AFL 2023: Nailing trades can turn St Kilda into a contender

[D.B.Cooper]

From HS

AFL 2023: Nailing trades can turn St Kilda into a contender
Despite bowing out of finals, St Kilda has a core of young stars to build a premiership team around. Can trade guru Stephen Silvagni find the players to complete the puzzle?

'I thought we had more in us than that'
AFL: Ross Lyon reflected on the Saints season and loss in the finals to GWS, speaking about earning the right to progress more in the final.
AFL

Ross Lyon may have begun stocking his shopping trolley before the ball was even bounced on St Kilda’s season-ending elimination final loss on Saturday.

Perhaps the most consequential moment for St Kilda’s future came an hour before the game against GWS Giants kicked off, when it began leaking out that Fremantle’s Liam Henry had chosen Moorabbin as his new home and wants a trade to St Kilda.

During the actual game on Saturday Lyon’s midfield issues were stark – the Giants had star power in Josh Kelly and Tom Green and the Saints had Jack Steele and that was about it.

Even Lyon said his skipper played a “lone hand” with a typically herculean 38 disposals.

The coach knows his team needs A-grade midfield support to jump from finalists to contenders and he joked post-match that he won’t find it in Woolies, as cost of living even impacts the trade market this off-season.

“I can’t head to Woolworths in Glen Huntly Rd and buy one, I know that. They don’t have a half-priced special,” Lyon said in perfect Rossism tone.

So, how do the Saints make that leap?

Lyon earmarked 2023 breakthrough youngsters such as Mattaes Phillipou, Mitch Owens, Anthony Caminiti, Marcus Windhager and Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera as the core his club “just have to build around”.

Nailing a couple of drafts and slingshotting into contention is doable.

The Power nailed the 2018 draft by snaring Zak Butters, Connor Rozee, and to a lesser extent, Xavier Duursma, all at once.

And around them, they have both traded in and drafted – bringing in the likes of Jason Horne-Francis, Ryan Burton, Jeremy Finlayson, Willie Rioli, Aliir Aliir and drafting Todd Marshall, Dan Houston and Willem Drew.

If the Saints are right that they have a strong cohort of youngsters that can take them somewhere, they won’t be back picking early in the draft any time soon.

So they must make the most of smart trades.

Henry, a strong runner who could have at least gone with the Giants’ leg speed on Saturday, is a shrewd start.

Lyon knows his side needs top-level midfield support and another goalkicker.

Perhaps Caminiti and Owens will cover the goalkicking around Max King, but finding that star onballer will keep the list team of Stephen Silvagni and Graeme Allen up at night.

And the Saints won’t rush for a quick fix.

“There are mechanisms. There is trade, draft, free agency,” Lyon said.

“We will explore those things but when I walked in, it was never going to be a one-year build. We have to build it out over a period of time.”

The good news is the kids are hungry.

While Phillipou, Caminiti and Owens were quiet on Saturday, Wanganeen-Milera and Cooper Sharman were outstanding.

Phillipou is a workhorse and Owens is a future star and they are part of a young group of Saints who’s workrate equals their talent.

All-Australian Jack Sinclair came back from his summer break last year marvelling at the work the junior Saints had done.

“Even last year they sort of set the scene in terms of improving every week, so when us older boys got back they were hitting PBs on the running track or in the gym and as an older guy, that made me want to get better,” he said.

“I think that is the best thing for us. We just want to get better every day and every week and every year not matter how old you are.

“That is being led by the young guys, but I think our senior guys have really played their role.”

The young Saints will get to work over summer and it will be up to the off-field team of Silvagni, Allen and Lyon to get shopping and find some of those bargains.

A-GRADE LOOKS INTO B-GRADE OPPORTUNITIES

Saints fans will be closing their eyes over coming weeks and seeing it over and over.

The forward line players leaping and crashing into each other, the dropped marks and the missed chances up forward.

It has been a tale of the season for St Kilda, which has moved the ball well generally but often fallen over when looking for targets inside 50.

It was one point of improvement Sinclair pointed out, while saying finals is now a “minimum standard” for his club.

And it was an issue, along with conceding scores from stoppages, that Lyon brought up to his troops in a lengthy post-match meeting on Saturday.

“Obviously, some efficiency going inside-50, that sometimes takes time,” Sinclair said.

“That takes time to build. It doesn’t happen straight away but with some guys in front of the footy it can be tough.”

