Is it time to play Kosi Ruck or CHB!

[Batnoe]

As much as i love Gardiner, he wont be around forever

Big Mac, is still young as a ruckmen so every game is worth his development.

I say play kosi into the ruck... why take away our current defence to help out Kosi?

we've had the best defence in conseutive years and u want to add another player there when we dont need him there?

Our backline is settled, i would play kosi in ruck... where he can get flow of game, or until he gains some confidence... im sure it will come, he hasnt recovered since his hand injury last year unfortunately

[FQF]

As much as i love Gardiner, he wont be around forever

Big Mac, is still young as a ruckmen so every game is worth his development.

I say play kosi into the ruck... why take away our current defence to help out Kosi?

we've had the best defence in conseutive years and u want to add another player there when we dont need him there?

Our backline is settled, i would play kosi in ruck... where he can get flow of game, or until he gains some confidence... im sure it will come, he hasnt recovered since his hand injury last year unfortunately

I'm sorry but I cannot accept a split webbing as adequate excuse for his form. It happened almost a year ago.

Unless it was something far worse that no one knows about, it is just a coincidence that the split webbing coincided with his dramatic drop in form.

[Batnoe]

As much as i love Gardiner, he wont be around forever

Big Mac, is still young as a ruckmen so every game is worth his development.

I say play kosi into the ruck... why take away our current defence to help out Kosi?

we've had the best defence in conseutive years and u want to add another player there when we dont need him there?

Our backline is settled, i would play kosi in ruck... where he can get flow of game, or until he gains some confidence... im sure it will come, he hasnt recovered since his hand injury last year unfortunately

I'm sorry but I cannot accept a split webbing as adequate excuse for his form. It happened almost a year ago.

Unless it was something far worse that no one knows about, it is just a coincidence that the split webbing coincided with his dramatic drop in form.

i reckon he snapped a tendon to be honest... and had it operated on after the season, he is probably still scared of re snapping it...

i like him in the forward line.... he has played 12 games as main fwd without Roo when he has played 2nd fiddle for so long, its a hard gig.

so to get him back, play him in ruck, not in backline

[FQF]

As much as i love Gardiner, he wont be around forever

Big Mac, is still young as a ruckmen so every game is worth his development.

I say play kosi into the ruck... why take away our current defence to help out Kosi?

we've had the best defence in conseutive years and u want to add another player there when we dont need him there?

Our backline is settled, i would play kosi in ruck... where he can get flow of game, or until he gains some confidence... im sure it will come, he hasnt recovered since his hand injury last year unfortunately

I'm sorry but I cannot accept a split webbing as adequate excuse for his form. It happened almost a year ago.

Unless it was something far worse that no one knows about, it is just a coincidence that the split webbing coincided with his dramatic drop in form.

i reckon he snapped a tendon to be honest... and had it operated on after the season, he is probably still scared of re snapping it...

i like him in the forward line.... he has played 12 games as main fwd without Roo when he has played 2nd fiddle for so long, its a hard gig.

so to get him back, play him in ruck, not in backline

This week could be a good one for Kosi (yes i know we all dream of it every week) but given Hawthorn's shortage of quality tall defenders, and Roo's weekly improvement, Kosi might just be left isolated with a substandard opponent.


Who knows... we're always just hoping with Kos.

[Bernard Shakey]

As much as i love Gardiner, he wont be around forever

Big Mac, is still young as a ruckmen so every game is worth his development.

I say play kosi into the ruck... why take away our current defence to help out Kosi?

we've had the best defence in conseutive years and u want to add another player there when we dont need him there?

Our backline is settled, i would play kosi in ruck... where he can get flow of game, or until he gains some confidence... im sure it will come, he hasnt recovered since his hand injury last year unfortunately

I'm sorry but I cannot accept a split webbing as adequate excuse for his form. It happened almost a year ago.

Unless it was something far worse that no one knows about, it is just a coincidence that the split webbing coincided with his dramatic drop in form.

i reckon he snapped a tendon to be honest... and had it operated on after the season, he is probably still scared of re snapping it...

i like him in the forward line.... he has played 12 games as main fwd without Roo when he has played 2nd fiddle for so long, its a hard gig.

so to get him back, play him in ruck, not in backline

You reckon his hand is rooted and want to play him in the ruck. That makes sense.

