BREAKING NEWS...and not good :-( X - ACL injury)
Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators
I hesitate to write this, because I don't want it to turn into an X V Raph thing, but I just wanted to add my thoughts that I don't neccasarily think this is the end of X's career. When he is fit and running with a few games under his belt, I actually think he is a better player than Raph. He is quick and I think his decision making is better. I know many wont agree with me and thats fine. As I said, I'm not writing my opinion to encourage debate about the brothers, just to explain why I hope Xavier will get his chance to come back.
Huge loss
he would have impacted the side IMMEDIATELY on return....
he was CLEARLY above VFL standard, and back in the seniors fully fit would be another player at the ability of a Gram/Ray/Schnieder.
Not sure why Eddy was picked above him, after coming back from injury....
he has played 100+ games
has had dominant AFL games
Played 4 VFL games whilst Eddy was injured, including 1 with Eddy which he was BOG and Eddy was serviceable.....
Eddy was (as he will be) solid but not great, and will never be a 'great' AFL player........X has been a very damaging player when fit...
X is clearly a better player than Gwilt, Mini, Eddy and is also better than Geary and Jones (however they have done enough to keep him out) the first three have not....
BTW - Armitage is in the same boat......he is 20% better player than the ones mentioned, but is in the doghouse.....Eddy walked straight past him.
His career (as a saint) is now over (at 26 and hardly a game 2 years when recovered) he will be confined to the scrapheap.....
bad luck - he deserved better....
not sure there is consistency (I coyuldn't remember Ross's words).....he choses the players he prefers....Eddy is one of those...
I could list Ross's preferred team......it is obvious who is not in it.
X was certainly one of those........Schnieder for instance is one
he would have impacted the side IMMEDIATELY on return....
he was CLEARLY above VFL standard, and back in the seniors fully fit would be another player at the ability of a Gram/Ray/Schnieder.
Not sure why Eddy was picked above him, after coming back from injury....
he has played 100+ games
has had dominant AFL games
Played 4 VFL games whilst Eddy was injured, including 1 with Eddy which he was BOG and Eddy was serviceable.....
Eddy was (as he will be) solid but not great, and will never be a 'great' AFL player........X has been a very damaging player when fit...
X is clearly a better player than Gwilt, Mini, Eddy and is also better than Geary and Jones (however they have done enough to keep him out) the first three have not....
BTW - Armitage is in the same boat......he is 20% better player than the ones mentioned, but is in the doghouse.....Eddy walked straight past him.
His career (as a saint) is now over (at 26 and hardly a game 2 years when recovered) he will be confined to the scrapheap.....
bad luck - he deserved better....
not sure there is consistency (I coyuldn't remember Ross's words).....he choses the players he prefers....Eddy is one of those...
I could list Ross's preferred team......it is obvious who is not in it.
X was certainly one of those........Schnieder for instance is one
Who on here compared X to Ben Cousins.......FFS
Fact is X was on his last chance to impress....one year contract....
This year too many had gone past him (in Ross's eyes).....hence his non-selection.....and by next year he will be out of the picture.....
I am shattered for him.....it was ridiculous watching a fit X.Clarke running around in the twos (for 6 weeks) whilst Eddy was picked straight after his knee.....the is no chance in hell that Eddy is as good a player......
Why does one player have to prove himself........I thought there was 'integrity' in selection......so therefore the 'best' performing player gets promoted when a spot opens up......and there is NO agendas.....
Bad luck to him......great bloke, good player who will (like many others) benefit from a change.
Fact is X was on his last chance to impress....one year contract....
This year too many had gone past him (in Ross's eyes).....hence his non-selection.....and by next year he will be out of the picture.....
I am shattered for him.....it was ridiculous watching a fit X.Clarke running around in the twos (for 6 weeks) whilst Eddy was picked straight after his knee.....the is no chance in hell that Eddy is as good a player......
Why does one player have to prove himself........I thought there was 'integrity' in selection......so therefore the 'best' performing player gets promoted when a spot opens up......and there is NO agendas.....
Bad luck to him......great bloke, good player who will (like many others) benefit from a change.
hey marto where does goose sit then. Would his career be over if he did a knee next week for sandy?
The depth of the next few drafts means that it will go one of two ways. they will rehab him to the en of the season and say thanks and good luck or keep him as a depth player.