So often on Saturday, the Giants would sweep forward and find a forward in space or a clear one-on-one option, instead of multiple forwards crowding each other like at the other end.

The Giants, particularly Brent Daniels, were willing to cut angles and get creative to find targets, thanks to good connection with their forwards.

St Kilda went inside 50 twice more than GWS on Saturday but was never in the game after the 15-minute mark of the second quarter.

Much of the issues would be fixed if King and Tim Membrey managed full seasons, while young forwards Owens, Caminiti and Phillipou can only improve.

“Even when we are coming and having a go, we were getting A-grade looks that become B-grade opportunities,” Lyon said.

Even after the loss, the Saints will hit another summer of improvement with some momentum, after reaching finals and drawing over 68,000 fans to the MCG, only the second time St Kilda has played in front of that many since the end of 2017.

The loyalty of the St Kilda fan base shone through, even as the club remained on 22 finals wins, the same Joel Selwood managed in 109 fewer seasons.

[B.M]

s*** article

Said nothing

[bakes]

Stop trying to kill any ounce of positivity we have left.

[Yorkeys]

I like the comparison with Selwood.
I guess HS ran out of room to point out Selwood is finished as a player and the St Kilda Football Club just marches on.
Means Selwood has zero chance of playing in another final. We have some. Big shout out to Joel. What a nonsense fallacious comparison even for the HS.
Mark Robinson has had more s*** television appearances and articles than Selwood has had hot dinners. Robbo you record breaker and Selwoodophile, extend that record man!

[Otiman]

Trading picks for players didn't work for us 2018-2022 and it won't work now. The Hill and Crouch trades were short term options.

We need to go to the draft, trade out players for picks, and put out soft cap into player development.

[nostalgicsaint]

Stop trying to kill any ounce of positivity we have left.

Agree with this..thought it was a great article.

Measured, points out room for improvement and owns it wont be overnight.

[SaintPav]

I like the comparison with Selwood.
I guess HS ran out of room to point out Selwood is finished as a player and the St Kilda Football Club just marches on.
Means Selwood has zero chance of playing in another final. We have some. Big shout out to Joel. What a nonsense fallacious comparison even for the HS.
Mark Robinson has had more s*** television appearances and articles than Selwood has had hot dinners. Robbo you record breaker and Selwoodophile, extend that record man!

That stat is only used against St Kilda.

It also applies to other teams like the Bulldogs.

[SaintPav]

Trading picks for players didn't work for us 2018-2022 and it won't work now. The Hill and Crouch trades were short term options.

We need to go to the draft, trade out players for picks, and put out soft cap into player development.

We go Crouch through free agency.

We gave up too much for Hill. Probably should have gone to the draft and throwing in Acres has turned out to be ridiculous.

[Otiman]

Don't think I'd have Acres in our side. He epitomises our issues with long bombs to opposition inside 50.

[Scollop]

Don't think I'd have Acres in our side. He epitomises our issues with long bombs to opposition inside 50.

What rubbish. Did you miss the Elimination Final against Sydney?

His size and his running ability and work rate and contested ball winning abilities are made for finals.
Easily one of Carlton's best players and there'd be clubs lining up for his services.

Acres was constantly in and out of the side when he played for St Kilda. Acres was developing under a rubbish football department that thought Jack Steele should play at Sandringham, and that Jack Billings was a midfielder.

We didn't want Bontempelli (who is about to become a Brownlow medalist) we didn't want Petracca, we recruited Nathan Brown to play as Full Back when he was struggling to get a game with Collingwood's seniors.

St Kilda chose Alan Richardson over Mark 'Choco' Williams.

If Alan Richardson had any idea, and if our footy admin wasn't incompetent, he'd still be wearing our colours.

[silverhalo]

Don't think I'd have Acres in our side. He epitomises our issues with long bombs to opposition inside 50.

What rubbish. Did you miss the Elimination Final against Sydney?

His size and his running ability and work rate and contested ball winning abilities are made for finals.
Easily one of Carlton's best players and there'd be clubs lining up for his services.

Acres was constantly in and out of the side when he played for St Kilda. Acres was developing under a rubbish football department that thought Jack Steele should play at Sandringham, and that Jack Billings was a midfielder.

We didn't want Bontempelli (who is about to become a Brownlow medalist) we didn't want Petracca, we recruited Nathan Brown to play as Full Back when he was struggling to get a game with Collingwood's seniors.

