Jake Bachelor

[B.M]

Is it time for a change?

Sandy record is deplorable- somethings not in his control

I’d love to see Dal moved into the men’s program

To develop

[Vortex]

The whole Sandy relationship needs to be overhauled.

Doesn't matter who the coach is, without the same resources as the rich clubs it will always be impossible to build the same development programs they have and subsequently compete with them in the final 2 weeks of the season.

The problem is cash, we never have enough.

[bobmurray]

I think the club has recognised the Zebras alliance needs work.

St Kilda Football Club will deepen its affiliation with Sandringham Football Club moving into Season 2024 and beyond, introducing various initiatives to bring the two organisations closer together.
Not sure if it'll help development or get Sandy on the winners list but i'd say it's been part of the discussions post the year of exploration.

https://www.saints.com.au/news/1457123/ ... -selection

[cwrcyn]

Watching Sandy is just excruciating. Appalling style of play. Basically a rabble.

You'd have to question what the hell is going on.

[B.M]

How does the alignment differ atm

Sandy is run onfield by StKilda coaches - Bachelor is employed by StK

StK players get full priority in selection and positional

I simply don’t think the alignment is the problem - it’s no different to Box Hill, Casey etc… we just look for excuses that aren’t actually there.

To me
It was the influence of StK that hurt. Playing for the saints reasons and not to win

The OP has challenged the ability of the coach. I think he’s not up to it!

[Vortex]

Headlining the new initiatives is a commitment by St Kilda to use one of its rookie list places to draft a Sandringham player, commencing next year....this is the headline of the new "initiative" I hope we reserve the option to decline if there are no deserving selections.

Sandringham’s coaching staff will be able to learn from Saints development coach/Zebras senior coach Jake Batchelor...don't they already do this?

As part of each clubs’ commitment to closer align, St Kilda will appoint a VFL Liaison Officer to streamline the processes and overlap associated, while Sandringham has appointed a Recruiting Manager for next season....not even sure what this means other than some unknown "process" is being streamlined by adding to the wages bill by employing somebody to streamline something and Sandy have employed a recruiting manager which I'm unsure how thst helps our recruiting other than it might provide a very long and indirect path to a potential rookie.

Seems a bit amateur hour to me and screams low budget.

[bobmurray]

The way i see Sandy is their squad is made up of Saints listed players that don't make the Saints match day squad and Sandy listed players that make up the rest of the numbers.
These are the players that Batchelor coaches.

When the Saints squad has multiple players out injured, which it almost always does then that affects the team that Sandy puts on the park. In this scenario Sandy has to get top up players
from elsewhere so that they can field a team because the VFL dumped it's reserves comp.

Batchelor can't be a miracle worker trying to mould a team from Saints, Zebras and blow ins on match day, especially if the blow ins don't know the regulars or how they play.

Invariably the top ups aren't up to the level so the more of them there are the worse the team is.

That's where i think the real issue is.

[bobmurray]

Latest Sandy news...

We're pleased to announce that Jake Batchelor will continue as our Head Coach for the fourth consecutive year. Whilst ‘immensely eager’ to see how 2024 unfolds, Batch knows that there's work to be done in the off-season and is embracing the challenge of the expanded VFL competition.

[B.M]

I understand the difficulties of being a ‘reserves’ coach

You are at the mercy of the seniors - when it comes to availability

But I am a regular VFL watcher - and underwhelmed and unimpressed with Sandy last two seasons

Basically they were hopeless

[Life Long Saint]

Who cares how Sandy goes on the field?
It's sole purpose is to allow the St Kilda Football Club to develop its players.
If there is some success there, then that is an absolute bonus.

We need to know that the players at Sandy can come in to the senior team and contribute...Like Geelong have been able to do for so long.
We need to have the shark teeth mentality. When one player is injured, there's always another ready to take their place.

Even if they can't execute the skills to the same level, Sandy needs to playing "Saints Footy".

[B.M]

A strong winning culture in the two always influences the firsts.

Young players getting a hiding each week is not good for development

Eg/ Isaac Keeler barely getting any ball and s*** delivery i50 is no good for him.

A happy winning culture across the club is vital for morale across the club
AFL, VFL and AFLW

[Life Long Saint]

Well, it's always better to win, but the AFL must be prioritised over the VFL by the length of the Nullarbor Plain.
The AFLW is somewhere off in a distant galaxy.

[B.M]

VFLs role in development is critical

Ignore that (which we do) and the club will pay the price

[Killa]

Who remembers second eighteen premierships?

League premierships is what it is all about

Sandringham is impacted by the injury list so requiring top up players

To bang on about win/loss and player standards is a nonsense

Most weeks only half the side are on the AFL List, most of them kids with no AFL experience

Get real people

[Scollop]

A strong winning culture in the two always influences the firsts.

Young players getting a hiding each week is not good for development

Eg/ Isaac Keeler barely getting any ball and s*** delivery i50 is no good for him.

A happy winning culture across the club is vital for morale across the club
AFL, VFL and AFLW

This

The evidence shows that if you have a winning culture (and play off in Grand Finals in the VFL) there is a strong correlation with the seniors doing well and bagging at least 1 flag

The St Kilda reserves team were in grannies between 61-63. We won it in the Reserves comp and we went on to win it in the seniors in 66

In the mid 90's North played in 4 consecutive grannies in reserves. They won 2 flags and the seniors also won 2 flags in 96 and 99.

