time to exit out harvs,gehrig,clarke,thommo,voss

[rogerwa]

been missing for a couple of days so not going back over everyone elses threads
after watching hawth dismantle foots yesterday imo we are now 2 yrs off the pace..some may say it was only foots but they did something we couldnt do thats take em to the cleaners we couldnt even beat em ..
its a gimme that clarke,voss,thommo's days are over which brings us to harvey & gehrig,the easy thing to do would be to carry on as we are for another yr & fall another yr off the pace or bite the bullet free up about 3/4 of a mill in the salary cap (35 & 9) & get some badly needed run through the midfield & some movement up forward

the top few clubs have 1/2 doz or more who can run hard all day at the moment we have hayes & to a lesser extent dal santo,montagne & thats it...up forward it gets even worse,the opposition dont mind roo getting 50 marks outside 50 its rarely going to hurt em on the scoreboard & once it goes deep in forward unless gehrig gets it first grab its goodnight nurse & off they go

to watch the likes of hodge (forward midfield or back) & the movement franklin created deep forward was enough to turn you green with envy

a serious rocket needs to be put up a few arses...not only our serial offenders who have done nothing at springy in a 3rd rate comp but names being picked each week without any real consistancy of effort

imo this yrs flag was the easiest (most open)to grab in the past 5 or 6 yrs yet we will be lucky to make the 8

we are treading ground & unless we get some run,movement,vigour,youth into the mix next yr things will stay the same

its easy to say we should/could have beaten the eagles like a 1/2 doz times during the season we have lost what we could/should have won ...our ladder position shows what we have is just not good enough

[rogerwa]

should have added not signaling out harvey,gehrig just reckon its time to move on

[st_Trav_ofWA]

there is a bit of truth to what you say roger but i think we can still get the pace and youth into the team withput having to exit out or leading goal kicking forward or our legend of the game we need to get the youth comming in for the dead wood like the brooks sweeneys and raymonds of the team and with the retirments of the doc clarke thommo and maybe a hard decision made on voss and hammil thats going to be enuff movement to get the quallity youth the draft pool is only so deep theres no need to exit out G and Bangers for picks 97 and 108 !

[bigcarl]

not gehrig imo. as for harvs, he has earned the right to make up his own mind. the others, yes

[rogerwa]

my reasoning on gehrig was the days of a big bodied deep forward who can do nothing else are over..the 3 or 4 who spring to mind are
neitz..adds nothing to melb..first grab or goodnight nurse
richo..can still move but look where rich are
rocca..spent force against quality opposition
gehrig..spent force against quality opposition
lynch..has about 5 yrs on the others can still provide movement

footys almost like basketball...run & movement
the days of a lynch(bris) sitting in the goal square are history unless you have 2 or 3 other options who can provide that movement which bris had...we dont

[Dan Warna]

lynch was an effective decoy FF for brisbanes premiership years.

he was kicking between 50 and 70 goals.

[bigcarl]

who is going to fill gehrig's shoes? good full forwards are hard to find and big blokes like lynch, lockett, gehrig etc can play into their mid-thirties if the hunger is still there.

i think kosi can play full-forward very effectively, but then we need to find another first ruck.

[rogerwa]

lynch didnt have to really do to much...the bears had a dominant key forward (brown)& a truck load of mid sizes who hit the scoreboard consistantly every week..if we get one goal a week from one of our smalls its like winning lotto

[Oh When the Saints]

Totally agree rogerwa.

The "era" of players who were playing pre-1998 is over.

Gehrig, Frankie, Powell, Aussie, Thommo, Voss, Clarke ..... their time is/was finished and they won't be part of our next premiership team.

2007 has been a big year for changing of the guard in the AFL ... the blokes who were at their peak in the mid/late 90's are basically all gone.


We won't win a flag with those blokes around .... they might contribute, but we need to inject another crop of youngster in.


And you are correct about the run ...

We need more mids .... just look at the Power - they are full of quick running players.


We have the core to win a flag ... a bit of tweaking at the older end of the list and we will be right to go.

[rogerwa]

carl maybe using lockett is a good example..may have kicked a million goals,won 10 colemans etc which is a great INDIVIDUAL effort but history shows in 15 yrs of domination at ff he never played in a premiership team....i've given up on bloody colemans,brownlows,records etc etc

all i want is a farkin flag...cant see it heading our way next yr if we just go about doing as we are

stuff individuals...gimma a flag

[meher baba]

All this stuff starts to get a bit repetitive.

Thommo and M Clarke are going anyway. From the way he played on Friday, Voss should probably go too. We will also probably be waving goodbye to Raymond and probably at least two out of Sweeney, Gwilt, Brooks, Ferguson and McQualter. We probably won't be elevating Attard permanently until 2009 given that he is so severely injured.

So we will have 5 positions available to be filled by new recruits or elevated rookies.

No club in its right mind would get rid of Harvey and Gehrig under these circumstances.

[terry smith rules]

All this stuff starts to get a bit repetitive.

Thommo and M Clarke are going anyway. From the way he played on Friday, Voss should probably go too. We will also probably be waving goodbye to Raymond and probably at least two out of Sweeney, Gwilt, Brooks, Ferguson and McQualter. We probably won't be elevating Attard permanently until 2009 given that he is so severely injured.

So we will have 5 positions available to be filled by new recruits or elevated rookies.

