'You'll see a different type of St Kilda' - Ratten's initial plan going into 2021

[evertonfc]

Taken from here - https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/you ... 56o47.html - in December 2020.

Ratten has pledged to allow his team to "go out and play" and not to weigh them down with tactics and structures. The Saints have suddenly become a very quick team and Ratten wants his players to embrace their inner flair and creativity.

I think this is rather instructive with regards to how we're playing in 2021.

We're 2-4, playing without structure, instead relying on players to instinctively make good decisions. Which they're absolutely not, because teams are using tactics that force us into making bad decisions (like bombing it long to the F50, where the opponent has numbers back behind the ball).

Watching us get absolutely torn up by a heavily systems-based team (Richmond) was incredibly instructive as it demonstrated to all of us how we want to play (individuals using their flair) as against their style (using teamwork and structures).

It feels as though we've erred so strongly on the side of anti-system that the players themselves are confused about who is doing what, when they should be doing it and who has responsibility - Nick Coffield and Dougal Howard clashing last night seemed to reveal exactly that.

Not every player can afford to be following their instincts, running ahead of the ball and hoping for the "easy one out the back". It feels like we've given a free licence to too many; very few seem committed to contesting, and I can't help but feel that's because too many are playing the way they would like to play, rather than doing what the team requires them to.

I'm no fan of how the players are going about it, but the more I look at it, we've got our tactics massively wrong.

We have over-estimated the capacity of the playing group - who are ultimately no more than workmanlike, and we are now finding out the hard way that this "choose your own adventure" style simply doesn't work for our list.

This will be up to Ratten and his coaching staff to identify and recognise - the longer it goes on, the more our confidence will drop, and the worse it will end up being. This experiment has to be brought to a halt.

[Vortex]

"Choose your own adventure"

I love that, sums up the situation perfectly.

The Cuddles Culture is backfiring spectacularly and at frightening speed. I remember that article and what coaches say over the pre season can have poignant ramifications in season and I just hope we have a coach that can admit when he's got it wrong and have the flexibility to turn on a 10 cent coin.

This sh1t show is looking like a coach stuff up.

[saintsRrising]

No matter how good or bad your list is you need a gameplan and well drilled tactics.

I think for example GWS have been an example in past years of having a huge amount of talent that was not fully utilised as they tended to just go with relying on individual brilliance.


In this season all most of our opponents have been well drilled and knew what each team mate was doing.

We just seem to lack any real system and seem to try and rely on having hot streaks to save the day.

Rats seems focussed on forward entries as his measure of success rather than on goals scored

[saintsRrising]

Taken from here - https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/you ... 56o47.html - in December 2020.

Ratten has pledged to allow his team to "go out and play" and not to weigh them down with tactics and structures. The Saints have suddenly become a very quick team and Ratten wants his players to embrace their inner flair and creativity.

I think this is rather instructive with regards to how we're playing in 2021.

We're 2-4, playing without structure, instead relying on players to instinctively make good decisions. Which they're absolutely not, because teams are using tactics that force us into making bad decisions (like bombing it long to the F50, where the opponent has numbers back behind the ball).

Watching us get absolutely torn up by a heavily systems-based team (Richmond) was incredibly instructive as it demonstrated to all of us how we want to play (individuals using their flair) as against their style (using teamwork and structures).

It feels as though we've erred so strongly on the side of anti-system that the players themselves are confused about who is doing what, when they should be doing it and who has responsibility - Nick Coffield and Dougal Howard clashing last night seemed to reveal exactly that.

Not every player can afford to be following their instincts, running ahead of the ball and hoping for the "easy one out the back". It feels like we've given a free licence to too many; very few seem committed to contesting, and I can't help but feel that's because too many are playing the way they would like to pay, rather than doing what the team requires them to.

I'm no fan of how the players are going about it, but the more I look at it, we've got our tactics massively wrong.

We have over-estimated the capacity of the playing group - who are ultimately no more than workmanlike, and we are now finding out the hard way that this "choose your own adventure" style simply doesn't work for our list.

This will be up to Ratten and his coaching staff to identify and recognise - the longer it goes on, the more our confidence will drop, and the worse it will end up being. This experiment has to be brought to a halt.

Good post. I do not know what our coaches were thinking this year. It seems to be that "Park Footy" was the way to go...

[Vortex]

And the last thing Ratts should say in the media is to tell us only the opinions of people inside the "four walls" matter.

If we reach that point this year then you know its terminal.

Shutting down and covering up never works.

[Waltzing St Kilda]

Excellent post.

