Long

[B.M]

Pick 25 2016

Should be a best 22 player now at 24yo

Not in the best 10 defenders

Not in the best 10 forwards

Not a mid

He ended last season in and out of the side as a defensive forward (a position where players go to end their career!)

Has yet to cement a position, has ability but lacks consistency

[The_Dud]

I think that’s a bit harsh on both counts.

Has all the ability, just needs to work with the coaches to find his role, a bit like Battle.

If he went to another club I think we’d have another Hind situation on our hands (same with Battle).

[Ghost Like]

He needs to get a lot more possessions & use them effectively if he's to be anything more than depth.

Battle needs to demand a position rather than the collective keeping their fingers crossed he becomes the player we want, otherwise he's only back up, along with Joyce.

[Impatient Sainter]

I think he is one of those players who over thinks things and gets lost at times. It would be interesting to see his GPS results as I dont think his low possession rate is the result of not working hard enough? Some players suffer from too much input from coaches and I think he is one. He needs to be freed up to just go and win the footy and forget about all the other stuff.

ATM he is not in the best 22 so he has a lot of work to do to start playing consistent footy. I would like to see Ratts do the same as he has with DMac and change Long's role to a wing where he can be allowed to play a more natural game.

[CQ SAINT]

Meh. Depth player and we have already drafted to replace him.

[Gershwin]

I don’t think he has a great football brain.
Not a good decision maker.
Courageous, committed and fit and well suited to a lesser competition.

[B.M]

Players find their own roles by showing something when given an opportunity

He’s had opportunities at HF and HB and has been average

Cracks in, can take a grab but can’t find the footy

[bergsone]

Play him midfield at Sandy,find the footy and use it then will see if hes a fit in the ones

[The Fireman]

He hurts people. I like him

[skeptic]

The nail hit on the head is that he doesn’t get enough ball.

Regardless, he’s tough and committed to the contest. His games as a defensive forward are way better then Kent + Lonie because he gets to many more contests and is present.

On a HBF, he was quite erratic but he was capable of playing some very decent football… I quite like him there but he’s very all or nothing in his approach. By that I mean he doesn’t play that well to the structure. He’ll attack the contest or take on the man in each and every instance and live/die by the result.

Challenge is of course position. No idea where his best fit is,
I know I like him on the list and is at least a good depth player.

Personally I endorse the approach listed above. Put him in the midfield at Sandy with specific instructions to work on disposal and decision making. See if that bears any fruit

[Gershwin]

The nail hit on the head is that he doesn’t get enough ball.

Regardless, he’s tough and committed to the contest. His games as a defensive forward are way better then Kent + Lonie because he gets to watch more contests and is present.

On a HBF, he was quite erratic but he was capable of playing some very decent football… I quite like him there but he’s very all or nothing in his approach. By that I mean he doesn’t play that well to the structure. He’ll attack the contest or take on the man in each and every instance and live/die by the result.

Challenge is of course position. No idea where his best fit is,
I know I like him on the list and is at least a good depth player.

Personally I endorse the approach listed above. Put him in the midfield at Sandy with specific instructions to work on disposal and decision making. See if that bears any fruit

Worth a try but I will be betting he will hardly get a touch.

[Impatient Sainter]

BM is right in that he has never been a high possession winner, whether thats because of his limited footy IQ, who knows.

I do think however, if he doesn't find form this year he could find himself looking for somewhere else to play next season? He is one of those players who kids like Connolly, Byrnes and this years group may go past him very quickly.

[Zed]

I’d like to see him tried as a run with player. Much like Jack Steele was several years ago.
At the very least he will put a bit of doubt in some player’s minds
Won’t matter If his possessions count is low if he also holds the oppos best mid to a low possession count and bruises a few of their ribs in the process.

[Zed]

I’d like to see him tried as a run with player. Much like Jack Steele was several years ago.
At the very least he will put a bit of doubt in some player’s minds
Won’t matter If his possessions count is low if he also holds the oppos best mid to a low possession count and bruises a few of their ribs in the process.

[Banger9798]

Too fumbly and gets lost in no-mans land far too often.

He has some attributes, but is a depth player and will have the new recruits go past him very quickly.

