A few thoughts....post Weagles Game

[saintsRrising]

WC of last year playing that well would have pumped us by 10 goals.....


On the plus side...the last few weeks have shown that the players are finally mastering playing the defensive game properly when the opposition has the ball.

This bodes well for the future.....and while we can still possibly make the 8 this year I am just reflecting on 2008 a little..

For most of the night WC had to work really hard to gain entries into their forward line. The game also demonstrated quite clearly much what we already knew about the areas that we need to improve in foe 2008.

Full back. Unfortunately max is still our only true option here. Sam Fisher and Maguire who can both play well across HB or CHB simply to not have the pace or spoiling ability to play on a true full forward.

I wonder how quick Allen is??? does he have a quick lead??? If so he may be groomed asa a FB.

If not...then I suspect that RL will search high and low for one.

Half Forward Le Cras bobbed up for some vital goals. How our forward line screams outa true HF to complement our talls and Milne. We need Hamill desperately as Sweeney would not quite seem to be ripe yet......and may lack that vital extra metre or so of pace.

Maybe BJ??

Ruck Our ruck division when against a quality ruckmen such as Cox is ordinary. Our hopes are currently pinned on Gardiner & particularly if you want a good rucmen in 2008......VR looks good but is several years away as yet.

Kosi is improving but simply cannot palm the ball the way Cox does.


Mids We are short at least 2.....and at least one with pace. What we would give for ball to regain full fitness!!!! Armo will start to come on...but will still be young next year. The Weagles have a production line of young mids in waiting. We need to improve here.

Our list has ample flankers and not enough mids. RL is going have to be creative here.

Lets also hope that Geary and Eddie can continue their improvement such that at least of them makes it.

We are thin for mids...and the next draft is thin......so it makes it hard to have too many delistings.

I think thetefore that RL will keep Mini and will seek to work on him.....I think some of flankers will be delisted though....Raymond is a definate. Voss and Fergs are possibles. Ferg will most likely play against the Tigers and will need a cleaner game next week to be retained.


Taggers Attard appears to have done his knee which is a real pity as his tagging and shut down jobs have been good and his first half tonight was outstanding. Add Bakes suspension and it looks like we are starting 2008 without a tagger.


Medical room Will have a big say in 2008... can Gardiner and Hamill be regained??? If so that is a big plus.

I think we will also have a few oldies that will need to be managed. While some want GTrain to go......if Fergus Watts had played then I am in no doubt that Glass would have destroyed him.


Watts is an interesting one...if GTrain plays on....then with Watts being a power marking but slow moving forward he is competing with Kosi who has greater versatility due to his ruckwork.

Will RL be tempted to trade him for a mid....perhaps to the Dogs???

I really do not see many other plays on our list who we could afford to let go....that other clubs would give us anything of value for.


RL shows faith in his players.......so which of our fringe can he convert.

It is interesting to note that for example in the last few games that Fiora has won some good inside ball.


Mini perhaps???

But realistically we seem to have a number of players that are not first 22 material IF you want to bea grand Finalist.

RL has had a year now to have a look....so it will be interesting to see what his assessment will be.

I don't expect massive change though as this years draft is not that strong. 3 maybe 4 picks.

As posted in other strings by others we really need to work on our base fitness and skill level.

Hopefully our new AIS fitness guys can ensure that most of our group has a solid pre-season..... BUT more than that I hope that they can achieve some genuine improvement.


Which lastly leaves pace.

Just as Cox once again demonstrated the value ofa dominant ruckman...Cousins showed the value ofa mid with pace and run. Now I am not saying we can pull a Cousins out of no where....but a pacey mid is what we need to complement our current mids. Unfortunately Howard would appear to bea long way off yet...if at all.



The above probably sounds too negative...for I think we are well set to improve in 2008....but our list certainly requires some work...and a lot of good fortune medical wise.

[wallbanger]

Nice post. I agree with your assessment of where the squad sits, almost entirely.

There are some signifcant holes in the team that need some quick filling, in order to make the 'relatively' small step from where we are now genuine top 4 material next year.

Can we hang our hat on Gardiner solving the ruck issue? He could be the real saviour we have been looking for in the ruck for the last few seasons - or he could be the worst buy in a long while. I sincerely hope it is the former, as a fit and keen Michael Gardiner could make a MASSIVE difference to this team.

Yes, we need to inject some pace into the midfield, which is easier said than done. The club definitely needs to look to recruit a young, pacy midfielder who is on the fringe somewhere - not another slow-ish, turnover king like Birss. I don't believe he is the answer.

One of the most important additions needed to the structure, as you have quite rightly pointed out, is a quality flanker who kicks goals and presents. With Milne and Gehrig being so hot and cold, it is essential to have another option (thinking someone in the mold of Brad Fisher, LeCras, even Dale Thomas) - a 6ft or so, mobile, presenting forward who provides an option and drags a defender away from the magnificent Riewoldt. That type of player is a must.

