Forward Structure - Next 3-4 weeks...

[One Eyed Saint]

Until #12 reaches peak fitness, form and touch we should play Rhys Stanley either as :

a) 3rd tall forward, or
b) rotating with #12 off the bench, or
c) in place of #23 (#23 to play ff/ruck)

Watching the game live on Saturday we lost all forward structure when #12 went off for a rest. Even when he was on the ground, he was struggling with 2nd and 3rd efforts (as you would expect 2nd week back)

With #23 not offering much forward pressure, #12 going just OK - the pies backline ran the ball out with too much ease.

Combined with their midfield dominance, our backline was always going to struggle with the ball coming in to more 1-on-1 contests.

WHY STANLEY YOU ASK?

Answer - Structure, structure structure.....

a) quick.
b) good defensive pressure
c) good leap which creats doubt in mind of backmen
d) creates a contest which brings our smalls in the game.

When were playing some of our best football 4-6 weeks ago Stanley was playing as CHF / FF post.

He may not have great marking skills or a huge physical presence but his attributes (listed above) make the opposition backman worry a little...

A possible downside to this is we become too top heavy (too tall) but Stanley is not your big cumbersome tall.

The other question we wont know the answer for 4-6 weeks is can #12 get back to peak form???? I hope he will but who knows...

As much as it pains me to say it the pies were very good but we left too much to too few and if our forwards are having a bad day, the least they need to do is offer up high defensive pressure. To expect #12 to do this now is unrealistic.

Unless #23 is going to stand up and start being a goal kicking option, we need to look at other alternatives and Stanley might be one of them...

Keep the faith
Go Saints!!

[Buckets]

Until #12 reaches peak fitness, form and touch we should play Rhys Stanley either as :

a) 3rd tall forward, or
b) rotating with #12 off the bench, or
c) in place of #23 (#23 to play ff/ruck)

Watching the game live on Saturday we lost all forward structure when #12 went off for a rest. Even when he was on the ground, he was struggling with 2nd and 3rd efforts (as you would expect 2nd week back)

With #23 not offering much forward pressure, #12 going just OK - the pies backline ran the ball out with too much ease.

Combined with their midfield dominance, our backline was always going to struggle with the ball coming in to more 1-on-1 contests.

WHY STANLEY YOU ASK?

Answer - Structure, structure structure.....

a) quick.
b) good defensive pressure
c) good leap which creats doubt in mind of backmen
d) creates a contest which brings our smalls in the game.

When were playing some of our best football 4-6 weeks ago Stanley was playing as CHF / FF post.

He may not have great marking skills or a huge physical presence but his attributes (listed above) make the opposition backman worry a little...

A possible downside to this is we become too top heavy (too tall) but Stanley is not your big cumbersome tall.

The other question we wont know the answer for 4-6 weeks is can #12 get back to peak form???? I hope he will but who knows...

As much as it pains me to say it the pies were very good but we left too much to too few and if our forwards are having a bad day, the least they need to do is offer up high defensive pressure. To expect #12 to do this now is unrealistic.

Unless #23 is going to stand up and start being a goal kicking option, we need to look at other alternatives and Stanley might be one of them...

Keep the faith
Go Saints!!

He might have been playing but in terms of the ability to hurt the opposition on the scoreboard, he wasnt dangerous. It was the mids and the small forwards doing most of the damage.

A real concern is that since Roo has been back, we have been too narrow in the getting the ball to Roo at all costs! We should have learnt with him out that they can kick the goals alongside Roo!!!!

[Con Gorozidis]

at least stanley would run and around and give a handball or something.
kosi has just become a 6'6 garden gnome.

[borderbarry]

Maybe Tom Lynch should get a go. He had a fair game yesterday apparently. And it is not as if we dont need a HFF.

[sainter104]

Kosi to the magoos and Roo to to the wing Stanley FF

[plugger66]

Kosi to the magoos and Roo to to the wing Stanley FF

That should solve our goal kicking.

[samoht]

Lyon loves small forwards.

Going for 3-4 small forwards that are not exceptionally quick may backfire again in tough finals - where they will be monstered by bigger. taller opponents that are just as quick - maybe even quicker.

Roo and our back line may need to get us over the line again... if we keep to a predominantly small forward structure.

[Beekay]

kosi has just become a 6'6 garden gnome.

Bit harsh. Garden gnomes stand up in all conditions.

[ThePunter]

4 slowish small forwards worked against Geelong in Round 13.

Just getting used to having Riewoldt back.

[spert]

I would like to give Stanley all the chances in the world, but to be honest he has done practically nothing for most of the games he has played in the seniors, though that's more than Kosi at the moment.

[samoht]

4 slowish small forwards worked against Geelong in Round 13

One swallow doth not a summer make - LeCras and Milne also kicked 12 and 11 goals once as small forwards .. so what.
come the final's what has history shown ? - to me it's shown that we invariably need Roo and our back line to get us over the line ... our midfield should break even and our predominantly small forwards will probably be overwhelmed again.

[3rd generation saint]

Mind you, twice on Saturday they put the ball up for Kosi to mark one on one where he a leap at the ball and twice he marked, kicked 1.1, but should have got both.
Also, one of our forward structure problems is that on several occasions we won the ball at half back, got it to mid field only to look up the ground to see none of our forwards we're there.

[ThePunter]

4 slowish small forwards worked against Geelong in Round 13

One swallow doth not a summer make - LeCras and Milne also kicked 12 and 11 goals once as small forwards .. so what.
come the final's what has history shown ? - to me it's shown that we invariably need Roo and our back line to get us over the line ... our midfield should break even and our predominantly small forwards will probably be overwhelmed again.