[bangaulegend]

Well he was on the money we have seen a different type of St.Kilda but I'm not loving it that's for sure

[Teflon]

Ratten needs help IMO
He’s proven historically that he is not a defensive coach at all - it looks good when all is going our way with a full squad to choose from......not so good when the wheels start coming off like lately.

IMO we are stale with many football club personnel- Hamiltonian has to go , Sexton go, Lade? And didn’t we hire some tactical genius to sit in the box?? Gonski
It might not be popular but Ratten if smart ought to reach out to Lyon and get some defensive consultancy support....Lyon could even give him a view on
1. Defensive game plan - how Ratts keeps his style but adapts/adds to it when the flow ain’t going our way
2. Assistants - who knows their shyte and who are just dumb ex footballers??? (lots of the latter around..)
I think Ratten can coach , I think he can adapt if it were me Is drop the ego and sound Lyon out....after all if we one day grab a flag it’s Ratten’s name as coach and we ought to be thinking now how do I build this side out to be a genuine contender.

It’ll never happen btw

[thejiggingsaint]

Was Ratten allowed to select his own assistant coaches, when he took on the position?

[ROLS-LEE]

one paced, King not strong enough yet to clunk pack marks consistently. No forward structure. No structural change when getting pumped. Carlisle back, Howard forward etc. Put different players in the midfield. Billings, Butler etc
Ryder back will help but we need speed. Too many plodders.

[Teflon]

Was Ratten allowed to select his own assistant coaches, when he took on the position?

Looks like he just kept them all
Demands a football review top to bottom
We are carrying deadwood FFS Hamill and Sexton etc been round too long turn em over steal some IP from the top sides get Fargon ruthless
We are just too dumb jobs for mates

[Teflon]

Below from Bigfooty poster who went to training.....its telling that’s what we are seeing game day.....ffs max King is a lead up forward let him run and jump no one will spoil him!! Geez us how much do we pay these incompetent farwits



Can confirm. Popped into training last Thursday, and they were training the system that we are currently playing, which basically is Dougs plays on from FB, kicks it long down the line to a contest, mids win ball, hand off to outside runner who kicks it deep to Max. Works well at training against the c-graders we call ‘depth’ but falls apart in games. The players are doing exactly what the coaches are asking of them. It’s our system that is failing, which has led to a total erosion of trust and confidence in the way we play.

[SAINT-LEE]

I dont agree.

I think you are taking the piss.

You think Ratts is saying....listen, " there's no game plan, no structures or system, just have fun with your mates playing with the ball and Ill see you in 2 hours?"

Have you been to training this year?
Ridiculous.

You are taking his words out of context.

With both Ryder and Rowan in the centre and giving mids first touch, directing play and moving forward to support the game allows players to run to their strengths....fly by the pack knowing you might likely get a hand ball as you streak along, use initiative to play your game.

You can call that when you have the advantage, whe you are confident that your first line of defence in Geary & Patton are rebounding the ball forward - you be inventive, creative and EXPECTANT of opportunity.

With those key players gone, if you run that game you're left looking like a twat because the ball isnt there. So you're chasing the ball, you're getting desperate, you stop playing your game - like Hill and he spends 85% of his time in defense trying to stop the pounding from losing every centre contest and the ball entering 50 relentlessly.

Listen to Ratts talk about what chaos is wrought when we lose the centre, he chatted after our Ruchmond loss about what was happening and how players were losing their natural game to run and chase incessantly and we were getting cooked.

[flack]

So now we have a coach who doesn't coach but gives everybody the "freedom" to do their own thing. How ridiculous. Earn your money Ratts, get out there and give them a plan and structure otherwise we will be the rabble we look like for the rest of the season. Surprise, surprise it might just give them the confidence they are lacking - that's your job. They all know how to play they just need a plan.

[SaintPav]

And the last thing Ratts should say in the media is to tell us only the opinions of people inside the "four walls" matter.

If we reach that point this year then you know its terminal.

Shutting down and covering up never works.

Sticking by the players publicly but his messaging internally is obviously different though, I hope.

[freely]

Ratten needs help IMO
He’s proven historically that he is not a defensive coach at all - it looks good when all is going our way with a full squad to choose from......not so good when the wheels start coming off like lately.

