Are the Cats really that much better?????

[saintsRrising]

Well in one way no.

TALENT WISE

If you look though their team from a talent perspective, as Yipper recently posted what really stands out they have an exceptional midfield in quality and in depth. They have an edge in this department.

Add to this some very good HF's in Johnson, Chapman and the cut above Ablett.

Down back they are solid with an exceptional offensive FB in Scarlett.

Their rucks are good, but not brilliant.

Their tall forwards are capable, but way below many other teams combinations.

Talent wise I think their is a good case that they are not that much better than a number of other teams. But yet for most of two seasons they have clearly been the best team in the competition and by a fair margin.


However what sets them apart and gives them the edge is that the vast majority of their players deliver at or near their potential most weeks.//most games.


There are very few Cat's players where you say he would be a good player if...or but..

By and large if you look at individual Cat's players they are delivering the maximum that you would expect of the individual player.

Steve Johnson is probably the main exception with his games bouncing from brilliant to ordinry. But even he is deliverying at a greater and more consitent output than he used to.

Compared to the Saints and other teams this gives the Cats a large advantage. Way too many Saints have the problem of not consistently enough delivering at, or near their best.

This is one of the reasons why the Cat's so suddenly became a better team.. they committed to giving more...and then have actually managed to do so.

Now yes other factors such as rebuilding their conditioning department to minimise injurires, and an effective gameplan all playa role too.


What makes a good footballer, or athelete, or golfer etc etc is not talent alone...and many players do not become good sportsmen because they cannot make the most of their talent.

Right here and now what really sets the Cats apart is that they are making the most of their individual talent.


Through on top of this the confidence that results, and the willingness to commit to teamplay religously and you get a team that is humming a long...anda team that is dominating the competition.

The Hawks likewise have gone past the Saints in recent times for similar reasons, but do not have as many players playing near their potential as the Cats do. But they do have a very committed hardworking group.

THE SAINTS

Can they beat the Cats?

Well yes, BUT only if MORE of our players can in the finals deliver at or near their best.

We have a number of if but players:

* Dal
* Gram++
* Kosi
* Milne (though post his dropping he has been very good and so posibly should not be on this list)
* Gwilt
* Raph
* Joey
* X
*Schneider
* Charlie (not looking for him to star...just to play as well as he can which is useful)

These are the players who over the coming weeks we need to lift and give more...to play the way we know that they can. If they do...then watch out!!!

Banger, Max, Lenny, King, Sam, BJ (who has now joined this group) will all deliver good football playing at or near their potential.

Birrs, Jones, Eddy and Co will be less than good players...but can be relied upon to play near their expected potential and to do their bit.



* Fiora would be a classic for this list, but may not see a final.



PS ++ Gram on song as a lightning mid with his long booming goals could be a real game breaker for us....or if but he won't get free, and when he does he will bomb it straight to Harley!

[Saints Premiers 2008]

yes, confidence

[StSteven]

Yes and all this equals 8 games better and 50 percentage points in 2008!

No matter which way you analyse it, it will be a huge task and a big step up in our performance would be necessary. (Or a major crash in theirs)

[perfectionist]

True. But we have two contested mark forwards and they have none. That is why, unsurprisingly, the game will be won in the midfield. If we get on top - we win (make that - should win). Obviously I would be more confident if Luke Ball was playing but he ain't.

Strangely, I feel that the MCG will suit us against them. They don't like wide grounds.

[markp]

Heard a great example on the radio last night of a team with Geelong-like dominance falling at the last hurdle- the New England Patriots being beaten by the New York Giants in the Superbowl... it's more than just possible.

[saintsRrising]

IF..and that is a big If...we play at our best we can be competitve.


IF Kosi can lift....then the Geelong defence will struggle aginst the twin towers. Both need to kick reasonably at goal too.

King is going to be very importnat againts his old team....

but back to my op..we need ALL of our players to lift and play at their best.

The Cats already are...can we?