If he was 2 years younger it might have been the best thing for him to allow him to improve his body. But a 1 year contract does not bode well. especially with the under age draftees starting to come through (LJ and jack)
The depth of the next few drafts means that it will go one of two ways. they will rehab him to the en of the season and say thanks and good luck or keep him as a depth player.
If he was 2 years younger it might have been the best thing for him to allow him to improve his body. But a 1 year contract does not bode well. especially with the under age draftees starting to come through (LJ and jack)
FQF
loyal in the good times and bad
In richo I trust
2013 trade/draft best ever?
Billings - future brownlow medallist Longer - future best ruck
Dunstan - future captain Eli - future cult hero
Acres - future norm smith
loyal in the good times and bad
In richo I trust
2013 trade/draft best ever?
Billings - future brownlow medallist Longer - future best ruck
Dunstan - future captain Eli - future cult hero
Acres - future norm smith
-
bigcarl
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 18456
- Joined: Thu 11 Mar 2004 1:36am
- Has thanked: 1787 times
- Been thanked: 808 times
he'd have to wonder if it is worth doing the rehab seeing as though he couldn't break into the side even with a string of excellent games for sandringham.BigMart wrote:His career (as a saint) is now over (at 26 and hardly a game 2 years when recovered) he will be confined to the scrapheap
would eddy be in front of raph, too, in ross's eyes?BigMart wrote:t was ridiculous watching a fit X.Clarke running around in the twos (for 6 weeks) whilst Eddy was picked straight after his knee.....the is no chance in hell that Eddy is as good a player.
to me one is among the most talented at the club and the other is a good, honest trier.
one of them has been BOG for us in a final and the other is a fringe-dwelling GOP.
Last edited by bigcarl on Sun 03 May 2009 1:31pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
SuperSaint
- Club Player
- Posts: 907
- Joined: Fri 12 Nov 2004 10:06am
-
skeptic
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 16565
- Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 7:10pm
- Has thanked: 3454 times
- Been thanked: 2717 times
kaos theory wrote: Thats BS.
"career is officially in jeopardy" - WTF do you know? Is he the only player to do his knee? Maybe we should have him put down.
All we know is that his has done his knee, he will get it scanned, and a decision to will be made for the best recovery path.
The rest will be up to him to focus on recovery and get back to playing good footy.
What on earth is wrong with you!!!???
He's an 8-9 year fringe player who has been injury prone to the point where a conscious effort has been made to improve his overall fitness in a desperate attempt to get his body right for football.
He has most likely seriously injured his knee to the point where he is out for the season, his base fitness will be the worst it has been for some time and guys that were already in front of him: Jones, Geary, McQualter, Eddy, Ray, Gwilt and maybe even Miles are all going to get 12 months more developed.
The question for the coaching staff is do you persevere with a 26yr old who has not been able to cement a spot in the team in 8 years and whose body keeps breaking down over the next young kid???
It's obvious that he tenure at the club (at least if the injury is as bad as thought) is at least in serious doubt. It's not rocket science.
If you're arguing that I've jumped the guns in terms of his injury is not confirmed, your right BUT my point remains valid and ur just knit picking
And NO he's not the only player to have done his knee, but he's the only player on our current list that is a fringe player at 26, after 8-9 years who will all thought it was make or break time for him who has done his knee.
I also want to point out that I'm actually in favor of keeping him. That doesn't mean I can't see how precarious his position is.
One last note, cut the emotive garbage.
-
ace
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 10683
- Joined: Sun 16 Dec 2007 3:28pm
- Location: St Kilda
- Has thanked: 29 times
- Been thanked: 801 times
There is an extremely good reason to keep X.
The 2010 draft is going to be useless.
This year 2009 the Gold Coast Bikinis can sign the best 12 kids 16.67+ year old.
The next year 2010 they get picks 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 26
When you combine those two together they will have the equivalent of these picks from the 2011 crop.
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 10, 11, 13, 14 16, 17, 19, 20, 22, 23, 26, 29, 32, 35, 38,
The quality left over for the first round is equivalent to 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25
St Kilda first round pick will equivalent to early 20s.
That's like being excluded from the first round like Carlton was in the early 2000s.
Why would you dump X when you can't get access to genuine first round draft picks in coming years (2010 for Gold Coast Bikinis and maybe 2011, 2012 for West Sydney Wankers).
