Reserves - Sandringham

[samuraisaint]

Can we once and for all, finish this completely dysfunctional alliance with Sandringham.
It is an absolute waste of money, time and careers, and is an inhibitor of any type of progression.
There is no improvement or development happening there and the whole alignment is an absolute waste of resources.

[cwrcyn]

Agree 100%

[Saintmike65]

I plan on speaking to the prez about this next time he’s at training..it’s a massive bugbear of mine & the alignment with Casey was similar.
Melbourne have made it work with both partners, which is an indictment against the St. Kilda footy club!

[shanegrambeau]

How about Hampton Rovers?

4th Black Rock Sea Scouts?


Edit
Serious question
Hawthorn did OK with Box Hill??

[older saint]

How about Hampton Rovers?

4th Black Rock Sea Scouts?


Edit
Serious question
Hawthorn did OK with Box Hill??

They won games int he VFL but how did they track on player development? I would have to go back and check but most of Hawthorn's improvement has been early draft picks - Day, Lewis and mature age recruits - Newcombe.
That said i have believed for years we need our own team and the evidence of what Richmond and WB were able to achieve in terms of structure and development are the examples.

[Life Long Saint]

I think part of it is a mindset thing.
Players are going back and playing for a team called the Sandringham Zebras that wear black and yellow striped jumpers (let's just skip over the fact that zebras are black and white).
If anything they should be playing for the Sandringham Saints wearing the same, or something very close to the same jumper.
Everything about the alignment should scream St Kilda Football Club.

No other team does like we do anymore.
Casey Demons, Box Hill Hawks...Every other team has their own team in the VFL.

[skeptic]

Melbourne have made it work with both partners, which is an indictment against the St. Kilda footy club!

To me right there that’s the issue.

There’s a mechanical issue here that we’re not addressing. Until we do, it will always be a poor show IMO

[shanegrambeau]

I love the Sandy colours. Yellow and Black vertical stripes and the blue collar. Reminds me of my (mostly anxiety ridden youth!) lol
And mates used to wear them to school and the games down there were great.
I wonder if the move to Moorabbin was somewhat justified- among many other things - that we would be somewhat closer to Sandy and that some kind of ‘duty of care’ is somewhat implied?
Of course these undertakings don’t apply to players and coaches who can be sacked unceremoniously on a whim. But an entire footy club? With a history. Yes, I know I think Sandy was Melbourne’s affiliate for a while, when Melbourne were diabolical.

[Saint2]

Looking at quite a few games of Sandy's this year, live and on streaming, and the standard of performance is really unacceptable compared to many other clubs. The list is very ordinary, and no evidence of good coaching.. and the Saints listed players are really hit and miss with form. We should really have a Saints badged team, but I think there's a lot of historic resistance within the club. I vaguely remember back when Watters was coach, he tried to get a development system happening through Sandy with an eye on rebuilding the list, but got howled down and got the flick, though it was one of the few times in the long time I have followed the club, that I saw any plan emerge, and nothing much since.

[cwrcyn]

I've been watching Sandy games. What I see from other VFL teams is system. At Sandy there is none. Some of the players are just terrible, not even VFL level. How can that be helpful? Each week it's a rabble.

Have our recent VFL coaches simply been not up to the task.? I think it's a valid question. Just because you're in the system, or have been for a few years, doesn't mean you know what you're doing.

The whole thing needs a massive overhaul.

How can Isaac Keeler develop his forward craft when there is hopeless ball movement and players up the field with atrocious foot skills?

How will Olli Hotton develop as a forward/mid in an environment with zero system?

There is no game plane at Sandy, and it certainly bears no resemblance to the game plan at AFL level. There MUST be some consistency between them for players to prepare themselves for senior football under Ross Lyon.

[shanegrambeau]

Those two posts above, by Saint2 and cwc…., are on point and Saints2 point about Watters having a real crack at improving things is welcome too. The Scott Watters legacy isn’t nuanced at all, as far as I can tell. Time for some nuance. But that’s another story.

I think we will lose Highmore at seasons end. Mores the pity. A good player going nowhere. And others too.

Look, this must be blazingly obvious to the honchos at Linton st. And they must have plans.

[Sanctorum]

I tend to think that it's a case of 'beggars can't be choosers' as it has been mentioned previously that St Kilda simply don't have the financial resources to field a VFL stand alone team based at Linton Street.

The partnership with Sandringham certainly grates when you see them wearing ostensibly Hawthorn jumpers and the fact that the majority of the players are well below AFL standard means it is unlikely players from St Kilda are going to derive much benefit in terms of improving their skills, because the standard of football is nowhere near the level required in the AFL.

Maybe the club should be seeking a big financial benefactor to make this happen, I wonder if former club player and president Lindsay Fox could be persuaded to back the "Linfox Saints" in the VFL???