[wasoncestkil58]

Just to single out one particular Geelong player one the saints need to curb is Steve Johnson. Although they are not by any means a one man team they do rely on Johnson to manage their forward line. A long time Cats supporter friend of mine spent most of the last game watching Johnson and was surprised by how much he was telling all the other forwards where to go. Not sure who will get the job on Johnson he will need to be on top of his game.
By no means are the cats unbeatable. The Saints just need a 100 per cent effort from the whole 22 in the squad and the coaching staff just as important.

[robbie muir]

For us to beat Geelong i believe we need a minimum of 12 goals to be kicked by the following four players

Riewoldt
Kozi
Schneider
Milne

If the rest of the team can come up with 4 to 6 goals then i think with a score of 16 plus goals that should be enough to get us over the line because i think our defence will limit Geelong to less than that.

[WayneJudson42]

I'll get howled down for this, but...

In terms of development, consistancy, team ethics.. Geelong is way ahead of us IMO.

In terms of a timeline, we are where they were last August.

For the first time this year, I'm expecting us to lose, and if we do, that we don't get pimped in the process.

Deep down, I hope we win, tho.

[StSteven]

Like you I am not optimistic at all. We are full of hope, But it is hope. If we play at 100% as everybody believes we must, this will not be enough. While people are quoting Green Bay Packers, that is the exception that everyone talks about because it is so rare. For us to win an extraordinary event has to occurr.

We can hope but i will keep my money in my pocket.

I think there will be "tears before bedtime".

[evertonfc]

Not that I am not thinking of winning, but I want us to plant one almighty seed of doubt on Sunday afternoon that, over the course of four weeks, can grow by the time we reach the GF.

Either way, we need to squeeze every ounce from the playing group on Sunday.

Not only to show Geelong and football world that we can win...but that we can show ourselves too.

And let's not forget. We owe #35. Big time.

Nobody can let him down. Nobody.

[n1ck]

Well said, Ev.

[saintsRrising]

Well I am thinking about winning ....and how we might do just that....


No point going in thinking abouttrying to beat them in 3 weeks time...

Need to concentrate on Sunday.

[matrix]

hawks got to within a few goals of the cats, and it was turnovers by experienced players that cost them that game in the last mins.

i believe we beat the hawks...
we have to be at our best, no doubt about that.
impossible task?....NO

and if we dont its not the end of the world now is it.
we have a get out clause

[Gabba]

hit their midfielders hard at the first bounce... nothing within suspension... unnerve them a bit

[Dan Warna]

I'll get howled down for this, but...

In terms of development, consistancy, team ethics.. Geelong is way ahead of us IMO.

In terms of a timeline, we are where they were last August.

For the first time this year, I'm expecting us to lose, and if we do, that we don't get pimped in the process.

Deep down, I hope we win, tho.

yep look at the majority of their team, its not that different tot he team we beat in 06, and look at our team, the core of them are the same that beat them in 06.

the difference is they are winning and playing consistent football and we are playing brilliant quarters here and there.

heck when we played collingwood early in the season we were thrashed for 100 minutes and nearly snatched the game with 20 minutes of footy.

Geelong have every right to be cocky, but we have the talent to beat them, the questions are do we have the committment of geelong and do we have the discipline of geelong and do we have the confidence of geelong.

[WayneJudson42]

I'll get howled down for this, but...

In terms of development, consistancy, team ethics.. Geelong is way ahead of us IMO.

In terms of a timeline, we are where they were last August.

For the first time this year, I'm expecting us to lose, and if we do, that we don't get pimped in the process.

Deep down, I hope we win, tho.

yep look at the majority of their team, its not that different tot he team we beat in 06, and look at our team, the core of them are the same that beat them in 06.

the difference is they are winning and playing consistent football and we are playing brilliant quarters here and there.

heck when we played collingwood early in the season we were thrashed for 100 minutes and nearly snatched the game with 20 minutes of footy.

Geelong have every right to be cocky, but we have the talent to beat them, the questions are do we have the committment of geelong and do we have the discipline of geelong and do we have the confidence of geelong.

My heart says we do... but my head says we don't.

Given recent form, I reckon we're top 3 if not top 2. But Cats are just way way ahead... and bloddy hungry for back to back.

They have a certain invicibilty about them.

Still, who knows? If each player can give 110%...

