If Roger can lose the plot - so can I

[The Peanut]

With another year blown away without adequate responses forthcoming from the club I speculate.

These are some of my outrageous statements:
• Nick Riewoldt carries the responsibility of Captainship when he appears to be out of form in on-field leadership
• Our Captain has lost confidence in his kicking and it appears that the harder he tries, the worse he gets
• It appears that Ross Lyon and staff have not corrected the problems in the forward line including match strategies, delivery, selection and possibly training inadequacies
• It is well known, whether true or not, that the majority of team voted for Lenny Hayes to be Captain
• The club selected Nick Riewoldt for Captaincy for three reasons:
1. To keep the Gold Coast at bay
2. Because he is worth a lot of money for the club in branding
3. He presents himself on and off the field in an excellent manner
• Justin Koschitzke is annoyed that he doesn’t have a chance of being Captain and doesn’t feel valued by the club
• Ross Lyon is a career coach with a lot of experience but only at an assistant level
• Ross Lyon believed that simply with a little tweaking and a good defensive plan St Kilda would be successful
• Some of the coaching assistants are not up to the standard of a powerhouse AFL club
• Ross Lyon stole the backbone of Sydney’s game-plan and was training our players in it’s implementation while Sydney were moving forward in further development
• We have two extremely good tall forwards and cannot inspire confidence in their performance or develop a structure that supports their strengths
• With all the noise of player management and increased fitness staff, the management of Fraser Gehrig’s hands was overlooked
• The players appear to not be inspired by quarter and half-time pep talks

These are some of my outrageous questions:
• Do the players really want to move down to Frankston for training or do they like Moorabbin – Was their choice of a training venue considered?
• Was the move down to Frankston involve some self-interest for Archie Fraser?
• What does Nathan Burke and Andrew Thompson really think about our present problems?
• Does the club have adequate and ‘worlds best practice’ psychological assistance available to players who can’t kick goals in a premiership game?
• Why doesn’t the club provide comprehensive injury list reports? – why consistently leave players names off the list?
• Was Ross Lyon passionate about giving us a Premiership when it is speculated that he didn’t even apply for the job?
• Did Ross Lyon choose his assistants as mates or because they were the best available?

There is plenty more where those come from – at least I got them off my chest - what should I do? hide them or bore fellow supporters sh!tless with them?

[Otiman]

All good points and questions.

Sadly we will never know, at least not until it is too late.

[Moccha]

They're the sort of 3 questions that I like. C'mon St.Brat show some of the Peanuts initative

[loris]

Keep boring us Bruce....because they are the sorts of questions that need asking and more importantly ANSWERING.

[Moccha]

What happened to the WA Loris. Are u ashamed?

[The Fireman]

it just goes to show much we are in trouble by the amount of questions asked..but surely the solutions are few and effective.
I think you get the drift.

[loris]

What happened to the WA Loris. Are u ashamed?

Awwh shucks "Moccha" you can take the """"" girl """"""" out of Victoria but you can't take the Victoria out of the """" girl"""".

Nah nothing so sinister.... I was away from the site for a couple of months in that time I changed from dial up to broadband and my thingy changed...went to log into this site and wouldn't accept me as loriswa so loris I became..does this mean I have multiple personalities???????

Careful if I change to Sybil

[saintsRrising]

No Peanut you are not boring anyone.

A Forum needs discussion points....to get some opinions and discussion going.

• Did Ross Lyon choose his assistants as mates or because they were the best available?

this is ceratainly an interesting one...as it was known that SOS and Lyon were close.
Some at the time saw it asa great thing to get SOS, even though he only had had brief experience at being an assistant.

Barker had none.

Which only leaves Rock as having had much experience. I don't know if Rocj wasa mate or not.
SOS clearly was/is.....Barker and Lyon were both Fitzroy boys.


The only other assistant coach (ignoring the development coaches) is the recently aquired ruck coach of Madden.

[iwantmeseats]

I~wasnt aware the majority of the players wanted Lenny as captain! WTF? This is bulls***. I can SEE the reason in appointing Reiwoldt, but come on, seriously. Lyon solely responsible for that?

[Cairnsman]

The thing that s***s me about this situation is that there are so many questions, and the thing about that from a clubs point of view is that the players can either say to themselves, right! we've got ourselves into a bit of hole so what should we do, do we role our sleves up and have a red hot go and show some ticker or do we raise the white flag.

OUR PLAYERS WAVE THE WHITE FLAG ALMOST EVERY FARKING TIME!

Peanut your post is a good one and the undertone that belies your list of questions is that the club is full of overpaid sooks who have let their egos get bigger than the club.

This is my solution: Don't sack the coach, he is management, in what other organisation does the boss get sacked if the employees are not performing...not too many. Sack a player mid season. Sack a decent player that is a list clogger and one who's attitude is not acceptable.

We sacked Capuano and overnight the players responed. The clubs performance went through the roof after he was shown the door. My experience is that performance increases overnight when an underperforming employee is sacked in a team that has a bad attitutude. It is generally only one or two bad seeds in a team that create cancer.

The question is, who do you sack?

