Things are never as

[nostalgicsaint]

Good as they seem or as bad as they seem.

Obviously we're not contending for the flag this year, although making the 8 gives us a chance, however unlikely.

The tone of this place imo should be a lot better given where we all expected to be at the start of the year. We have always been a 6 to 12 side with the list we have. At this stage it looks likely we will finish on the higher side of that.

A few thoughts.


1. We have found and developed some young potential stars in Pou, Windy, Owen's and Wang
2. As a club we have earned a lot of respect back from the footy world.
3. We now have standards and are building a high performance culture. This is the main reason we haven't just dropped our older players to 'play the kids'
4. Our list management will be supported by all the above, both in terms of retention and recruitment.

All of this has been achieved in a short window of time with significant challenges in terms of injuries- some self inflicted some unlucky.

Plenty to like if you're paying attention to where we're going.

[lewdogs]

I don't really get this whole thing about "we're not competing for a flag this year".

With the start we've had we should be aiming to make the finals and from there we should be aiming to win the flag. Obviously it's very unlikely but it's not impossible so why wouldn't we be aiming for that?

I think people are spooked by last year so every time we lose people assume we are going to capitulate like last year.

King coming back in will make a big difference. I think we have forgotten how good he is.

[Yorkeys]

2 wins from last 5 with form collectively and individually declining markedly as is ladder position. That seems bad. But if you tell me it's not so bad then OK.
No back up ruck, Captain down, turnovers up, silver lining in there somewhere.
Forwards unproductive, but that's not so bad, could be worse. Fair enough.

[Sanctorum]

Love your work nostalgicsaint, some great points!

Yes, the last three games were disappointing but in essence I believe that this team is playing much better than the 2022 version.

Adelaide should prove to be an abberation, but when you look at the stats of that game, it was the appalling conversion rate from the 49 entries into the forward 50 (21 shots on goal - 44%) that was the team's downfall because in doing so that put so much extra pressure on the St Kilda defence and conversely Adelaide achieved 66% from theirs!

[WellardSaint]

Love your work nostalgicsaint, some great points!

Yes, the last three games were disappointing but in essence I believe that this team is playing much better than the 2022 version.

Adelaide should prove to be an abberation, but when you look at the stats of that game, it was the appalling conversion rate from the 49 entries into the forward 50 (21 shots on goal - 44%) that was the team's downfall because in doing so that put so much extra pressure on the St Kilda defence and conversely Adelaide achieved 66% from theirs!

I suggest your selective memory is ignoring

1. the Crows' precision in disposals vs our insane kick-n-hope, and handballing to a guy facing 3 Crows
2. Crows winning more ball from clearance
3. All of our guys failing to pressure Crows, letting them pinpoint Walker and others in their F50
4. Our lads not absorbing a tackle so as to handball to the right option instead throwing blindly on hope

[Impatient Sainter]

Love your work nostalgicsaint, some great points!

Yes, the last three games were disappointing but in essence I believe that this team is playing much better than the 2022 version.

Adelaide should prove to be an abberation, but when you look at the stats of that game, it was the appalling conversion rate from the 49 entries into the forward 50 (21 shots on goal - 44%) that was the team's downfall because in doing so that put so much extra pressure on the St Kilda defence and conversely Adelaide achieved 66% from theirs!

I suggest your selective memory is ignoring

1. the Crows' precision in disposals vs our insane kick-n-hope, and handballing to a guy facing 3 Crows
2. Crows winning more ball from clearance
3. All of our guys failing to pressure Crows, letting them pinpoint Walker and others in their F50
4. Our lads not absorbing a tackle so as to handball to the right option instead throwing blindly on hope

You're right Wellard, but even as bad as we played, as Sanctorum has suggested if we converted our chances we are in the game. Our blokes simply looked overawed by the environment (again) and Adelaide got the jump and the rest is history. We take our chances we gain confidence but wd didnt and it's that lack of leadership in hostile games that has been a hurdle for the club since Lyon was last with us.