I think there are some positive signs, particularly with the footy played in the second half of the season. Yes, games were lost that should've been won, and last quarters on the whole have been very ordinary - that is clearly a fitness issue as well as a mental issue, and something that the coaching staff need to address over summer to enable the team to play the style of game more effectively and for the full four quarters in 2008. Whilst I too am so very disappointed with last night's result, I still see positive signs for the future - something I could not envisage at the half-way point of 2007.

I would love the team to still scrape into the Finals - the experience for some of the younger guys would be fantastic, and I actually believe the guys would be a huge chance of winning in the first week.

Let's hope they get the oppportunity.

[saintsRrising]

Can we hang our hat on Gardiner solving the ruck issue? He could be the real saviour we have been looking for in the ruck for the last few seasons - or he could be the worst buy in a long while. I sincerely hope it is the former, as a fit and keen Michael Gardiner could make a MASSIVE difference to this team.

.

Can we??? Who knows...though the club who have access to medical advice will have a better ide that we the fans do.

Do we have much choice??? For 2008 most likely we do not for the odds on being able to trade fora quality ruckman would be low.....and any kid traded will need time to bloom (ie we have VR in our system....).

There is the possibility of a rookie ruckman who already has a few years under his belt...but again the odds on gettinga mature rookie ruckman that can play good senior football in his firest year are low.

OPTIONS

1/Do everything possible to get Gardi medically fit.

2/ Ramp up Kosi's ruck training. He has said that this year that he has learnt a lot from M Clarke. Perhaps a summer of ruk training could pay real dividends. Kos's bodywork at ruck contests is poor...and his tapwork has improved I think markedly this yera, but is still well below the best.


3/ Blake. Sorry...Blake can doa wonderful job against inexperienced rucks and short rucks.....but the bottom line here is that very good teams will not have such beasts and so if you want to be a fair dinkum premiership threat that this is not an option.


4/ Rix.....will be retained I think as an emergency ruck to cover for injuries and suspensions......but based on this year will never be good enough to compete against quality rucks.

5/ M Clarke....would not surprise me if RL wants to keep him for one more year. If not asa player then asa ruck coach. See 2.

6/ Aquirea ruckman by trade. If done there is no point grabbing another GOP like sugar or Knoble......and this makes the chance of securing sucha beast not likely as there are not many around. Expect the club to look though the cupborad may be bare.

7/ Draft and or Rookie. I would expect another to be picked up....but RL is also torn by the need to have more mids anda FB

8/ Brooks. A bit of an enigma...at times looks very good..and at other times seems totally disinteresed. Will he be delisted or reatined? RL did not pick him much this year even when the ruck stock cupborad was bare.....so would seem to be on the outer.

[saintsRrising]

The Medical Room

The Saints have recently appointed 4 guys from the AIS and have ramped up in this area.

Luke Ball who has so far avoided surgery and tried every non-surgical option is according to himself (interviewed on SEN this morning) is now seriously considering surgery as he has come to realisation that he has to try something more extreme in order to try and reagain a higher level of fitness.

Hamill (admittedly he may already be at the chronic stage)

Gardi (is he gone before he has played???)


BJ recovering

Attard having possibly just gone down (and hence may miss 2008)

GTrain who has been carrying injuries all year..

Max and Harves who need to be nursed

X and Raphs ongoing soft tissues problems..


If and it is a big IF we can makea genuine and significant improvement in the medical and finess management of our players then in effect we gain several more recuits. Easier said than done...but there are signs that our injury cycle has turned.

[Oh When the Saints]

Outstanding post as always saintsRrising.

It seems the players are finally starting to click as a group ... and click in terms of following Lyon's instructions ... the past two weeks have been the best two consecutive weeks of football we have played since 2005 IMO.

Which is a great sign.


Agree with most of your thoughts on the list ...


I believe Gardiner will give us good service next year ... I would like to see Fraser retire to allow us to become more flexible with Kosi and Roo ...

Ball I would give 2008 off if he needs it ... he's only 23 and has 10 years left if he can get himself fit.


But bloody hell ... we need midfielders more than anything in the world.

[saintsRrising]

I think Ross has the guys approaching how he wants them to play....he still has to polish their execution now....

His next ficus has to be on building the list he wants,,,,which has discussed includes getting the players he already has on the field.

[rodgerfox]

WC of last year playing that well would have pumped us by 10 goals.....


On the plus side...the last few weeks have shown that the players are finally mastering playing the defensive game properly when the opposition has the ball.

This bodes well for the future.....and while we can still possibly make the 8 this year I am just reflecting on 2008 a little..

Didn't West Coast kick over 100 points?

Gee, I wish we could defend that well every week.

(sarcasm intended)

[Nathine29]

Funny, I never knew Ice was a performance enhancing drug LOL

[SirDog]

WC of last year playing that well would have pumped us by 10 goals.....

In 2006 when they won the Premiership (drug assisted) against St.Kilda:
Rnd 1 - they won by 18 points.
Rnd 2 - they won by 39 points.

