Why don’t we take the game on..?

[skeptic]

Half way through the third quarter… all of a sudden Sinclair led this sudden departure from what looked to be the stop, prop and kick to a contest game plan… when he started backing himself to beat his opponent and took the game on.

The result was that we kicked 4 goals in like 10min after I don’t think we managed 2 in a row in the first half.
Then Hayes started doing it…
Hill, Gresh, Higgins, Marshall all followed, started throwing their weight around and we almost won the match despite only playing decent footy for 1.5 quarters

So the question… why do we do the other thing. Take a mark, slow it down… kick long to a contest. Get the ball, short pass, slow it down, kick to a contest

Absolutely destroyed our first half and let Collingwood attack without fear of consequence early in the third.

Is it the players?

Fellas… please back yourself to beat your opponent, take the game on and run the ball

[samuraisaint]

We kicked four goals, but could have kicked another three which we missed from right in front.

I can't believe we still persevere with this game plan which seems to consist of chipping the ball around until we get a kick and a half from goal.

At which point the player holds the ball up thereby allowing the opposition to flood back, and eventually we kick the ball to a congested pack of players and a marking contest which we never win. In fact often times the opposition mark it and clear the ball out of the back line.

We look so much better when we take the game on, but I couldn't believe just how often we failed to hit up teammates, players dropping marks, and just not manning up.

We need serious changes in the side which goes to WA next week. There is no way several of the players in tonight's team are going to improve. Not performing in important showcase games like tonight really hurt the club.

No-one can excuse tonight. Us as members and supporters pay wages and keep the club afloat and I think a very strong message needs to be sent at selection next week.

[Teflon]

We looked better when we got some pace into the midfield
Sinclair and Gresham at least added some dash - it helps Sinclair also uses the footy well (Gresham still headless chook bombing away but gives you meters)
I think Leo is another Sinclair MUST play /get games into him
Inject NWM into that side also - fast track top skilled players/decision makes
Steele needs in/under help ….it ain’t Ross ….play Bytel again think future we ain’t winning a flag next 2 years anyway
Do not revert to Geary’s or Kent’s or Buttlers …think they’re not taking us further and are back up
Problem with the above is Ratten in last year Will cia h to save career ….not for saints future

[saintkev]

Out coached today. The team lacks a few hard, uncompromising, inspiring players. Today’s effort was abysmal. Too many overpaid plodders unwilling to play attacking football and to defend ruthlessly when necessary. Apart from Hayes there was a general reluctance to hit the ball hard and create avenues to goal by unselfish shepherding. Being continually outnumbered at the contest and a loping attitude to zoning off suggests selfish, mental lethargy.

[Teflon]

How many times today did I see multiple Saints players fly for the same ball ….no one stay down….and some Pie kid get an easy out the back goal ?
Is that no awareness of the game plan? Selfish players ??
Rumour was last year players went to Ratts complaining they’re confused on the game plan….tonight they looked confused

[B.M]

Current day Game Plans by successful teams is speed on the ball

We are playing like Hawthorn 2014 without the skill!!!

[The_Dud]

Constantly kicking it on top of Marshall and King’s head isn’t going to bode well for the longevity of their careers.

[saynta]

We kicked four goals, but could have kicked another three which we missed from right in front.

I can't believe we still persevere with this game plan which seems to consist of chipping the ball around until we get a kick and a half from goal.

At which point the player holds the ball up thereby allowing the opposition to flood back, and eventually we kick the ball to a congested pack of players and a marking contest which we never win. In fact often times the opposition mark it and clear the ball out of the back line.

We look so much better when we take the game on, but I couldn't believe just how often we failed to hit up teammates, players dropping marks, and just not manning up.

We need serious changes in the side which goes to WA next week. There is no way several of the players in tonight's team are going to improve. Not performing in important showcase games like tonight really hurt the club.

No-one can excuse tonight. Us as members and supporters pay wages and keep the club afloat and I think a very strong message needs to be sent at selection next week.

Can't fault your game comments.

But the AFL pay the players, not us.

[Vortex]

Did anyone think Jeremy Howe was playing for the Saints last night?

It's one thing to take the game on but our mechanism into F50 is still at Auskick level. I think we kicked it directly to Jeremy Howe -- arguably one of the best marking defenders in the AFL -- lace out either into his open palms or chest around 100 times

Our midfield is dumb and our forwards are even dumber.

Why Max didn't take Moore in one direction and RoMa take Howe in the other and a midfield kick it anywhere other than to Max or RoMa. Especially with Hayes turning it on and either marking everything that came his way or creating opportunities for swarming smalls.

It ain't rocket surgery.

I'm so frustrated how weak and dumb we are.

The definition of insanity .

This group are too weak and they are even dumber and just keep repeating the same mistakes and just don't learn.