St Kilda chose Alan Richardson over Mark 'Choco' Williams.

If Alan Richardson had any idea, and if our footy admin wasn't incompetent, he'd still be wearing our colours.

Don't forget that Acres has a lot of recurring soft tissue injuries so can't be critical of the club for letting him go - could never get the best out of him because he wasn't on the ground often enough. Had a good run with injuries this year luckily for Carlton.

[silverhalo]

Ross currently conducting exit interviews - all players will know within 48 hours whether they are going or staying

[magnifisaint]

Acres has terrible disposal. We already have plenty of them.

[CURLY]

Don't think I'd have Acres in our side. He epitomises our issues with long bombs to opposition inside 50.

What rubbish. Did you miss the Elimination Final against Sydney?

His size and his running ability and work rate and contested ball winning abilities are made for finals.
Easily one of Carlton's best players and there'd be clubs lining up for his services.

Acres was constantly in and out of the side when he played for St Kilda. Acres was developing under a rubbish football department that thought Jack Steele should play at Sandringham, and that Jack Billings was a midfielder.

We didn't want Bontempelli (who is about to become a Brownlow medalist) we didn't want Petracca, we recruited Nathan Brown to play as Full Back when he was struggling to get a game with Collingwood's seniors.

St Kilda chose Alan Richardson over Mark 'Choco' Williams.

If Alan Richardson had any idea, and if our footy admin wasn't incompetent, he'd still be wearing our colours.

If you can find one Mock draft or list pre draft that had Bont in front of Billings I will mail you $100

[Scollop]

Don't think I'd have Acres in our side. He epitomises our issues with long bombs to opposition inside 50.

What rubbish. Did you miss the Elimination Final against Sydney?

His size and his running ability and work rate and contested ball winning abilities are made for finals.
Easily one of Carlton's best players and there'd be clubs lining up for his services.

Acres was constantly in and out of the side when he played for St Kilda. Acres was developing under a rubbish football department that thought Jack Steele should play at Sandringham, and that Jack Billings was a midfielder.

We didn't want Bontempelli (who is about to become a Brownlow medalist) we didn't want Petracca, we recruited Nathan Brown to play as Full Back when he was struggling to get a game with Collingwood's seniors.

St Kilda chose Alan Richardson over Mark 'Choco' Williams.

If Alan Richardson had any idea, and if our footy admin wasn't incompetent, he'd still be wearing our colours.

If you can find one Mock draft or list pre draft that had Bont in front of Billings I will mail you $100

Hang on. We don't employ Shifter Sheahan or the media or other club's recruiters.

If everyone went with the 'popular' opinion on everything there'd be no innovation or progress...mock draft..Good one CURLY. If everyone in the world thought like you we'd all still think the Earth was flat.

We had the upper hand on two fronts. Firstly, this was a young draftee that was related to one of our players. How did St Kilda FC take advantage of that upper hand? How did we utilise Nick Dal Santo to gain access to the kid's family? And to Marcus himself.

Secondly, How did we explore the individual? What process was used to compare Billings versus Marcus? Was it just as you say... looking at how other people rated them ...and believing them!!!

Hey...West Coast...what do you think of Chris Judd? Nah ..he's no good! Righto. Thank you for your honesty.

[nostalgicsaint]

Think it's a simple point really.

You're judging the recruiting in hindsight. No one is saying our recruiters have been amazing but it was a reasonable call to take Billings ahead of Bont.

[Scollop]

Think it's a simple point really.

You're judging the recruiting in hindsight. No one is saying our recruiters have been amazing but it was a reasonable call to take Billings ahead of Bont.

Think alright.

Remind me who was in charge of recruiting in 2013 and 2014

Same incompetent person who decided that McCartin was the best player in the draft the following year

The evidence right now in 2023 points to us having a very very good recruiting team. Let's hope our coach and footy department back them in

[CURLY]

Don't think I'd have Acres in our side. He epitomises our issues with long bombs to opposition inside 50.

What rubbish. Did you miss the Elimination Final against Sydney?

His size and his running ability and work rate and contested ball winning abilities are made for finals.
Easily one of Carlton's best players and there'd be clubs lining up for his services.

Acres was constantly in and out of the side when he played for St Kilda. Acres was developing under a rubbish football department that thought Jack Steele should play at Sandringham, and that Jack Billings was a midfielder.