[WellardSaint]

One instance that was a glaring example of softness, was big tall Dougal approaching a toddler-sized Crow who was about to collect the ball- Dougal threw out a gangly arm like an orangutang reaching for a banana

[Vortex]

Good as they seem or as bad as they seem.

Obviously we're not contending for the flag this year, although making the 8 gives us a chance, however unlikely.

The tone of this place imo should be a lot better given where we all expected to be at the start of the year. We have always been a 6 to 12 side with the list we have. At this stage it looks likely we will finish on the higher side of that.

A few thoughts.


1. We have found and developed some young potential stars in Pou, Windy, Owen's and Wang
2. As a club we have earned a lot of respect back from the footy world.
3. We now have standards and are building a high performance culture. This is the main reason we haven't just dropped our older players to 'play the kids'
4. Our list management will be supported by all the above, both in terms of retention and recruitment.

All of this has been achieved in a short window of time with significant challenges in terms of injuries- some self inflicted some unlucky.

Plenty to like if you're paying attention to where we're going.

We have earnt jack respect. Crickey we have got so far to go before we can make that outlandish claim.

The kids you mention have got at least 2 to 3 years of footy before we know if they are capable of standing up in the closing minutes of a GF.

[Vortex]

Good as they seem or as bad as they seem.

Obviously we're not contending for the flag this year, although making the 8 gives us a chance, however unlikely.

The tone of this place imo should be a lot better given where we all expected to be at the start of the year. We have always been a 6 to 12 side with the list we have. At this stage it looks likely we will finish on the higher side of that.

A few thoughts.


1. We have found and developed some young potential stars in Pou, Windy, Owen's and Wang
2. As a club we have earned a lot of respect back from the footy world.
3. We now have standards and are building a high performance culture. This is the main reason we haven't just dropped our older players to 'play the kids'
4. Our list management will be supported by all the above, both in terms of retention and recruitment.

All of this has been achieved in a short window of time with significant challenges in terms of injuries- some self inflicted some unlucky.

Plenty to like if you're paying attention to where we're going.

We have earnt jack respect. Crickey we have got so far to go before we can make that outlandish claim.

The kids you mention have got at least 2 to 3 years of footy before we know if they are capable of standing up in the closing minutes of a GF.

[Yorkeys]

Logic is getting very ragged Vtox. You've gone from off with their heads after max of 2 years to 3. And suggesting a side that has been in the 8 all year hasn't earned respect. Get a grip your whining is aĺ over the place. You'd never make it to the last quarter, circuits would blow.

[cwrcyn]

Since the end of 2021 we'v added

Stocker
Caminiti
Owens
Wanganeen-Milera
Windhager
Owens

That's obviously a step in the right direction and will help us improve irrespective of who is coaching us.


We need more of the same in the next 18 months


We now have playing list with some balance in the age/talent demographic


However, we still have one glaring deficiency and that is truly elite midfield talent

[CURLY]

Love your work nostalgicsaint, some great points!

Yes, the last three games were disappointing but in essence I believe that this team is playing much better than the 2022 version.

Adelaide should prove to be an abberation, but when you look at the stats of that game, it was the appalling conversion rate from the 49 entries into the forward 50 (21 shots on goal - 44%) that was the team's downfall because in doing so that put so much extra pressure on the St Kilda defence and conversely Adelaide achieved 66% from theirs!

I suggest your selective memory is ignoring

1. the Crows' precision in disposals vs our insane kick-n-hope, and handballing to a guy facing 3 Crows
2. Crows winning more ball from clearance
3. All of our guys failing to pressure Crows, letting them pinpoint Walker and others in their F50
4. Our lads not absorbing a tackle so as to handball to the right option instead throwing blindly on hope

Crows at home with no best 22 out and basically injury free all season.

StKilda missing their most important player all season and a horrendous injury card all season.

iT WAS ALWAYS GOING TO CATCH UP WITH US.

[samuraisaint]

Since the end of 2021 we'v added

Stocker
Caminiti
Owens
Wanganeen-Milera
Windhager
Owens

That's obviously a step in the right direction and will help us improve irrespective of who is coaching us.