[saintsRrising]

Still, who knows? If each player can give 110%...

We don't need 110%..just 100% or close to it which is what the Geelong players are doing.

Too often the Saints individually are well below the 100%....which is the point of my OP.

[desertsaint]

Like you I am not optimistic at all. We are full of hope, But it is hope. If we play at 100% as everybody believes we must, this will not be enough. While people are quoting Green Bay Packers, that is the exception that everyone talks about because it is so rare. For us to win an extraordinary event has to occurr.

We can hope but i will keep my money in my pocket.

I think there will be "tears before bedtime".

If we play at 100% we will win.
It won't be an 'extraordinary event' - an extraordinary event is needing a 15 goal win coupled with two bottom four teams giving a football lesson to two top 4 favourites!

To win we just need the desire and the belief that our best will be good enough - and then play our best!

[St DAC]

Let's inject a dose of reality here ...

The Cats are the best team I've ever seem. I'm 47, and have followed footy since I was 4. ('66 was a great year!) I've never seen a better team.

By that, I don't mean the best 22 players wearing the same jumper. I mean they play the best team oriented footy I've ever seen, consistently. Better that Carlton 1995, better than Essendon 2000, better than Brisbane 2001-3. Just fantasic team play.

All except the Collingwood game, where the 'Pies hassled them completely off their game, and declared them mortal. That's what we have to do; tackle, chase, harrass, give them no time or space to use the ball as well as they usually do. If we can do that for 4 quarters, were are a genuine chance. If not, forget it; we'll get beaten pretty comfortably.

[Teflon]

spot on DAC and the key is 4 QUARTERS.

We stopp for a 10 min breather and they can score quick and heavily...we lost last time to a 10 min burst and they simply contained things from then on.

Its 4 qtr effort time and some cameos from Kosi, Milne, Roo, Lenny, Montagna, Gram, Goddard, King wouldnt go astray.

BTW - NDS KNOWS his oppponent at some point will be C Ling. Accept that and hope he gets some "break tag" support from others (although Ling may sit on Lenny...).....

Gram went head to head with Judd last time and IMO broke even....do you do that against Ablett and hope Gram hurts them at least as much our way?????

so dissapointed no L Ball.....in the clinches against this mob he wouldve been handy......

Birss for Bartel?

[desertsaint]

4/4 = 100%

[St. Luke]

Let's inject a dose of reality here ...

The Cats are the best team I've ever seem. I'm 47, and have followed footy since I was 4. ('66 was a great year!) I've never seen a better team.

By that, I don't mean the best 22 players wearing the same jumper. I mean they play the best team oriented footy I've ever seen, consistently. Better that Carlton 1995, better than Essendon 2000, better than Brisbane 2001-3. Just fantasic team play.

All except the Collingwood game, where the 'Pies hassled them completely off their game, and declared them mortal. That's what we have to do; tackle, chase, harrass, give them no time or space to use the ball as well as they usually do. If we can do that for 4 quarters, were are a genuine chance. If not, forget it; we'll get beaten pretty comfortably.

Sums it up pretty well I'd say.

Im still confident though

[matrix]

Well I am thinking about winning ....and how we might do just that....


No point going in thinking abouttrying to beat them in 3 weeks time...

Need to concentrate on Sunday.

exactly
thats what the double chance is for.
go in thinking and playing like u want to win, i would assume every player is doing this anyway.
but EVERYONE should be thinking like this.

[Furphy]

Let's inject a dose of reality here ...

The Cats are the best team I've ever seem. I'm 47, and have followed footy since I was 4. ('66 was a great year!) I've never seen a better team.

By that, I don't mean the best 22 players wearing the same jumper. I mean they play the best team oriented footy I've ever seen, consistently. Better that Carlton 1995, better than Essendon 2000, better than Brisbane 2001-3. Just fantasic team play.

All except the Collingwood game, where the 'Pies hassled them completely off their game, and declared them mortal. That's what we have to do; tackle, chase, harrass, give them no time or space to use the ball as well as they usually do. If we can do that for 4 quarters, were are a genuine chance. If not, forget it; we'll get beaten pretty comfortably.

Remember the Brisbane team 2001-2003?