We didn't want Bontempelli (who is about to become a Brownlow medalist) we didn't want Petracca, we recruited Nathan Brown to play as Full Back when he was struggling to get a game with Collingwood's seniors.

St Kilda chose Alan Richardson over Mark 'Choco' Williams.

If Alan Richardson had any idea, and if our footy admin wasn't incompetent, he'd still be wearing our colours.

If you can find one Mock draft or list pre draft that had Bont in front of Billings I will mail you $100

Hang on. We don't employ Shifter Sheahan or the media or other club's recruiters.

If everyone went with the 'popular' opinion on everything there'd be no innovation or progress...mock draft..Good one CURLY. If everyone in the world thought like you we'd all still think the Earth was flat.

We had the upper hand on two fronts. Firstly, this was a young draftee that was related to one of our players. How did St Kilda FC take advantage of that upper hand? How did we utilise Nick Dal Santo to gain access to the kid's family? And to Marcus himself.

Secondly, How did we explore the individual? What process was used to compare Billings versus Marcus? Was it just as you say... looking at how other people rated them ...and believing them!!!

Hey...West Coast...what do you think of Chris Judd? Nah ..he's no good! Righto. Thank you for your honesty.

Don’t be obtuse. The mock drafts by the likes of Twoemy and Co come from speaking to club recruiters talent scouts and of course personal choice.

Billings was a stand out and clear 2-3.

[Scollop]

Club recruiters reveal their true intentions to Twomey and co. prior to the National Draft

That's gold CURLY

[whiskers3614]

Not in relation to Billings , but in a more general sense I wonder how they get so many players so wrong after so much testing.
For example did Dunstan's speed and poor disposal just happen because we are St Kilda?
What about Gresham's deficiencies, or are we the eternal optimists who see the faults but feel we can improve them?

[Vortex]

Trading picks for players didn't work for us 2018-2022 and it won't work now. The Hill and Crouch trades were short term options.

We need to go to the draft, trade out players for picks, and put out soft cap into player development.

They were good trades, just the timing was premature, they are the types of players we need to bring in somewhere over the next 2 to 3 years when the list is only in need of some spit N polish.

By the time we possibly look like we have a list that can contend they will be just about ready to retire.

[B.M]

Which ones were poor?

Kent - average player - gave up FA
Hannebery- star player, injury riddled, gave up nothing except $$$

Hill - paid too much - but he has not been a bust
Howard - a regular KPD
Ryder - played ok - although stifled Marshall who was better without Ryder
Butler - has been a regular- twice leading goalkicker as a small forward - for a pick in the 70s - bargain
Higgins - has had plenty of big games - didn’t give up a lot
Cordy - gave up nothing for a back up
Wood - outstanding pick up

The rest of the matures were just back up options
Frawley, Campbell etc

[The G Train Legacy]

Think it's a simple point really.

You're judging the recruiting in hindsight. No one is saying our recruiters have been amazing but it was a reasonable call to take Billings ahead of Bont.

Think alright.

Remind me who was in charge of recruiting in 2013 and 2014

Same incompetent person who decided that McCartin was the best player in the draft the following year

The evidence right now in 2023 points to us having a very very good recruiting team. Let's hope our coach and footy department back them in

McCartin was one of the best player in that draft. Concussion was the sole reason for his travails. He missed 4 years of Footy, after barely getting on the park with us. Sydney recruit him and he immediately became one of the best CHB in the competition, after 4 years out of the game! Extraordinary and there's a reason for that. He was a bloody good player. Best reader of the ball in flight I've seen at the Saints since Plugger. If Max read the flight like Paddy, he'd already be having close to 100 goal seasons.

If concussion hadn't finally got him, he may have even moved forward post Buddy and really showed why he was a No.1.

[Scollop]

Different argument

I didn't say McCartin couldn't play

I said he clearly wasn't the best player in his draft year. How do you rate a player Number 1 when he doesn't even get out on the park consistently to perform in the U18's. Red flags everywhere. McCartin was also injured during the draft combine.

....and to mention Plugger and Buddy Franklin in the same breath....I suppose that's fine, you can have an opinion on that ....even though millions of people will disagree with you.

[CURLY]

Club recruiters reveal their true intentions to Twomey and co. prior to the National Draft

That's gold CURLY

Are you a complete fool or just trying to look ridiculous.