They could even rename our home ground "Linfox Stadium" in recognition of the Fox family's strong links to St Kilda FC since the 1950s.

Over to you Andrew.........

[CQ SAINT]

It seems fairly clear to me that the St.Kilda FC should register the Bayside Saints to join the VFL and they should play out of Moorabbin.
We should also attempt to take over the Sandringham Dragons and call them the Bayside Saints too. It's a no brainer.

[CQ SAINT]

What happens to Sandringham after that is Sandringham's concern.

We have propped up Frankston football long enough, time to get out oftheir completely and focus on ending the alignment with Sandy and going alone to develop and grow our own local player catchment area, sponsorship and supporter following.

[CQ SAINT]

What happens to Sandringham after that is Sandringham's concern.

We have propped up Frankston football long enough, time to get out oftheir completely and focus on ending the alignment with Sandy and going alone to develop and grow our own local player catchment area, sponsorship and supporter following.

[Impatient Sainter]

Can we once and for all, finish this completely dysfunctional alliance with Sandringham.
It is an absolute waste of money, time and careers, and is an inhibitor of any type of progression.
There is no improvement or development happening there and the whole alignment is an absolute waste of resources.

Ive been watching the VFL games all year and I initially thought it was the Saints list issue as much as Sandringham. But after seeing the non listed players the other VFL clubs I agree with the OP. The club needs to find a way to go it alone and dump Sandringham. Put our resources into getting the right players into complimenting our list needs.

The alignment has been a disaster from the get go, they havent played finals in the entire time of the affiliation. It has to be the worst possible affiliation for player development its digraceful. I know Gerry Ryan was a big push to continue the alignment but its time the club grew some balls and gave Sandringham the push!

[shanegrambeau]

Wait
Devils advocate if I may.

What is the difference between having a stand alone reserves team and a team called Sandy if St Kilda ultimately runs the joint by weight of financial input and governance?

[StPeter]

I think a major contributing factor to Sandringham's poor performances has been our long injury list which has affected the Sandringham side even more than the Saints side.

On top of this, a large number of St Kilda Sunday games has meant additional players have been held out as emergencies further depleting available Saints players for Sandringham.

I am sure a much larger number of the Saints players were expected to play for Sandy at the start of the season.

[Life Long Saint]

Wait
Devils advocate if I may.

What is the difference between having a stand alone reserves team and a team called Sandy if St Kilda ultimately runs the joint by weight of financial input and governance?

That's a fair question, but we need to look and feel like St Kilda when the players play there.
Everything about that club needs to be controlled by St Kilda.
Colours, song, nickname, the home ground, the works.
We need be the Saints. We need to wear red, white, and black. We need to play at Moorabbin, and the entire VFL team need to train with the seniors at least twice a week.

It needs to be, for all intents and purposes, at St Kilda reserves team.

It doesn't feel like that now.

[Bernard Shakey]

Makes absolutely no difference.
We run Sandy and they are run from Linton Street.
Doesn't matter if they are called Zebras or Saints they are still run by the St Kilda Football Club.

[B.M]

Sandringham is not the problem

We are the problem

If anything they should get rid of us!

[Life Long Saint]

The alignment is clarly not producing the right results.
It didn't work with Casey either.

If we keep doing what we are doing now, nothing will improve.
Something has to change.

[shanegrambeau]

Ever thought that Sandy might go under if it were not for this support?

[Life Long Saint]

Ever thought that Sandy might go under if it were not for this support?

Yes.
Which is why we have the whip hand.
We can dictate the terms.
No other team in the AFL has the type of arrangement with an affiliated club that we have.
Box Hill Hawks (Hawthorn jumpers) and Casey Demons (Melbourne Jumpers) are the only two clubs with similar arrangements. Everyone else has a stand alone VFL team.
Every season we wait, the further behind we will be in player development.

If they do end the alignment, they wouldn't be the first VFA/VFL team to go under, and I am guessing they won't be the last.
Sunshine, Yarraville, Mordialloc, Caulfield, Brunswick, Dandenong, Camberwell, Geelong West, Oakleigh, and Prahran all no longer exist. And there are many more like them.

Then again Preston, Williamstown, Port Melbourne, Coburg, Werribee, and Frankston are all kicking along, some only just!

[B.M]

I don’t think it would make any difference at all!

Sandy is all about development now, not even sure they care about results.

It basically is StK reserves

StK Coaches, StK Game Plan, StK players get priority

Only thing is StK don’t bank roll the supplementary players. If we had a Stand Alone Reserves team it would cost a further 500k per year

Extra coaches, extra fitness staff, extra players, extra medical costs, extra resources

Our alignment is there to alleviate cost

At the moment we have 10-12 fit players playing VFL

Where do you think we’d get the other 10-12 players from to field a team?!