Essendon were in 3 grannies in reserves in the late 90's...etc

In the last 10 or so years Geelong have performed well in the VFL comp as have Richmond as have Melbourne and the Bulldogs. All their seniors went on to win at least 1 flag

More recently Sydney and Brisbane and Southport/Gold Coast have been prominent in finals with Casey (Demons) probably the most consistent with multiple reserves flags

[Scollop]

I think Bachelor is doing as best as he can with the list and talent available. I'm not an insider but I've been generally impressed with him so far.

I don't think changing coaches is the answer.

The club needs to invest resources in keeping players fit and on the park (medical, physio, high performance etc.).

[B.M]

Did we have an injury list due to being under resourced

Or because it’s footy and injuries occur

My guess, it was the latter

I think our HP staff are probably ok

[B.M]

BTW

I think Bachelor lacks experience and credentials

Very underwhelming
He is just a puppet of Ross

[Vortex]

BTW

I think Bachelor lacks experience and credentials

Very underwhelming
He is just a puppet of Ross

He lacks a whole lot more than that, he's coaching a club that barely has more talent available any given week than an ammo side. Not his problem mind you, it's just what happens at poor AFL clubs, there just isn't the budget of the richer clubs or clubs with a strong VFL foundation.

[B.M]

Sandringham has a long and proud history

A powerhouse in the early 90s (2 flags) and mid 2000s (3 flags)

They’ve really only been s*** since we aligned with them.

They actually had some good vfl players
Hipwell, Gown, Milne, Lowe, Lohmann, Seaton


But continual changes of AFL personnel was the issue

And where those players were played.

[Jacks Back]

A strong winning culture in the two always influences the firsts.

Young players getting a hiding each week is not good for development

Eg/ Isaac Keeler barely getting any ball and s*** delivery i50 is no good for him.

A happy winning culture across the club is vital for morale across the club
AFL, VFL and AFLW

This

The evidence shows that if you have a winning culture (and play off in Grand Finals in the VFL) there is a strong correlation with the seniors doing well and bagging at least 1 flag

The St Kilda reserves team were in grannies between 61-63. We won it in the Reserves comp and we went on to win it in the seniors in 66

In the mid 90's North played in 4 consecutive grannies in reserves. They won 2 flags and the seniors also won 2 flags in 96 and 99.

Essendon were in 3 grannies in reserves in the late 90's...etc

In the last 10 or so years Geelong have performed well in the VFL comp as have Richmond as have Melbourne and the Bulldogs. All their seniors went on to win at least 1 flag

More recently Sydney and Brisbane and Southport/Gold Coast have been prominent in finals with Casey (Demons) probably the most consistent with multiple reserves flags

This is interesting. What is the difference between these reserves/aligned clubs and ours though? Surely they are also playing half AFL players at times or is it just that we continue to have too many injuries?

[Life Long Saint]

Sandringham has a long and proud history

A powerhouse in the early 90s (2 flags) and mid 2000s (3 flags)

They’ve really only been s*** since we aligned with them.

They actually had some good vfl players
Hipwell, Gown, Milne, Lowe, Lohmann, Seaton


But continual changes of AFL personnel was the issue

And where those players were played.

Who cares about their history.
The only reason I care about Sandringham is that they are aligned with St Kilda.
In the old VFA, I supported Williamstown. I love that they're now a stand alone club.
Maybe Sandy should pursue that option and we should look at another option. One where it looks, feels, and behaves like the St Kilda VFL team.

[D.B.Cooper]

How does the alignment differ atm

Sandy is run onfield by StKilda coaches - Bachelor is employed by StK

StK players get full priority in selection and positional

I simply don’t think the alignment is the problem - it’s no different to Box Hill, Casey etc… we just look for excuses that aren’t actually there.

To me
It was the influence of StK that hurt. Playing for the saints reasons and not to win

The OP has challenged the ability of the coach. I think he’s not up to it!

Personally I think the coaches input is massively overrated, it's the playing talent that matters most.

It wouldn't matter if Bachelor was Leigh Matthews or Alistair Clarkson, with the talent that was available to Sandy last season the two multiple AFL premiership coaches would have struggled.

The majority of the Sandy top up players are local league B&F level, and with the early season absences Bachelor was nearly on his own (pardon the dad joke).

[Yorkeys]

It's a fallacy to say coaching is over rated. It's generally considered very important. However if you can show an example of 40 young men putting aside their individual wants, placing themselves by some collective decision on the playing arena during a serious match, organising training, performance reviews, skills sessions and constructive feedback as well as effort motivation I will concede.

[Vortex]

It's a fallacy to say coaching is over rated. It's generally considered very important. However if you can show an example of 40 young men putting aside their individual wants, placing themselves by some collective decision on the playing arena during a serious match, organising training, performance reviews, skills sessions and constructive feedback as well as effort motivation I will concede.

You do realise you contradict yourself here.

The 40 young men have to have a diverse range of physical and mental skills capable of executing.

Doesn't matter how good the coach and his program is, you need players who can execute and there is an endless stream of highly successful coaches and players who state this point consistently.

Coach important, players more important.

For evidence review Ross's record at Saints fist time around versus his winning percentage of 33% in his last 4 years at Freo which is ironically exaxrly the same as Richo's record.