We need more of the same in the next 18 months


We now have playing list with some balance in the age/talent demographic


However, we still have one glaring deficiency and that is truly elite midfield talent

And Matteas! The youngest of the lot!

[nostalgicsaint]

Didn't say we were feared vortex.

Just that we have earned back a lot of respect.

Last year we had teams resting players against us- this year we have had teams talking about how tough it is to play against us.

[Scollop]

3. We now have standards and are building a high performance culture. This is the main reason we haven't just dropped our older players to 'play the kids'

I like your post and I agree the club has done a lot right since the debacle of the contract extension for the senior coach midway through 2022, followed by the sacking not long afterwards, however...

A high performance culture can still have a match committee and coaches favouring a senior player over a younger player to the detriment of the team.

When Bytel got 39 at Sandringham about 4-5 weeks ago his reward for his high level of performance was being made the sub for 3 weeks (and meanwhile you had senior players not in very good form)

I think the use of young guys like Windhager and Bytel as subs is wrong. Especially if they don't mix it up and make Crouch or Seb Ross a sub as well.

The selection committee have made some mistakes which have possibly cost us 4 points along the way

[samuraisaint]

I see this season as a bit like 1991, 2004, or 2020, where we improve enough to play finals, but might have a slump at some point, particularly as this is going to be a very long season with 23 home and away matches.

We have played over a third of the season without our forward line, and we have also missed a number of our midfielders and a defender for extended periods as well.

I don't think RL originally planned for a development year but that is what he got, but due to a perhaps fruitful honeymoon period we should also play finals which is a win/win.

Personally, I would like to see more of Bytel in the starting lineup and Windhager back in the senior side, but I think that will happen against the Hawks next week to be honest.

This is an important game, because we have had the wood on the Giants these past three years, who have been poor defensively, which is where I think we can punish them. I don't think it will all be our way this afternoon, but I would like to see us play four quarters, kick the ton, and go into next week with form.

[Teflon]

Good as they seem or as bad as they seem.

Obviously we're not contending for the flag this year, although making the 8 gives us a chance, however unlikely.

The tone of this place imo should be a lot better given where we all expected to be at the start of the year. We have always been a 6 to 12 side with the list we have. At this stage it looks likely we will finish on the higher side of that.

A few thoughts.


1. We have found and developed some young potential stars in Pou, Windy, Owen's and Wang
2. As a club we have earned a lot of respect back from the footy world.
3. We now have standards and are building a high performance culture. This is the main reason we haven't just dropped our older players to 'play the kids'
4. Our list management will be supported by all the above, both in terms of retention and recruitment.

All of this has been achieved in a short window of time with significant challenges in terms of injuries- some self inflicted some unlucky.

Plenty to like if you're paying attention to where we're going.

Good post
It’s a longer term post many won’t get but that’s where we are
Are we winning the flag this year?? Absolutely not anyone suggesting “you make the 8..” is utter rot
We have holes - midfield is not top notch….sorry but thems fact
Lyon absolutely planned to have a development year - the board gave him 4 years cause the FINALLY stopped drinking Brett’s cool aid that we were in the window (took way to long but that’s another thread)
They know now as does Lyon - what do you think was said on that leaked coach box audio???? I bet it was “I can’t win a flag with this current lot…”
Why no play Windhager Bytel et al then??
I think Lyon (who has history) likes to leave a winning side
I also think he might giving senior players a chance to save career
Get moving Tim Seb Butler …tick tock

[Saintmike65]

Since the end of 2021 we'v added

Stocker
Caminiti
Owens
Wanganeen-Milera
Windhager
Owens

That's obviously a step in the right direction and will help us improve irrespective of who is coaching us.


We need more of the same in the next 18 months


We now have playing list with some balance in the age/talent demographic


However, we still have one glaring deficiency and that is truly elite midfield talent

Agree, ordinary drafting has hurt us big time apart from the last 2 drafts.
To think we should have a starting midfield of Bont, Petracca & Miller…if only we had decent recruiting department in the past decade!