In 2005 it was 32 points they won by in Rnd 8.

So yes we have marginally improved scorewise, but the WCE's were missing Kerr, Embley and Chick whilst carrying an injured Judd. So it is pretty hard to compare against the WCE alone.

I just measure us on where we finish because although our team can improve so can other clubs so at the end of the day our ladder position or win/lose ratio is what I prefer to go on.

And this year if we do not make the top 8 it is a step backwards.

[saintsRrising]

[ but the WCE's were missing Kerr, Embley and Chick whilst carrying an injured Judd. .

Sounds like you are toeing the media line about how well the "injury ravaged Eagles" went....

And we were missing:
Harvey, Max, BJ & Hamill....and arguably Gardiner

Plus the suspended Baker

Injury wise Ball still had his groin PLUS a corkie from the week prior which restructed him further..

PLUS X went into the game witha corky too..

PLUS Attard went down...perhaps he may have ben an option to switch onto Cousins???



So all in all we were playing with a bigger handicap than the weagles injury wise.

[skeptic]

Here's what I think will happen

We'll get 2 ruckman to replace M. Clarke and Brooks. Pbly one through the draft and maybe a young up and comer berift of opportunity. hopes will predominantly rest with Gardiner for next season

Our stocks down back generally don't look too bad. Hudghton, Maguire, Fisher x 2, Raph, Goddard, Baker, Attard are generally all in the mix. As pointed out, we're short a FB if Max goes down but IMO we'll pbly go with what we have next year and try to address this in 12months time.
Ferguson will pbly be spared and perhaps Allan may be tried. Gwilt will go; has not showed enough.

The recruitment drive will be done in the middle. Need to get 1 up and coming/peaking pacey midfielder, 1 big bodied enforcer type midfielder and another promsing kid. Look for Armo to step up.
Thompson is gone, Raymond too. McQualter will be spared. I've heard the draft is a bit thin, wouldn't be surprised to see a rookie or two promoted.

Our forward line needs a bit of a tweak. Gehrig and Roo will continue to make up the spine with Kosi resting down forward. Just about everyone else is hanging on by a thread.
Milney will be shopped around, Voss will go, Sweeney will go. I have a feeling that Watts will stay.

So in total

Out
Brooks
M.Clarke
Gwilt
Sweeney
Voss

and possibly Harvey, Gehrig, Milne, Watts

Jones and Geary the most likely rookies to be promoted. Maybe Van'Rheehan if we can't nab another ruck

[plugger66]

Here's what I think will happen

We'll get 2 ruckman to replace M. Clarke and Brooks. Pbly one through the draft and maybe a young up and comer berift of opportunity. hopes will predominantly rest with Gardiner for next season

Our stocks down back generally don't look too bad. Hudghton, Maguire, Fisher x 2, Raph, Goddard, Baker, Attard are generally all in the mix. As pointed out, we're short a FB if Max goes down but IMO we'll pbly go with what we have next year and try to address this in 12months time.
Ferguson will pbly be spared and perhaps Allan may be tried. Gwilt will go; has not showed enough.

The recruitment drive will be done in the middle. Need to get 1 up and coming/peaking pacey midfielder, 1 big bodied enforcer type midfielder and another promsing kid. Look for Armo to step up.
Thompson is gone, Raymond too. McQualter will be spared. I've heard the draft is a bit thin, wouldn't be surprised to see a rookie or two promoted.

Our forward line needs a bit of a tweak. Gehrig and Roo will continue to make up the spine with Kosi resting down forward. Just about everyone else is hanging on by a thread.
Milney will be shopped around, Voss will go, Sweeney will go. I have a feeling that Watts will stay.

So in total

Out
Brooks
M.Clarke
Gwilt
Sweeney
Voss

and possibly Harvey, Gehrig, Milne, Watts

Jones and Geary the most likely rookies to be promoted. Maybe Van'Rheehan if we can't nab another ruck

From what you have said we are recruiting 7 players next year. That will not happen. % at the most which means Jimmy is safe and he is safe because he has a contract and Milne will stay for sure and so he should. Otherwise most others will go. geary IMO will not be promoted and VR is no hope.

[saintsRrising]

Draft is meant to be thin...so one would not anticipate too many draft selections..

[borderbarry]

You can add Thommo to your retirement list. And Raymond will probably be the first to go. And I dont know if Jones can be retained as a rookie, if not he could go as well.

[saintsRrising]

You can add Thommo to your retirement list. And Raymond will probably be the first to go. And I dont know if Jones can be retained as a rookie, if not he could go as well.

Personally I think that raymond and Thommo are the only two ceratainties.....

Everyone else from Brooks up to say Voss may go..

But I don't believe that there will be a big clean out as there simply is nota lot of depth to who we could draft.

I can't see RL making massive trades......or that of the players that we do not NEED that the others would have much trade value.

Watts may be...perhaps Brooks, but what other clubs would give for Brooks may be very little to nil...oustide of these two I cannot really envisage any tradeable players.

Will RL surprise on this???