[shanegrambeau]

Looks hurried to me. Like Kent but more crash ‘n bash. Doesn’t have a lot of time to execute smoothly.

[B.M]

He hurts people?!

I’d rather he gets a kick!!!

[CQ SAINT]

I think if Long is going to make it, it will be as an outside mid/wing.
There's a nice mix of dash, strength and flair in his play that would make him very dangerous if he can just beat his instinct to get into the thick of the play and find dangerous spaces on the peripheral.
Id give him 6 games at Sandy on the wing
and see if he can transition his skill set to provide break away speed from stoppages, find space and break lines.

[WellardSaint]

He hurts people?!

I’d rather he gets a kick!!!

I get the feeling that umps are watching him too closely.
I like his physicality but maybe he needs to tone it down just a little, to avoid getting cited too often.
It's weird, there's so many other players that crash n bash but don't get targeted.
Lots of Tigers go in hard, lots of Cats, lots of Swans, but our guy is on the maggotts' radar for some reason

[Scollop]

I think if Long is going to make it, it will be as an outside mid/wing.
There's a nice mix of dash, strength and flair in his play that would make him very dangerous if he can just beat his instinct to get into the thick of the play and find dangerous spaces on the peripheral.
Id give him 6 games at Sandy on the wing
and see if he can transition his skill set to provide break away speed from stoppages, find space and break lines.

+1

I don't mind Ben on a half forward line but I'm with you. I'd love for him to play up the ground if he builds enough of a tank...

His disposal usually opens up scoring chains (that's why Ratts gave him the opportunity at half back). He generally makes very good decisions. His kicking is usually to his team mates advantage - check the stats on disposal efficiency against our best distributors.

For people who have posted that he is fumbly or that he wastes the footy, perhaps look and compare disposal efficiency of Hill in 2021 versus Long in 2020. https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_ ... 020&fid2=S

I also did one of Long in 2020 versus Sinclair 2021. Long has better DE

Interesting observations from others...

"limited footy IQ" ...yeah good one

Ponder this....As far as Ben not getting the footy a lot, I think most would agree that there's 2 ways of getting disposals. Firstly you try and win contested footy and secondly you get passed the ball - you provide an option for the team to go forward. That's what Brad Hill and Jack Sinclair do... right?

Why would Ratten decide to put Ben on a half back flank at the start of 2020? Does Ratten put players in that position who are poor decision makers and who are 'fumbly'?

I don't think so...In my opinion it's because Ratts identified that Long is one of our best distributors, and best decision makers and one of our most efficient distributors in terms of his kicking.

Let me also ask you this; How did that decision by Ratten play out for us in 2020? What were Ben's averages and what was his impact in games (check the link below).

In 2020 most people would agree that Ben Paton and Nick Coffield and Cal Wilkie had good years right? How do Ben's disposals stack up against his peers that year? https://www.saints.com.au/news/829262/b ... ers-emerge

I'm not sure if team harmony or some other factor is at play here. Maybe Long's team mates need to think 'long' and hard about passing the footy to the guy who is the best option (for the team) and not just passing it to their house mate.

Yes...I know he made some mistakes and he needs to change his style if he wants to get continuity into his games, but I think guys like Dangerfield and Cotchin and plenty of other AFL players have had to stop playing the way they grew up playing aussie rules. It's not easy but maturity and games experience helps

He's got upside and I'm sure he's the sort of player we need if (...fingers crossed) we make it to the last day in September

[Scollop]

Looks hurried to me. Like Kent but more crash ‘n bash. Doesn’t have a lot of time to execute smoothly.

maybe watch some of his games before you make the wrong assumptions and inaccurate generalisations

[B.M]

He’d be lucky to be in the best 30 players.

[The Fireman]

He hurts people?!

I’d rather he gets a kick!!!

When you have the opposition looking over their shoulder all the time the ball is easier to get I think it’s good to have at least one hard nut in the side

[wally]

So back when he was recruited does anyone remember what position he was supposed to fill? I think he was playing for Footscray reserves and expected to end up a bulldog

[skeptic]

So back when he was recruited does anyone remember what position he was supposed to fill? I think he was playing for Footscray reserves and expected to end up a bulldog

I believe it was HBF but am happy to be corrected