[FQF]

As much as i love Gardiner, he wont be around forever

Big Mac, is still young as a ruckmen so every game is worth his development.

I say play kosi into the ruck... why take away our current defence to help out Kosi?

we've had the best defence in conseutive years and u want to add another player there when we dont need him there?

Our backline is settled, i would play kosi in ruck... where he can get flow of game, or until he gains some confidence... im sure it will come, he hasnt recovered since his hand injury last year unfortunately

I'm sorry but I cannot accept a split webbing as adequate excuse for his form. It happened almost a year ago.

Unless it was something far worse that no one knows about, it is just a coincidence that the split webbing coincided with his dramatic drop in form.

i reckon he snapped a tendon to be honest... and had it operated on after the season, he is probably still scared of re snapping it...

i like him in the forward line.... he has played 12 games as main fwd without Roo when he has played 2nd fiddle for so long, its a hard gig.

so to get him back, play him in ruck, not in backline

You reckon his hand is rooted and want to play him in the ruck. That makes sense.

Seeing as the best tap outs are a very light touch redirecting the flight path of the ball to your team's favour, I don't see how it should be too taxing on his hand.

Streaming out of the forward line and marking a ball coming towards you at extreme speeds would be a lot harder for an injured hand to deal with then a deft touch.

Who know? Maybe that's why he's dropping everything.

[Bernard Shakey]

He's not dropping everything, just making very bad decisions and if he does drop it there is no second effort. Has nothing to do with his hand, more to do with his lack of a football brain.

[FQF]

He's not dropping everything, just making very bad decisions and if he does drop it there is no second effort. Has nothing to do with his hand, more to do with his lack of a football brain.

Actually, I think his football brain is fine, except that he is thinking so hard about the right option he is boycotting his first instinct to find the perfect option... and by then, zones/floods are in place and his kick is ineffective.

It all comes with the lack of confidence.

[Batnoe]

I dont know what hand he injured, but maybe it is the opposite hand he used in the ruck?

[rodgerfox]

He dropped Dal and Milne without better replacements.

.

Yes he did for specific role reasons.

On this we agree. This is different that the current Kosi situation which is form and not role related.

I think we also agree that Kosi is "trying" to achieve the role that Lyon wants. Where I think we disagree is the level that Kosi is achieving at. IMO Lyon will want "more please".

But no one seems to get dropped for not doing enough.

Guys turn the ball over regularly, and keep getting a game.

Guys gift the opposition goals - but keep getting games.

Guys don't get a kick - yet continue to keep their spot in the team.


I don't think offensive attributes are a factor. And if they are, they're a distant second to the defensive things that players are directed to do.

[FQF]

He dropped Dal and Milne without better replacements.

.

Yes he did for specific role reasons.

On this we agree. This is different that the current Kosi situation which is form and not role related.

I think we also agree that Kosi is "trying" to achieve the role that Lyon wants. Where I think we disagree is the level that Kosi is achieving at. IMO Lyon will want "more please".

But no one seems to get dropped for not doing enough.

Guys turn the ball over regularly, and keep getting a game.

Guys gift the opposition goals - but keep getting games.

Guys don't get a kick - yet continue to keep their spot in the team.


I don't think offensive attributes are a factor. And if they are, they're a distant second to the defensive things that players are directed to do.

Turning the ball over regularly and gifting opposition goals would be defensive flaws...

If only it were so simple.

Truth is though, we really have no idea why people are dropped or not dropped every week.

From my point of view, almost every game Armo played for us this year was better than any of Mini's... but he was dropped instantly, and Mini is still hanging around.

However, it gives me some sort of hope that they know exactly what they're doing and its far more complex than anyone on the outside can comprehend.

[rodgerfox]

Turning the ball over regularly and gifting opposition goals would be defensive flaws...

You'd think so.

But for whatever reason, it doesn't seem to be an issue.

Skills appear (from the outside) to be the least significant factor in someone getting a game or not.

[FQF]

Turning the ball over regularly and gifting opposition goals would be defensive flaws...

You'd think so.

But for whatever reason, it doesn't seem to be an issue.

Skills appear (from the outside) to be the least significant factor in someone getting a game or not.

If we were sitting on the other end of the ladder, I'd be seriously concerned.

But whatever goes on behind closed doors at Moorabbin seems to do the trick...

Nonetheless, it is very strange to the naked eye.