[spert]

How many times today did I see multiple Saints players fly for the same ball ….no one stay down….and some Pie kid get an easy out the back goal ?
Is that no awareness of the game plan? Selfish players ??
Rumour was last year players went to Ratts complaining they’re confused on the game plan….tonight they looked confused

The Saints team last night played like a bunch of kids all chasing the ball in some passages of play. I can't believe that after making finals 2 years ago, instead of consolidating and improving in 2021, we went backwards and we now look like the bum has fallen out of the team. What the heck were Ratts and the football dept doing over summer- bugger all I would say.

[st.byron]

Watching Ratten's presser there's no mention of game plan. He's all about improving 'supply into the forward 50' by 8% and improving pressure numbers by 6%.
His comments about the game in general were pretty much all couched in terms of stats.
It did make me wonder if they have lost sight of the woods for the trees. A less kind way of saying that is he has head up his arse looking for answers.
Anyone with half a footy brain can see that stop, prop, sideways followed by a delayed entry into F50 to a big pack after the oppo.have all flooded back is rubbish. But with all the footy experience and nous on our coaching panel, we keep on with the same shyte over and over. WTF?

[Wayne42]

David King's thoughts on the Saints (No mention of Kent).

David King believes there’s a major flaw in St Kilda’s game plan that has been an issue for several years.
The Saints were beaten by 17 points on Friday night by a young Collingwood outfit in Round 1, a disappointing result after heading into the clash as favourites.

Collingwood dominated the game in patches, as did the Saints, but significant swings of momentum will no doubt concern Brett Ratten.After analysing the game,
King saw an issue that contributed heavily to the Magpies' run-ons on the Marvel Stadium turf.
“I’m confused with St Kilda, and we’ve been down this path with this plan before,” King told SEN’s Crunch Time.

For the first half, I didn’t think there was any great point of difference, any real dare.
“When their pressure is on, they’re a capable AFL team, but when their pressure drops fractionally, they get picked apart too easily.
“They have way too many players finish forward of a contest before the contest is won.

“We’ve talked about this for two or three years now, that’s a fraudulent model.
“You cannot finish forward of the contest… As soon as you allow the opposition to outnumber you at the contest, you’re in trouble.”

St Kilda conceded two runs of three goals on Friday night, at the start of the third quarter and in the last term as well, which ultimately cost them the game.
They lost the contested possession count (144-147) and clearances (36-38), which gave them little chance of putting the Pies to the sword.
Zac Jones, Paddy Ryder, Hunter Clark, Jack Billings and Nick Coffield were all missing on Friday, but King believes that’s no excuse for the fundamental errors.

“The first three games (of the season), the team that wins contested footy has won the game. The team that wins inside 50s has won the game. You leak defensively in bursts in patches, so don’t worry too much about defensive numbers,” he continued.
“It’s not about protecting your defensive 50 at the moment because that’s not a key indicator over the first three games, but supply and contest will always be the dominant indicators.
“St Kilda are nowhere near that, they’re nowhere near winning the contest, and they only lost it by a few (goals).

“But if they lose them heavily in patches, they bleed so easily when they do.
“That’s my concern with them.
“That might be harsh this early in the year, I know they’re down some manpower, but manpower doesn’t stop you from finishing forward of the contest.”

The Saints play Fremantle in Round 2 in what should provide a clear indication of where both teams sit amongst the competition.

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/03/19/ ... ldas-game/

[Teflon]

Watching Ratten's presser there's no mention of game plan. He's all about improving 'supply into the forward 50' by 8% and improving pressure numbers by 6%.
His comments about the game in general were pretty much all couched in terms of stats.
It did make me wonder if they have lost sight of the woods for the trees. A less kind way of saying that is he has head up his arse looking for answers.
Anyone with half a footy brain can see that stop, prop, sideways followed by a delayed entry into F50 to a big pack after the oppo.have all flooded back is rubbish. But with all the footy experience and nous on our coaching panel, we keep on with the same shyte over and over. WTF?

Well said
Stop prop bomb that’s the plan
FFS get forwards leading up at the ball and create space when we do that we look dangerous. We started to do this late last year - King leading up jumping at the footy…,no spoil is gonna get near him but we just seem to have gone backwards ??
Let’s face it we play some players in this side who NC are questionable at AFL level - Kent ? D mac? (tries hard but would be get a game at a top 8 club??$ Wood …patches at best and was the same at Nth
You watch them rush Gears , another C-B grader back in and probably drop Patton ….if that occurs we have massive group think issues at the club
I went to the Ess practice game and left dejected….couldn’t see the improvement
Last night only emphasised it
We are stagnant and waiting for injury prone older players in Ryder Jones Hannerbury to rescue us is not the future
I think we’ve cooked this rebuild
We look slow …midfield so one paced Roma tried hard but not a first ruck…
I think Steele looked flat last night….he needs some A grade help
Why not chase a Lipinski who was a noted great footy user at Dogs????
Was Treloars run outside more important than another inside slow mid in Crouch??? Free or not you surely have to look at your needs???
I’ve said it since end Lyon , Richo years and now….our system going into forward 50 is hit and hope ….it’s all left to brilliant solo efforts and not a team playing smart footy
IF Rath is a footy strategy genius either Ratten can’t get the message across OR that plan is wrong
Here is the irony….someone said we are “money ball” problem with that is if true, we have reject players with poor skills so the only game plan options open to us are to scramble forward and bomb to contest praying for a mark/crumb. Low % footy
I truly fear I’ll never see a flag I can’t believe we’ll stagnate and watch another friggin season go by
When will this club get ruthless?? Be taken seriously???
FFS stand up.