Oh and on top of those picks Queensland is out of bounds for 2010, 2011, 2012 and NT for 2010
The 2010 draft is going to be useless.
This year 2009 the Gold Coast Bikinis can sign the best 12 kids 16.67+ year old.
The next year 2010 they get picks 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 26
When you combine those two together they will have the equivalent of these picks from the 2011 crop.
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 10, 11, 13, 14 16, 17, 19, 20, 22, 23, 26, 29, 32, 35, 38,
The quality left over for the first round is equivalent to 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25
St Kilda first round pick will equivalent to early 20s.
That's like being excluded from the first round like Carlton was in the early 2000s.
Why would you dump X when you can't get access to genuine first round draft picks in coming years (2010 for Gold Coast Bikinis and maybe 2011, 2012 for West Sydney Wankers).
Oh and on top of those picks Queensland is out of bounds for 2010, 2011, 2012 and NT for 2010
The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.
If you are not engaging AI actively and aggressively, you are doing it wrong.
You are not going to lose your job to AI.
You are going lose your job to somebody who uses AI.
Your company is not going to go out of business because of AI.
Your company is going to out of business because another company used AI.
- Jensen Huang, CEO of NVIDIA 50:08
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.
If you are not engaging AI actively and aggressively, you are doing it wrong.
You are not going to lose your job to AI.
You are going lose your job to somebody who uses AI.
Your company is not going to go out of business because of AI.
Your company is going to out of business because another company used AI.
- Jensen Huang, CEO of NVIDIA 50:08
-
bigred
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 11463
- Joined: Tue 09 Mar 2004 7:39am
- Has thanked: 25 times
- Been thanked: 609 times
Good point.Ghost Like wrote:To those who say his career is over, meaning we get a 4th, 5th or 6th round pick in this years draft, a draft that they are already calling thin especially with GC17 locking in the top 12 17 year olds...
YOU HAVE TO BE KIDDING!
Worst case, full knee reco next week, back playing for Sandy in Round 5, 2010 and pushing for senior selection by Rounds 10 or 12. I'm pretty sure that's already a better scenario than a speculative round 5 pick in the November draft.
All the best X with whatever the diagnosis on your knee.
"Now the ball is loose, it gives St. Kilda a rough chance. Black. Good handpass. Voss. Schwarze now, the defender, can run and from a long way".....
I'm not sure it's as simple as that. I remember back to last season, when X came back from injury going into the final series - he was drafted straight back into the team for the Geelong final. That's to me signalled that RL sees him as a regular 22 member. In the event, it quickly became clear that he just wasn't fit.BigMart wrote:I could list Ross's preferred team......it is obvious who is not in it.
X was certainly one of those........
Having said that I can't entirely figure why Eddy was preferred to X for the Port Adelaide game - but what I do know is that we smashed our bogey team by over 60 points so it would seem churlish to argue post-facto about Ross's team selections.
Hird... The unflushable one is now... just a turd...
-
skeptic
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 16565
- Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 7:10pm
- Has thanked: 3454 times
- Been thanked: 2717 times
Hadn't thought of that... excellent point. May well have saved his career.ace wrote:There is an extremely good reason to keep X.
The 2010 draft is going to be useless.
This year 2009 the Gold Coast Bikinis can sign the best 12 kids 16.67+ year old.
The next year 2010 they get picks 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 26
When you combine those two together they will have the equivalent of these picks from the 2011 crop.
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 10, 11, 13, 14 16, 17, 19, 20, 22, 23, 26, 29, 32, 35, 38,
The quality left over for the first round is equivalent to 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25
St Kilda first round pick will equivalent to early 20s.
That's like being excluded from the first round like Carlton was in the early 2000s.
Why would you dump X when you can't get access to genuine first round draft picks in coming years (2010 for Gold Coast Bikinis and maybe 2011, 2012 for West Sydney Wankers).
Oh and on top of those picks Queensland is out of bounds for 2010, 2011, 2012 and NT for 2010
That being said, we'll have to draft 3 kids regardless, I guess it becomes a case of which 3 players would you delist before X???
Too early for this type of discussion anyway
Hard to fault the selection commitee at the moment...seems like alot of people waiting to jump on Ross the first time he makes a mistake..If X up and running at the start of year probs gets a gig but now been over taken by a few ie Geary ???? get over it and enjoy the wins !!!!BigMart wrote:Huge loss
he would have impacted the side IMMEDIATELY on return....
he was CLEARLY above VFL standard, and back in the seniors fully fit would be another player at the ability of a Gram/Ray/Schnieder.