[The Peanut]

I~wasnt aware the majority of the players wanted Lenny as captain! WTF? This is bulls***. I can SEE the reason in appointing Reiwoldt, but come on, seriously. Lyon solely responsible for that?

Well, I don't believe that it was solely RL who pushed for NW's appointment as Captain and I wasn't against it at the time, although I thought Lenny was a better on-field leader.

I'm not pushing for the sacking of RL but I would like him to have very, verry serious look at himself and a re-think of what he is doing and what a responsibility he has by accepting the most important role in our club.

The players apparently can't dig themselves out of the hole so it's about time the club sat down (like Geelong did a couple of years ago and the Doggies did last year) and develop a structure/plan that takes us in a different direction to where we are heading now.

I don't solely blame the players because the coach is ultimately responsible for the players attitude, self-belief, hard work and match readiness at this level. The board have apparently given him everything he asked for, so it's about time RL gives us what we ask for.

The board is ultimately responsible for the coach.

We as supporters are ultimately responsible for the board, but I am not silly enough to be pushing for a board spill, even if it appeared obvious to me at the AGM they are overly cocky and comfortable with the amount of support they got to get voted in.

There were promises made to get our votes and I for one want to see more than kissing babies at the pre-match function.

• I am screaming for the board to go the hard yards at the moment to ensure things are turned around.

• I am screaming for Ross Lyon to search for some assistance as he appears to be lost in the wilderness.

• I am screaming for the players to have an independant meeting and discuss the current situation and take their findings to the club.

This is not good enough for me I am affraid - and am not happy sitting on my hands.

[st.byron]

a few comments on some of your 'outrageous' statements Peanut.

Re the forward line : agree that our forward set-up is currently crap and that not much seems to be happening to change it. Amazes me that elite athletes can't improve even a little such fundamental skill issues as set-shot kicking. Than again general kicking skills appear to have gone backwards all round.

Re Kosi feeeling undervalued : If he does he's a bloody prima donna. He's singularly the most disappointing player on our list. People bang on about how X hasn't really delivered for a #3 draft pick. Koschitzke has delivered less as a #2 pick. And he's not the very good tall forward that you suggest. He's not a great player, not even better than GOP. It amazes me that people continue to have their heads in the sand re Kosi. He's average, just.

Re Lyon and his match day demeanour : He's about as inspiring as watching paint dry isn't he? He can talk all he likes about structures and accountability, but the proof is in the pudding and he is failing to deliver. There appears to be zero passion in the players. They don't seem prepared to bleed for the club and give it everything. Lyon is ultimately accountable for it.

[Eastern]

Very good (not boring) questions Peanut. There is ONE area of concern;

If you can remember that far back (when Roger lost the plot) then you have well & truly lost it too !!

[borderbarry]

Some of the coaching assistants are not up to the standard of a powerhouse AFL club Unquote.

Why were no ex-Saints considered for assistant coached? We let Jason Cripps go, why? Because he was not a mate of Lyons? SZurely Stewie Loewe had as many credentials as a forward coach as Barker!
I believe we should make a concerted effort to get Terry Daniher back as forward coach. Come on Saints, do something!

[saintbrat]

They're the sort of 3 questions that I like. C'mon St.Brat show some of the Peanuts initative

you were quite welcome to post any or all of those quetions mocha- 3 was a random number,

[Spinner]

What a post!!!!!

Agree 100%....All of the above are issues....

[Saint Bev]

In the last two years the club has had massive clean outs. New coach and coaching panel. New fitness assistants etc. New President and board. To date we have not achieved what we would like. Does that mean we sack the lot and start once again?

Personally I think we would be shooting ourselves in the foot. I have no idea what the answer is, for me, I will just do what I have always done with St Kilda. Follow them, love and support them.

But I think if people are serious about these questions, maybe put them in a letter to Footy Manager. See what he has so say. Would probably be worth while to ask if it was ok to put answers on this site.

[skeptic]

Just a few things that caught my eye

• It is well known, whether true or not, that the majority of team voted for Lenny Hayes to be Captain

Is it??? I've never heard of this b4... may i ask as to what u base this on... source?

• The club selected Nick Riewoldt for Captaincy for three reasons:
1. To keep the Gold Coast at bay
2. Because he is worth a lot of money for the club in branding
3. He presents himself on and off the field in an excellent manner

Is this fact or opinion?

• Justin Koschitzke is annoyed that he doesn’t have a chance of being Captain and doesn’t feel valued by the club

Now this I'd like a source on or at the very least something that resembles evidence

• Some of the coaching assistants are not up to the standard of a powerhouse AFL club

God tell me about it. Which ones did u have in mind? John Barker is the obvious one... how do you rate Rock and SOS?

• We have two extremely good tall forwards and cannot inspire confidence in their performance or develop a structure that supports their strengths

Makes me want to cry

Otherwise a good post

[The Peanut]

Just a few things that caught my eye

• It is well known, whether true or not, that the majority of team voted for Lenny Hayes to be Captain

Is it??? I've never heard of this b4... may i ask as to what u base this on... source?

