Grams overhead work stinks!

[CURLY]

Watched the replays on Fox of the Collingwood and West Coast games over the weekend. Gram was flogged continuously when the ball was in the air. He made little or no body contact and Dale Thomas just destroyed him overhead. Grams run and penertrating kicking is very important but he has to improve his work overhead or oppistion will exploit it by dragging him to the square and kicking it to him one out. Does anyone else see this flaw in his game and would you like to see him improve his core body strength to lift his game a notch.

[riccardo]

Do you REALLY want to start this up? I just want to know now if you are prepared for whats coming, thats all.

[CURLY]

What? He is poor overhead if he is to play across half back he needs to improve his body work and spoiling.

[evertonfc]

What? He is poor overhead if he is to play across half back he needs to improve his body work and spoiling.

The worst spoiler at the club.

He's a terrific player, but geez, he's a shocker in the overhead one-on-ones, and when you play as a defender - even a running, loose one - you need to have some idea on how to punch.

I'm delighted with how Gram has emerged as a player; he's not Aussie Jones, but he's the next best thing. If he could add this string to his bow, he'd be a much better defensive prospect.

And Ric, I know he's your boy, but fair criticism is not unjustified.

[SENsei]

Gram's strength isn't man-on-man or spoiling. He makes up for that in speed and delivery.

[riccardo]

Gram's strength isn't man-on-man or spoiling. He makes up for that in speed and delivery.

Exactly. Nobody can be perfect in every single way, name a player and I'll tell you where he sucks.

To open a thread lamping a best 22 player on one aspect of his game (based on flimsy evidence at best, it needs to be said) is a little bit rich. don't you think?

I know the off season is dull, but don't go spoiling for fights, please.

[CURLY]

Gram's strength isn't man-on-man or spoiling. He makes up for that in speed and delivery.

Exactly. Nobody can be perfect in every single way, name a player and I'll tell you where he sucks.

To open a thread lamping a best 22 player on one aspect of his game (based on flimsy evidence at best, it needs to be said) is a little bit rich. don't you think?

I know the off season is dull, but don't go spoiling for fights, please.

The evidence is there for all to see go watch the replays. I like Gram but if hes to play across half back one of the skills required is spoiling. Players who play his position have to have a defencive side to there game and thats the big area were Gram can improve. No ones saying he should be dropped just that his spoiling and body work leaves a lot to be desired.

[karnaby]

That is a huge over reaction riccardo! & why should very legitimate comment about a player have you threatening a fight?

Good pick up CURLY. If every player on our list was able to identify weaknesses in their game and make reasonable improvements on those each year we'd be far better off as a team.

[saintsRrising]

As I am not familar with Gram's junior career...where did he play his early footy??

I think he was touted as a midfielder, and if this is the case then this may be in part why this aspect (spoiling) still needs to be improved.


It is one thing to be very valuable for his run and carry and ability to break the lines with both that and his booming kick.......and another to be able to spoil when he needs to do so. He does not have to become our teams best spoiler...but if he can improve then our team improvers too.



The Saints finiished outside the 8 last season....and canot rely just on having less injuries for success in 2008. We need to have the players and team all improve in many ways.


Evey player needs to do their bit....including those that are currently "automatic" starts in our best 22.

Near enough is not good enough if your idea of sucess is to wina flag. If you just want to make up the numbers then ok...if we wanta flag then we need improvement wherever possible.

Gram needs to improve his spoling and dfensice side.

X and Fiora both have to be able to nail goals when they have the chance.

Kosi needs to improve the quality of his tapwork and ruck body work.

Dal needs to learn to break tags better.

Armo needs to get fit...


GTrain needs to be more consistent and not go walkabout like he does in some off games.

Blake needs to hurt the opposition more when he has the ball.

Milney needs to become more consistent....and to tackle better.

Gilbert needs to work on his kicking.

Bakes has to overcome being a "marked" man.