If one swallow doth not a summer make, neither does one cloud maketh a winter.

As everyone's overreaction is to Saturday's loss to Collingwood, I thought citing one game was well established convention.

The boys played terribly. All of them. They'll be better.

[samoht]

4 slowish small forwards worked against Geelong in Round 13

One swallow doth not a summer make - LeCras and Milne also kicked 12 and 11 goals once as small forwards .. so what.
come the final's what has history shown ? - to me it's shown that we invariably need Roo and our back line to get us over the line ... our midfield should break even and our predominantly small forwards will probably be overwhelmed again.

If one swallow doth not a summer make, neither does one cloud maketh a winter.

As everyone's overreaction is to Saturday's loss to Collingwood, I thought citing one game was well established convention.

The boys played terribly. All of them. They'll be better.

I'm reacting to our forward structure (and how it works during finals) and our over reliance on Roo in finals - not to last week...or necessarily look at changes for the next 3-4 weeks as the post asked.
A bit of licence .. but it's the finals that will be important.

So forget last week - what have the finals shown us ?

[ThePunter]

Our two leading goalkickers are small forwards, and we're 12-4.

Don't panic.

[Thinline]

I reckon everyone expects 2009 all the time now. It was a freak year. Won't happen for another 100 years. Move on.

[starsign]

well whatever forward structure RL comes up with this week it shouldn't include Gwilty for mine!
Jeez he's been doing a great job down back and his shift up forward against the Pies wasn't exactly best foot forward as it turned out, and we lost out both ends!!
I don't mind Stanley but wouldn't be surprised to see Lynch getting a crack He has been in the best for a few weeks running now for the Zebs I think

Oh for a hard at it forward a la Sammy Hamill!

[vacuous space]

As far as talls go, I'd be going with Kosi, Patto, McEvoy or Stanley as second ruck and part time forward and going small with the rest. We've played a small forward line for a lot of the year and looked a lot better than when we played a tall one. I think most of the good defences are big anyway and are more prone to a smaller, quicker forward line than they are against a tall one.

I'd go with Roo, Milne, Schneider, Steven and Mini with BJ, Dal, Joey and maybe Peake or Ray rotating through.

I don't think our forward line was that bad on the weekend. We only had 38 entries, 20 down on the Brisbane game. We still managed to score 22 times, albeit mostly minors. I had a much bigger problem with our lack of intensity all over the field in that game. We were beaten at the contests and applied very little pressure. I don't think we were moving very well at all. Whether it was illness or the Gabba or something else, it wasn't encouraging, and I hope it goes away quickly.

[plugger66]

As far as talls go, I'd be going with Kosi, Patto, McEvoy or Stanley as second ruck and part time forward and going small with the rest. We've played a small forward line for a lot of the year and looked a lot better than when we played a tall one. I think most of the good defences are big anyway and are more prone to a smaller, quicker forward line than they are against a tall one.

I'd go with Roo, Milne, Schneider, Steven and Mini with BJ, Dal, Joey and maybe Peake or Ray rotating through.

I don't think our forward line was that bad on the weekend. We only had 38 entries, 20 down on the Brisbane game. We still managed to score 22 times, albeit mostly minors. I had a much bigger problem with our lack of intensity all over the field in that game. We were beaten at the contests and applied very little pressure. I don't think we were moving very well at all. Whether it was illness or the Gabba or something else, it wasn't encouraging, and I hope it goes away quickly.

There is no way 3 talls will play forward. RL has shown that isnt his preferred structure and i agree with him. he wants forward pressure and that is created with smalls and only a couple of talls.

[vacuous space]

There is no way 3 talls will play forward.

Perhaps I need to work on articulating myself better, but I was suggesting that we go with one permanent tall forward and one part time forward/second ruck.

[plugger66]

There is no way 3 talls will play forward.

Perhaps I need to work on articulating myself better, but I was suggesting that we go with one permanent tall forward and one part time forward/second ruck.

Sorry missed that but again they arent going to have a part time tall. They need to for structure.

[vacuous space]

Sorry missed that but again they arent going to have a part time tall. They need to for structure.

Neither team on Saturday seemed particularly committed to two talls up front. We just happened to have an extra tall body floating around. Hawthorn also only carry one genuine ruckman. They're rucking Skipper as their second. They only played one tall forward last weekend. They'll play two this week, but the difference is they actually have two good ones.

[Bernard Shakey]

There is no way 3 talls will play forward.

Perhaps I need to work on articulating myself better, but I was suggesting that we go with one permanent tall forward and one part time forward/second ruck.

Sorry missed that but again they arent going to have a part time tall. They need to for structure.

What do you call Kosi, if not a part time tall? A part time footballer?

[FQF]

I think it might be a useful experiment giving Ray a go in the forward line for at least a full half - not just a 10 minute burst - so that he can really settle in and take advantage of his exceptional overhead marking ability.

I feel he could play a Jimmy Bartell type role given their similarities as small yet strong overhead.

He could also be quite creative when the ball hits the deck. Such a move could possibly cause a mismatch for opposition defenders.

I noticed Rhys Shaw played a full game up forward this week to great effect for the Swans. IMO Ray could be just as successful if given the chance to settle into the role.

[Thinline]

There is no way 3 talls will play forward.

Perhaps I need to work on articulating myself better, but I was suggesting that we go with one permanent tall forward and one part time forward/second ruck.

Sorry missed that but again they arent going to have a part time tall. They need to for structure.

What do you call Kosi, if not a part time tall? A part time footballer?

What's a part time tall? A 5'11"er with the unique ability to add six vertebrae on demand or something?