IMO we are stale with many football club personnel- Hamiltonian has to go , Sexton go, Lade? And didn’t we hire some tactical genius to sit in the box?? Gonski
It might not be popular but Ratten if smart ought to reach out to Lyon and get some defensive consultancy support....Lyon could even give him a view on
1. Defensive game plan - how Ratts keeps his style but adapts/adds to it when the flow ain’t going our way
2. Assistants - who knows their shyte and who are just dumb ex footballers??? (lots of the latter around..)
I think Ratten can coach , I think he can adapt if it were me Is drop the ego and sound Lyon out....after all if we one day grab a flag it’s Ratten’s name as coach and we ought to be thinking now how do I build this side out to be a genuine contender.

It’ll never happen btw

ever reliable! cue saintsational argument 247

[repta]

"Choose your own adventure" ... hilarious ....
If ever there was an award to have a shot at the leadership this would win the award.

The saints are either not drilled in the game plan so they can execute, or the game plan is misguided.

The game plan seems to be easily unravelled each week with little effort. We won against West Coast, but we were awful in the first 2 quarters. We were also lucky against GWS (it could have gone either way). Therefore an good second half (WC) and up and so-so game against GWS we have essentially been acceptable for maybe 8 quarters out of 24 in total.

Therefore we are certainly seeing a different Stkilda from last year (but the same old StKida)

[repta]

You'll see a different type of St Kilda' - Ratten's initial plan going into 2021

Yep a FATTER and UNFIT Stkilda. Easy to spot

[seano1]

Ratten needs help IMO
He’s proven historically that he is not a defensive coach at all - it looks good when all is going our way with a full squad to choose from......not so good when the wheels start coming off like lately.

IMO we are stale with many football club personnel- Hamiltonian has to go , Sexton go, Lade? And didn’t we hire some tactical genius to sit in the box?? Gonski
It might not be popular but Ratten if smart ought to reach out to Lyon and get some defensive consultancy support....Lyon could even give him a view on
1. Defensive game plan - how Ratts keeps his style but adapts/adds to it when the flow ain’t going our way
2. Assistants - who knows their shyte and who are just dumb ex footballers??? (lots of the latter around..)
I think Ratten can coach , I think he can adapt if it were me Is drop the ego and sound Lyon out....after all if we one day grab a flag it’s Ratten’s name as coach and we ought to be thinking now how do I build this side out to be a genuine contender.

It’ll never happen btw

I think thats a pretty fare comment....Hammil has been there quite a few yrs and has had a hand in looking after each group over that period but has it improved anything, not sure to be honest but we need a couple of newbies or proven ones to come in .
Someone needs to have the balls to tell ratts that it’s no good having our forward talls trying to outmark each other or crowding the forward line they need to spread out .

[B.M]

So now it’s the assistants?!

It used to be Richo??!!

[Wayne42]

So now it’s the assistants?!

It used to be Richo??!!

It used to be Seaford.

[B.M]

Yep

Training on a different oval 25mins away made all the difference!

[Vortex]

Isn't it just the players this time around?

They deserve all the criticism for this current crisis.

Over paid selfish and entitled sooks dishing up bruise free footy.

[The Billings Method]

Ratten needs help IMO
He’s proven historically that he is not a defensive coach at all - it looks good when all is going our way with a full squad to choose from......not so good when the wheels start coming off like lately.

IMO we are stale with many football club personnel- Hamiltonian has to go , Sexton go, Lade? And didn’t we hire some tactical genius to sit in the box?? Gonski
It might not be popular but Ratten if smart ought to reach out to Lyon and get some defensive consultancy support....Lyon could even give him a view on
1. Defensive game plan - how Ratts keeps his style but adapts/adds to it when the flow ain’t going our way
2. Assistants - who knows their shyte and who are just dumb ex footballers??? (lots of the latter around..)
I think Ratten can coach , I think he can adapt if it were me Is drop the ego and sound Lyon out....after all if we one day grab a flag it’s Ratten’s name as coach and we ought to be thinking now how do I build this side out to be a genuine contender.

It’ll never happen btw

I think thats a pretty fare comment....Hammil has been there quite a few yrs and has had a hand in looking after each group over that period but has it improved anything, not sure to be honest but we need a couple of newbies or proven ones to come in .
Someone needs to have the balls to tell ratts that it’s no good having our forward talls trying to outmark each other or crowding the forward line they need to spread out .

Hamill has failed in every position he's had at the club. Elshaug 2.0. He has powerful mates at the club, but it's time to go. 2 weeks.

[Teflon]

So now it’s the assistants?!

It used to be Richo??!!

Yeah cause it’s always just 1 thing right??
You’re the sports /PE/Amateur superstar who just missed AFL selection.....so you tell us oh “wise one after the fact” .....