It is fairly common knowledge - but as I say not sure about the truth of the matter

• The club selected Nick Riewoldt for Captaincy for three reasons:
1. To keep the Gold Coast at bay
2. Because he is worth a lot of money for the club in branding
3. He presents himself on and off the field in an excellent manner

Is this fact or opinion?

It is opinion but I know his branding value at the club is well known - If my speculation is wrong then it must be his on-field leadership qualities that pushed him over the line - because I think that's the only one left

• Justin Koschitzke is annoyed that he doesn’t have a chance of being Captain and doesn’t feel valued by the club

Now this I'd like a source on or at the very least something that resembles evidence

Source: Grant Thomas alluded to this on SEN a couple of weeks ago

• Some of the coaching assistants are not up to the standard of a powerhouse AFL club

God tell me about it. Which ones did u have in mind? John Barker is the obvious one... how do you rate Rock and SOS?

I would like to highly rate them all - but the performances all over the ground on match-day leave me asking this question but the forward structure and delivery is pathetic

• We have two extremely good tall forwards and cannot inspire confidence in their performance or develop a structure that supports their strengths

Makes me want to cry

Me too

Otherwise a good post

I was hoping that I qualified the post as just outrageous speculation - just what's going on in the old Peanut's head, that's all

In the last two years the club has had massive clean outs. New coach and coaching panel. New fitness assistants etc. New President and board. To date we have not achieved what we would like. Does that mean we sack the lot and start once again?

Personally I think we would be shooting ourselves in the foot. I have no idea what the answer is, for me, I will just do what I have always done with St Kilda. Follow them, love and support them.

But I think if people are serious about these questions, maybe put them in a letter to Footy Manager. See what he has so say. Would probably be worth while to ask if it was ok to put answers on this site.

Whats your time frame to expect some light at the end of the tunnel? I expected at least a small improvement by now ... or at least something to give us some hope ... it's 18 months down the track.

[iwantmeseats]

Exactly peanut!! You are making alot of sense. And to think some here will shoot you down for suggesting its folly to give RL his third year. Then again, its all opinions and robust discussion which I guess is a good thing. And the whole point of this forum in the first place. But for the record, Im with you.

[saintspremiers]

Sack a player mid season. Sack a decent player that is a list clogger and one who's attitude is not acceptable.

The question is, who do you sack?

Some would say Fiora, but as he is not a senior player anymore there would be no point.

For me, it would have to be Schneider.

I'm pretty close to 100% convinced his heart, mind and soul is NOT at St Kilda.

I don't know where it is, and he probably doesn't know either. But I can't see him changing his attitude anytime soon.

He is the cancer IMO.

[st.byron]

For me, it would have to be Schneider.

I'm pretty close to 100% convinced his heart, mind and soul is NOT at St Kilda.

I don't know where it is, and he probably doesn't know either. But I can't see him changing his attitude anytime soon.

He is the cancer IMO.

Big call SP to blame it all on Schneider and call him a cancer. Buck stops with Lyon IMO, not any individual players.

[Spinner]

Sack a player mid season. Sack a decent player that is a list clogger and one who's attitude is not acceptable.

The question is, who do you sack?

Some would say Fiora, but as he is not a senior player anymore there would be no point.

For me, it would have to be Schneider.

I'm pretty close to 100% convinced his heart, mind and soul is NOT at St Kilda.

I don't know where it is, and he probably doesn't know either. But I can't see him changing his attitude anytime soon.

He is the cancer IMO.

Bag Schnieder all you want but don't question his heart and soul based on 6 or so matches for our club.....

This is probably one of the most baseless posts I have ever read on here.

I believe he is a front runner, and a poor midfielder based on his 100 AFL games.....But to question his soul and call him a cancer after 6 St Kilda games is pathetic.

Grow up.

[saintspremiers]

Sack a player mid season. Sack a decent player that is a list clogger and one who's attitude is not acceptable.

The question is, who do you sack?

Some would say Fiora, but as he is not a senior player anymore there would be no point.

For me, it would have to be Schneider.

I'm pretty close to 100% convinced his heart, mind and soul is NOT at St Kilda.

I don't know where it is, and he probably doesn't know either. But I can't see him changing his attitude anytime soon.

He is the cancer IMO.

Bag Schnieder all you want but don't question his heart and soul based on 6 or so matches for our club.....

This is probably one of the most baseless posts I have ever read on here.

I believe he is a front runner, and a poor midfielder based on his 100 AFL games.....But to question his soul and call him a cancer after 6 St Kilda games is pathetic.

Grow up.

You stick to your opinion and I'll stick to mine.

Grow up yourself tool.

[Animal Enclosure]

Yeah Schneider clearly undermined our crap season in 2007 & is going even further this year!

What a load of rubbish.

Our problems can be summed up as follows;

*We are slow
*We've recruited poorly
*Early draft picks have not developed as we would have expected.
*No senior player has improved under the current coach
*The coach can't motivate the players
*The coach's tactics are ordinary & out of date

Sacking a player would do nothing to solve any of the above. Trading aggressively at the end of season will begin to solve some issues. Winning 50% of the remaining games will not solve anything. Playing the kids & putting any senior player into rehab will.

Call it tanking or call it planning for the Gold Coast/West Sydney era.