[st.byron]

Well said Teflon. Also in his presser Ratten mentioned the words “Geary” and “It’ll be good to get that experience back”.
Oh dear.
We’re seriously looking to a player well past his best days to lift us up? Same with Ryder and Hannebery. They are not the future. If……the jury is still out……but if last nights showing is indicative of where we’re going this year, then we have indeed stuffed this rebuild.

[saintsRrising]

Half way through the third quarter… all of a sudden Sinclair led this sudden departure from what looked to be the stop, prop and kick to a contest game plan… when he started backing himself to beat his opponent and took the game on.

The result was that we kicked 4 goals in like 10min after I don’t think we managed 2 in a row in the first half.
Then Hayes started doing it…
Hill, Gresh, Higgins, Marshall all followed, started throwing their weight around and we almost won the match despite only playing decent footy for 1.5 quarters

So the question… why do we do the other thing. Take a mark, slow it down… kick long to a contest. Get the ball, short pass, slow it down, kick to a contest

Absolutely destroyed our first half and let Collingwood attack without fear of consequence early in the third.

Is it the players?

Fellas… please back yourself to beat your opponent, take the game on and run the ball

One of Sinclair's best attributes is that he makes good disposal decisions quickly, and acts quickly to dispose to that option (or at least the best option as sometimes there is no really good option). This is how he always plays and is one of the reasons I rate him so highly.

This keeps the ball in motion, and in doing so it is much more likely that you can maintain a player in space to keep moving the ball on.


Membrey by contrast, who is overall an excellent player, biggest flaw is that he tends to stop and prop and not move the ball quickly. The result being that the opposition have time to close down any options. Kent is even worse.


Against the Pies for example Byrnes was given the ball in defence. He was well clear, and he had another team mate well clear upfield of him. Rather than move it on quickly to his free team mate he instead chose to take time to consider his options. Result being that an opponent had time to close and Byrnes then in rushing his disposal allowed the opponent to spoil his kick.

This stop and consider trait kills our momentum and allows the opposition to often win the ball back as we end up kicking to contests where the ball can be spoilt.


Good teams keep the ball in motion. Direct when it can be, but when not it will sooner or later often create a a better opportunity. Whereas stop and consider often just results in a 50/50 scenario.

[Impatient Sainter]

The reason the didn't take the game on is because we couldnt control or win first possession. Our defence was under the pump so much that most of the entire game was played in Collingwoods F50.

We had nearly as many inside 50's but either we scored or the ball came sling shotting out.

[SunnyErnie]

Half way through the third quarter… all of a sudden Sinclair led this sudden departure from what looked to be the stop, prop and kick to a contest game plan… when he started backing himself to beat his opponent and took the game on.

The result was that we kicked 4 goals in like 10min after I don’t think we managed 2 in a row in the first half.
Then Hayes started doing it…
Hill, Gresh, Higgins, Marshall all followed, started throwing their weight around and we almost won the match despite only playing decent footy for 1.5 quarters

So the question… why do we do the other thing. Take a mark, slow it down… kick long to a contest. Get the ball, short pass, slow it down, kick to a contest

Absolutely destroyed our first half and let Collingwood attack without fear of consequence early in the third.

Is it the players?

Fellas… please back yourself to beat your opponent, take the game on and run the ball

We don't take the game on because Ratts is a clone of Richo.

[bigred]

I think King doesn't lead very well.
Its either that or he has no freaking idea where they are going to send the ball.

Probably the latter.

Cant blame him really.

[bangaulegend]

IMO only We can't take the game on because our skill level is not good enough to execute any game plan as soon as we try & use the corridor we turn it over & get burnt hence they hug the boundary line & give the opposition time to counter any move we do

[Saintmatt]

IMO only We can't take the game on because our skill level is not good enough to execute any game plan as soon as we try & use the corridor we turn it over & get burnt hence they hug the boundary line & give the opposition time to counter any move we do

This. Everyone in the AFL industry knows that our skills have barely improved since the Cho era. That is why we don’t take it on. We simply can’t - don’t have to cattle to execute. Or maybe we do? But who’d know … up until we appointed Damien Carroll - we find out that Ben McGlyn had been doing development part time (2 days a week).

FMD