision and plan was the goods.

The Board is pretty much gone, but whoever seriously sat down and made the decision to sack a coach, then hired an untried coach based on what he told them he intended to do - needs to be kicked in the arse and told never to return.

Can you sue a Consulting group for such a shiit decision?

[sunsaint]

firstly as bad as it looked on TV it was worse at the ground.
You could see things unfold with a sad inevitability that the Lions were going to thump us.
It started with Roos miss in the first 1/4 it was the easiest of kicks, and how he shanked it is beyond me. For a player of his calibre and pay cheque, it was unforgivable.
The rest of Roo's game fell to pieces(along with everyone else). Watching him made me feel that he played a decoy role for Kosi. His leads were to outrageously bad positions and mostly ignored by the midfield. Injured or not it was a poor game. His shoulders are shot: as soon as he raises his arms above a 90degree angle he loses all power in the grab, and I would say his rotator cups are pinching nerves, leaving him with dead arms. I am also wondering if this is the reason why a lot of kicks to him are "short" placed at his feet. He may need an op or intensive physio to correct this.
Our forwards did not work well on the day, Milne was left to do a lot of defensive work, Kosi looked good when he could "float" across a pack, but Merrit had his measure in contests. Schneider was useless.

Our backline. Bloody hell, if they spent half the time encouraging each other they might be a more coherent unit. I could not believe the number of sprays between each other. (read Max & goddard)
S Fisher had a shocker, he could not match the speed or strength of Brown, or the speed of Bradshaw. It was disappointing as we expect much more from him. Max was not much better, one marking contest with Brown was a disgrace I watched as the ball came down the outer wing Max & Brown started in the G square, Max deliberately took the boundary side of Brown as they started moving forward, and had no hope of cutting the ball off when the pass came. It was only one instance but it was indicative of his mind set all day. Blake was used as the backup and was moved on to both Brown and Bradshaw and generally did pretty well, but one of Bradshaw's goals was a disgrace. Left hand on Blakes shoulder, he juggled the ball falling backwards all while Goddard watched with this moronic expression an arms length away. He might have some good skills, but he has spent way too much time playing a loose man role, and has lost any sense of "one on one". I was surprised by his speed tho, it takes him about ten metres to get going but at full tilt he covers some ground fairly rapidly. Gram looked like he wanted to be anywhere else but the gabba.

Midfield: thank god for Harvey.
It is a disgrace that he has to carry this side. His personal pride must be so great to perform at the level he does. But you have to admire the strength of his character for not pulling the pin week after week when his team mates dont give a stuff. Lenny played his usual tough game and Ball tried, but their influence on the game was minimal, but without them the result would have been worse.
Montagna had no influence. Which brings me to Nick DalSanto.
I am going to cop flack for this, but: golly gee NDS looks good running round, getting loose balls, trotting along side an opponent with the ball, zoning off, not exerting pressure. He has a lovely day running round the paddock each week. But god help me if he ever has another shot on goal like he did in the first quarter, no pressure, ignore front of goals square passes, runs himself to the behind post and puts it OoF. It was one of the most selfish things I have ever seen on a footy field.
CJ will continue to get games, much to the disgust to a few here. His speed and endeavour is sadly lacking in the majority of the Saints. He is the only player on our list that will even attempt to run down a player 20 metres away. You can hate him all you like, but I can see why he gets chosen.
Fiora will not play again, a disappointing way to end a potentially great career. Armitage should have come in, especially as it would have been his first "QLD" game.
For all those that keep crying for new blood in the team, Geary had his chance and dropped the easiest of marks under no pressure. If it was Rix he would be lynched by regulars here.
M Gardiner is no way near the fitness level required of an AFL player. The guy can hardly trot. At this point in the season I cant see why he is not better than he is.

I think in the minds of a lot of players they have written off '08 already.
Hate to say it but I think there might be a few more thumpings before the season is out.
The worst impression I left the game with was how lumbering our players are. Oh and did I mention mentally soft?
Just my observations on the day...