Not sure why Eddy was picked above him, after coming back from injury....
he has played 100+ games
has had dominant AFL games
Played 4 VFL games whilst Eddy was injured, including 1 with Eddy which he was BOG and Eddy was serviceable.....
Eddy was (as he will be) solid but not great, and will never be a 'great' AFL player........X has been a very damaging player when fit...
X is clearly a better player than Gwilt, Mini, Eddy and is also better than Geary and Jones (however they have done enough to keep him out) the first three have not....
BTW - Armitage is in the same boat......he is 20% better player than the ones mentioned, but is in the doghouse.....Eddy walked straight past him.
His career (as a saint) is now over (at 26 and hardly a game 2 years when recovered) he will be confined to the scrapheap.....
bad luck - he deserved better....
not sure there is consistency (I coyuldn't remember Ross's words).....he choses the players he prefers....Eddy is one of those...
I could list Ross's preferred team......it is obvious who is not in it.
X was certainly one of those........Schnieder for instance is one
Jack Newnes happy to be a Saint !!!! PS and to hit a target !!!
BigMart wrote:Huge loss
he would have impacted the side IMMEDIATELY on return....
he was CLEARLY above VFL standard, and back in the seniors fully fit would be another player at the ability of a Gram/Ray/Schnieder.
Not sure why Eddy was picked above him, after coming back from injury....
he has played 100+ games
has had dominant AFL games
Played 4 VFL games whilst Eddy was injured, including 1 with Eddy which he was BOG and Eddy was serviceable.....
Eddy was (as he will be) solid but not great, and will never be a 'great' AFL player........X has been a very damaging player when fit...
X is clearly a better player than Gwilt, Mini, Eddy and is also better than Geary and Jones (however they have done enough to keep him out) the first three have not....
BTW - Armitage is in the same boat......he is 20% better player than the ones mentioned, but is in the doghouse.....Eddy walked straight past him.
His career (as a saint) is now over (at 26 and hardly a game 2 years when recovered) he will be confined to the scrapheap.....
bad luck - he deserved better....
not sure there is consistency (I coyuldn't remember Ross's words).....he choses the players he prefers....Eddy is one of those...
I could list Ross's preferred team......it is obvious who is not in it.
X was certainly one of those........Schnieder for instance is one
i can't believe eddy was in the side and miles picked as the standby emergency in front of x.........he should have been at the dome today...not running around in the magoos yesterday..........i am really pissed ff he got injured, when he should not have even been out on the ground.....
.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"
However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"
However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
-
Saint_in_SA
- Club Player
- Posts: 165
- Joined: Sun 03 Sep 2006 11:52pm
Well, let's be brutally honest here. X's body has been bitterly disappointing given his obvious talent for the game of AFL.
AFL is a business, and the St Kilda Football Club has to make smart business decisions in order to remain viable in the cut throat world of AFL football.
Is is really business smart to keep a player who is clearly injury prone on an AFL list, given that he has just had a knee reco on top of other injury concerns? If this was your business, and you were responsible for making money and doing the hiring and firing, would you keep him?
Unfortunately, we all know what the answer should be. Emotive responses are human nature, but what is required is ruthless list management in order to get a step ahead in this cut throat world. X's body hasn't cut it, period.
Having said that, I wish X all the best in life, football, whatever he wants to do but for the sake of the immediate future of the St Kilda Football Club, he must make way. Harsh or not, this is the reality.....
AFL is a business, and the St Kilda Football Club has to make smart business decisions in order to remain viable in the cut throat world of AFL football.
Is is really business smart to keep a player who is clearly injury prone on an AFL list, given that he has just had a knee reco on top of other injury concerns? If this was your business, and you were responsible for making money and doing the hiring and firing, would you keep him?
Unfortunately, we all know what the answer should be. Emotive responses are human nature, but what is required is ruthless list management in order to get a step ahead in this cut throat world. X's body hasn't cut it, period.
Having said that, I wish X all the best in life, football, whatever he wants to do but for the sake of the immediate future of the St Kilda Football Club, he must make way. Harsh or not, this is the reality.....
A-HUH A-HUH A-HUH
Huge misfortune for the man but to put in perspective of something like the tragedy of the bush fires a minor occurence. Clubwise, a setback of not having a popular,hard working and talented young man pushing to attain and retain a position in our seniors.