No club in its right mind would get rid of Harvey and Gehrig under these circumstances.

exactly

do we need this thread every week

you cannot turn over more than 8 of your list in one year (and we have a couple of deadwoods as well as the retirees)

therefore #9 will play on, he is going to finisg with around 60 goals, that is still a pretty reasonable return

people say he does not play well against quality opposition, well you could say that about most players couldn't you, thats what makes them quality.

an interesting stat would be to see, how many times this years has fraser been the target on the inside 50s, of those how many actaully got close to hitting him

I reckon you would find that around 30% of all passes to fraser hit his bootlaces or miss him entirely, he gets spoiled on maybe 35% and gets it on 35%

then how many times is he the target, maybe 12 times a game?

so he can't be blamed if the ball is not getting close to him

fqf

[cwrcyn]

Ross Lyon was apparently keen to offload up to 10 players by his assessment earlier in the season, but this upcoming draft is of a very poor quality (likened to the same draft we picked up McQualter in). This will mean that the Saints will probably turnover only 5 players, six at a push.

That means that some underperformers will get one more shot at it.


Last years draft was the one to load up on, but it's gone and now we look forward.

Don't expect Hamill to retire, either. He'll make sure he sees out his contract, irrespective of whether he gets on the park or not.


Let's just hope that Allen and Armitage really hit their straps and that our first round pick this year will be a beauty. Otherwise, it'll just be more of the same.

[rogerwa]

one point being over looked..imo we need to send out a message of hope to a growing number of fine weather members & thats to get a big signing for next yr & by that i dont mean another run of the mill gop but a top of the wozza 24/25/26 yr old who is mentally tough

to do that you need $'s up your sleeve & to keep what you need

guessing..gehrig on about 400g
harvs on about the same or a bit more(in someones so called wisdom was not on vets list)

in both circumstances can you get better output for 400g imo ...yes

as i've already said i'm thinking team not individual be they legend or fan favorites

[st_Trav_ofWA]

im all for bringing youth in but at the same time G and harves still have somthing to offer the team
i agree there is a need of the changing of the guard needed to bring in some new excitement and enthusiasm to the club but lets not just cut our nose off to spite our face here if we cut away every player in the team who is not able to make the senior side on a regular occurance
eg
brooks
sweeny
Raymond
watts
Voss
hamil
Mini
thommo
Doc

thats nine players i would keep Watts and mini that leaves 7 players we could delist maybe 6 if hamil is kept to his contract if we go mad drafting kids our first pick would be expected to become a player and so would you think of our second but the third - sixth pick we would be basically picking at the bones of the draft and from all reports this draft doesnt run as deep as the last one , we are not in the ladder posison of rich carlt or melb so topping up at the draft isnt going to produce the cream we are looking for , we cant really use the trade cause lets face it you get what you give in the trades so for my mind we need to do this over a pereiod of a few years to get the best quallity of our list and also stagger the age of our list for the next generation. the afl rules states we have to delist a specific amount of players each year so if we exit out too many in one year we will only shoot ourself in the foot the next year when we are forced to delist a player b4 they have had a chance to reach their potential

if we delist say 5 this year bring in 5 new kids then lets say next year we can exit out the next 5 and bring in the next crop of youth

there is no quick fix working on youth will take time

[saintsRrising]

one point being over looked..imo we need to send out a message of hope to a growing number of fine weather members & thats to get a big signing for next yr & by that i dont mean another run of the

That is fantasy stuff.. Ain't going to happen.

By and large very good players do not swap clubs. about the only niche will be if their is a Vic wanting to come back.....but if they are exceptional...ie Judd....they will not be going anywhere.



We were very fortunate that Blight attracted some very good players to join us.

[Unforgiven]

should have added not signaling out harvey,gehrig just reckon its time to move on

Agree. I love Harvs, and am a big fan of Fraser. Both I think would be an assest on 08 and have the ability to go on.

Though i do agree it's time to move on(Fraser more so than Gherig). Harvs will continue to do his thing and play less a role as he goes on. If Fraser goes though we can change a lot, have some unpredictability etc.

[Oh When the Saints]

Though i do agree it's time to move on(Fraser more so than Gherig).

Didn't know you could separate them ...

Is it a case of Fraser being ahead of Gehrig, or just the fact that Gehrig is behind Fraser in terms of ability?

I personally feel that Gehrig comes ahead of Fraser, but if it's the other way around, then it's probably best if Fraser moves on ahead of Gehrig.

[spert]

Consistant form from individuals and the team wins games and premierships, no up and down, one week hot, one week cold stuff. Presuming we won't crack the flag this season, I expect RL will keep those who he reckons he can build a premiership team with.

[The Peanut]

Consistant form from individuals and the team wins games and premierships, no up and down, one week hot, one week cold stuff. Presuming we won't crack the flag this season, I expect RL will keep those who he reckons he can build a premiership team with.

Yep . . . and if RL can see that the G and Harves fit in to his plans for the next 12 months and they are both keen then I guess it will happen.

[rogerwa]

imput from both players has not been poor (esspecially harvey)however at BEST we wiil get same imput & at worst LESS
the yr has shown our best aint good enough...imo it will come down to does he shore his job up for another yr (keep em)or bite the bullet & go 2 yrs down the track

every yr ya gotta improve that 5 % or before you know it you are over taken

our best 1/2 doz or so are as good as anyones its what we surround em with that will dictate whether we rise,stagnate or drop off over the next yr or 2

[The Peanut]

. . . our best 1/2 doz or so are as good as anyones its what we surround em with that will dictate whether we rise,stagnate or drop off over the next yr or 2

yep . . . too true
But we would have to be lucky to fill all the gaps with ready-mades for 2008 and with Harves and G we know what we have until RL's dream team hits the park, probably in 2009.

Hi there Rog by the way - keep your hands in your pockets.

[bigcarl]

let's hope we don't try to "top up" with more duds like clarke.

ffs, ts40 (who we offloaded for clarke) would have been better value in the ruck.