[Bernard Shakey]

That's exactly what it looked like on TV sunsaint.

We are going backwards. 10th or lower this year, after being premiership favourites at the start.

[crowjelly]

Depressing as this analysis is, by Sunsaint - hopefully the club has not banned all the players/coaches from reading the fan forums such as these.

Let us hope as members the club can see the problems and get onto fixing them quickly.

[Badlands]

thanks for those views sunsaint, I find myself agreeing with 100% of what you said so not sure that you should cop much flak. Our list has no depth. I don't generally like naming individuals but there are a group of players who seem to rotate through casey and the top flight fairly regularly, and unfortunately I look at the teams right down the bottom like Melbourne and Essendon and really wonder if even these teams could find room for some of these players in their run-on squads.

The same players are performing week after week and it just doesn't seem fair. Lenny Hayes, Luke Ball (now that he's nearing something close to fitness) and god love him Robert Harvey are bleeding for this team week after week. I don't know how some of the rest of the list can look Harves in the eye in the dressing room.

But I do believe it is important to distinguish between effort and ability - my view is that there are players out there who are trying their hardest, they simply can't cut it at AFL. They're the ones who'll be rotated out next week for another couple of inclusions who also can't cut it at the top level - it's the same vicious cycle week after week.

[JeffDunne]

While I agree with most of that sunsaint, I think you're being a little unfair on both Nicks.

Roo shouldn't have played. It was desperation to play him. His knee is obviously causing him problems with kicking with any power (not sure about the shoulder disgnosis but it wouldn't surprise me).

The criticisms of his leads I think is unfair. For a start we structure up allowing him to be double-teamed. He also makes plenty of leads that IMO are perfectly timed if the midfielder raises his eyes rather than trying to draw the opposition.

As for the goal NDS tried. It was a stupid decision but I'm sure he's been instructed to take more shots. His natural instinct is to give the ball off and he's copped a lot of criticism for it in the past.

[felixleo]

Well stated sunsaint but give geary a break, i agree if it was blake or rix the usual lynch mob would be out but who hasn't spent one before they got it,hopefully he'll learn.

[Teflon]

sunsaint - great post.

[sunsaint]

Sorry folks .. not for the comments .. but meant to post this as a new subject...dopey dopey me

[Saintschampions08]

All in all, it has had no bearing on many of the games this year.

It's been the lacklustre efforts, not the lacklustre game plan (although dissapointing it may be)

[St.Kenny]

Aussie is right on the money here. Basic lack of positive attacking playing has railroaded Gehrigs career and made an otherwise exciting and cohesive forward line irrelevent in the grander scheme of things. Seems to be all about protecting our asses and forgetting about going for goals quickly and catching the opposition backlines off guard.

[rodgerfox]

As for the goal NDS tried. It was a stupid decision but I'm sure he's been instructed to take more shots. His natural instinct is to give the ball off and he's copped a lot of criticism for it in the past.

Very good point.

I don't think many players know what their natural instince actually is anymore.

Do they have a ping? Do they centre it? Do they take on their opponent? Do they take the first option? Do they attack the contest? Do they wait and corale their opponent?

Not one player looks like a confident, well drilled professional footballer at the moment.

They look completely and utterly lost and confused.


That's the whole problem.

[bigcarl]

As for the goal NDS tried. It was a stupid decision but I'm sure he's been instructed to take more shots. His natural instinct is to give the ball off and he's copped a lot of criticism for it in the past.

i said exactly that when i saw it.

i applaud him having a shot despite the result. we need more guys to back themselves.

guys should be encouraged to take risks without being fearful of the consequences if it doesn't come off

and what point would it serve to drag him over the coals anyway. he knew he'd ballsed it up and wasn't happy about it.

i'm just glad he kept having shots at goal later in the game rather than putting the cue in the rack.