[SainterK]

There are other reasons to be dropped though, it's not always about form or aspects of your game.

As I mentioned elsewhere, Kosi is far from our worst tackler out of our forwards at the moment.

[FQF]

There are other reasons to be dropped though, it's not always about form or aspects of your game.

As I mentioned elsewhere, Kosi is far from our worst tackler out of our forwards at the moment.

Have you got the stats?

[SainterK]

There are other reasons to be dropped though, it's not always about form or aspects of your game.

As I mentioned elsewhere, Kosi is far from our worst tackler out of our forwards at the moment.

Have you got the stats?

Yep, this is a good link

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/tr-s ... t=TA&st=TA

[FQF]

7 Jack Steven 6 4.17

19 Justin Koschitzke 11 2.09

21 Stephen Milne 16 1.94

25 Nick Riewoldt 5 1.60

29 Rhys Stanley 6 1.17


Those would probably be our fulltime forwards when playing.

Milne is just below Kosi, basically both at 2 a game, yet Milne contributes far greater on the scoreboard.

Roo was injured for the entire Collingwood game, plus the last two games he has been well below par, so it is not an accurate assessment.

And Stanley... well I guess that why Kosi is still in and not Stanley, like many posters are demanding for.

Interesting to note...

16 Adam Pattison 4 2.75

If he could convert a couple of his opportunities per game, Kosi's spot could be in serious jeopardy. For a guy his size, Pato's tackling is exceptional.

Also interesting...

In round one Roo has 3 tackles and in round two he had one.

To be fair though, in round two North were so pathetic I doubt there would have been many tackling opportunities.

[SainterK]

Yes, that's why I think people should give Patto a clean sheet at the Saints and forgive him his history...his tackling has been great, and he is obviously trying to play in our style.

On the weekend Patto and Kosi rotated between the ruck and forward, I think this weekend we may see Ben and Kosi do the same, I think it's perhaps the second spot in the ruck may be between Ben and Adam at this stage?

Unless Kosi rolling his ankle in the Collingwood game may see him miss again?

[Milan Faletic]

2010 Saints Goalkicking

McQualter 8.5
Steven 9.2
Koschitzke 12.12
Dal Santo 12.7
Riewoldt 13.8
Montagna 14.12
Goddard 16.8
Schneider 25.13
Milne 38.23

[plugger66]

Turning the ball over regularly and gifting opposition goals would be defensive flaws...

You'd think so.

But for whatever reason, it doesn't seem to be an issue.

Skills appear (from the outside) to be the least significant factor in someone getting a game or not.

RF I know exactly what you are up to and you will deny it because you have actually said it anywhere but this is your way of again having a go at RL.

[backit]

In defence of Kosi in todays Australian, an article by Greg Denham.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/sp ... 5895296489

[rodgerfox]

RF I know exactly what you are up to and you will deny it because you have actually said it anywhere but this is your way of again having a go at RL.

Not really having a go - but yes, the apparent lack of emphasis on skill does concern me a bit.

We are a horribly skilled side, and this cost us a flag. It does worry/bother me that we haven't improved in this area over the past few years and that there doesn't seem to be any big fuss about improving it.

[SainterK]

RF I know exactly what you are up to and you will deny it because you have actually said it anywhere but this is your way of again having a go at RL.

Not really having a go - but yes, the apparent lack of emphasis on skill does concern me a bit.

We are a horribly skilled side, and this cost us a flag. It does worry/bother me that we haven't improved in this area over the past few years and that there doesn't seem to be any big fuss about improving it.

Our skills will improve heading towards September, as will our 4 quarter effort, as will our forward pressure....

Lock it in

[rodgerfox]

Our skills will improve heading towards September, as will our 4 quarter effort, as will our forward pressure....

Lock it in

Why?

They've been average at best, for 2 years. Why will they suddenly come good over the next month?

[SainterK]

Our skills will improve heading towards September, as will our 4 quarter effort, as will our forward pressure....

Lock it in

Why?

They've been average at best, for 2 years. Why will they suddenly come good over the next month?

Firstly, not all of our players skills are poor, some players are amongst the best in the comp.

We have had a few shockers this year, but as I mentioned yesterday, they have not much left to do to now, to pretty much lock in a top 4 finish.

Maintain there is an air of impatience at the club, to get to the business end, then I think we'll see more of a formidable St Kilda burst out of the blocks.

Just my opinion...