To Xavier a speedy and successful recovery.
To Xavier a speedy and successful recovery.
Are you gonna be the one?
-
SuperSaint
- Club Player
- Posts: 907
- Joined: Fri 12 Nov 2004 10:06am
Have I missed something? Did scans reveal it is definitely an ACL rupture?felixleo wrote:Huge misfortune for the man but to put in perspective of something like the tragedy of the bush fires a minor occurence. Clubwise, a setback of not having a popular,hard working and talented young man pushing to attain and retain a position in our seniors.
To Xavier a speedy and successful recovery.
Just throwing this out there but who on this forum thought it a good idea to give Michael Gardiner another contract?
After two years on our list with injuries surely we were better off not bothering with the outside chance that he would get his body right and put together some fantastic performances for us.
The question to be asked is what is the cost to the club of another years contract for X? Who could we put on the list instead? Is it worth a punt?
After two years on our list with injuries surely we were better off not bothering with the outside chance that he would get his body right and put together some fantastic performances for us.
The question to be asked is what is the cost to the club of another years contract for X? Who could we put on the list instead? Is it worth a punt?
"The humble improve" Wynton Marsalis
-
Bernard Shakey
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 11221
- Joined: Sun 18 Mar 2007 11:22pm
- Location: Down By The River 1989, 2003, 2009 & 2013
- Has thanked: 112 times
- Been thanked: 131 times
Stay in SA you idiot and follow one of the local bogan teams.Saint_in_SA wrote:Well, let's be brutally honest here. X's body has been bitterly disappointing given his obvious talent for the game of AFL.
AFL is a business, and the St Kilda Football Club has to make smart business decisions in order to remain viable in the cut throat world of AFL football.
Is is really business smart to keep a player who is clearly injury prone on an AFL list, given that he has just had a knee reco on top of other injury concerns? If this was your business, and you were responsible for making money and doing the hiring and firing, would you keep him?
Unfortunately, we all know what the answer should be. Emotive responses are human nature, but what is required is ruthless list management in order to get a step ahead in this cut throat world. X's body hasn't cut it, period.
Having said that, I wish X all the best in life, football, whatever he wants to do but for the sake of the immediate future of the St Kilda Football Club, he must make way. Harsh or not, this is the reality.....
Old enough to repaint, but young enough to sell
-
Teflon
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 22851
- Joined: Sat 13 Mar 2004 11:44pm
- Has thanked: 714 times
- Been thanked: 1696 times
tonight we sit 6 - 0 and the so called SS footy experts are jumping on our coach for team selections AFTER that fact?
Bizarre, weird lot caught in some ego warp..
X is a very talented footballer who the coach rates but obviously wanted more than a couple of good games in the magoos from him before he forced his way into a side thats been smashing teams - I can understand that.
As for bagging Eddy for getting a spot - Eddy busted his balls pre season HAS the running capacity to play the Lyon style AND the doggedness and tackling tenacity the coach obviously loves.......not that hard to see he would get a gig. Is he a better player than X? Nup. More talent? Nup.......but in saying that haven't we done the whole "gee saints are talented" to death?
I dont think Lyon cares for that - he thinks team.
Bizarre, weird lot caught in some ego warp..
X is a very talented footballer who the coach rates but obviously wanted more than a couple of good games in the magoos from him before he forced his way into a side thats been smashing teams - I can understand that.
As for bagging Eddy for getting a spot - Eddy busted his balls pre season HAS the running capacity to play the Lyon style AND the doggedness and tackling tenacity the coach obviously loves.......not that hard to see he would get a gig. Is he a better player than X? Nup. More talent? Nup.......but in saying that haven't we done the whole "gee saints are talented" to death?
I dont think Lyon cares for that - he thinks team.
“Yeah….nah””
gooner wrote:Just throwing this out there but who on this forum thought it a good idea to give Michael Gardiner another contract?
After two years on our list with injuries surely we were better off not bothering with the outside chance that he would get his body right and put together some fantastic performances for us.
The question to be asked is what is the cost to the club of another years contract for X? Who could we put on the list instead? Is it worth a punt?
Personally I thought it was a good move initially though was worried at the start of last year. All Australian ruckman dont just fall from trees you know, even if they do live in them.
Are you gonna be the one?