Schnieder if he wants to play midfield has to himprove his base fitness.

etc..

[bigcarl]

Watched the replays on Fox of the Collingwood and West Coast games over the weekend. Gram was flogged continuously when the ball was in the air. He made little or no body contact and Dale Thomas just destroyed him overhead. Grams run and penertrating kicking is very important but he has to improve his work overhead or oppistion will exploit it by dragging him to the square and kicking it to him one out. Does anyone else see this flaw in his game and would you like to see him improve his core body strength to lift his game a notch.

this is one of the reasons i think gram should play on the wing. the other reason is that he is a terrific long kick and can really launch them goalward from a long way out.

[suss]

Agreed. He's doesn't play body on body well enough to play back pocket and was found out several times last season. I think he's best on the half back line where he's not as exposed however he needs to toughen up this year and improve the defensive part of his game.

[Solar]

I agree that gram is shocking in that department but honestly apart from maxy all our backman either go for the mark or get out marked. Spoiling needs to be a big skill work upon over the preseason

[Mr X from the West]

Agree with these comments. Gram and his cohorts down back need to lift big time in this area - it's cost us games in the past 2-3 years.

[CURLY]

Agreed. He's doesn't play body on body well enough to play back pocket and was found out several times last season. I think he's best on the half back line where he's not as exposed however he needs to toughen up this year and improve the defensive part of his game.

It doesnt matter if hes half back or back pocket his opponent will just take him close to goal. Oppisition coaches will direct there teams to use Grams man as the go to man as they know his weak in that area.

[st.byron]

Gram's strength isn't man-on-man or spoiling. He makes up for that in speed and delivery.

Exactly. Nobody can be perfect in every single way, name a player and I'll tell you where he sucks.

To open a thread lamping a best 22 player on one aspect of his game (based on flimsy evidence at best, it needs to be said) is a little bit rich. don't you think?

I know the off season is dull, but don't go spoiling for fights, please.

He's entitled to his opinion. And he's provided evidence to back it up. Before you go blindly backing your man, why don't you get the replays out and have a look.

[saintspremiers]

Gram is shyte at spoiling and overhead, yes that's a fact, but the rest of his game, especially his running and possession ability and what he does with the ball is excellent.

Given we now how King and supposedly a fit Gardiner in our ranks, our big "tough men" stocks are much stronger than they have been for years, ie. since Gram was a regular.

"Softer" overhead players such as Gram will benefit enormously from a decent rucking division.

[evertonfc]

I am yet to see the problem with highlighting a flaw in a player? Are they sacred? We pump them up ALL the time - some criticism isn't beyond them.

Every player has flaws; bringing them into light often sees them get rectified (cue someone saying "yeah, as if the coaches reas SS" - mmhm, trust me, it filters through either directly or, more often, indirectly). When it comes to spoiling, that can definitely be worked on, and I'm sure Gram will come under heavy scrutiny for it this year if he fails to throw his fists up effectively.

However, if he responds, he could be one of the most effective running defenders in the game, knowing that he's added that crucial defensive ability to his game.

The OP should have been better worded, but the sentiment was fair.

Justified criticism with a view to improvement? No problem in my book.

[Otiman]

Do you REALLY want to start this up? I just want to know now if you are prepared for whats coming, thats all.

Hurt your feelings, did he?

Take it on the chin and retort properly, that's just a nothing reply from you.

On the subject itself, Gram is touted as a rebounding defender, and his "defensive" skills rely on the opposition worrying about the run he generates out of the backline, so he can position his opponent on the field rather than the reverse.

It's the major reason his goal is to be a midfielder, where overhead skills count for little.

His best defensive game would have to be against Essendon this year, where he and i believe it was Sam Fisher held Lucas and Lloyd to a few goals.

[aussiejones]

"Every player has flaws"

I like Robert Harveys attitude to this .... according to past posts RH works to improve areas of his game and does this from an exceprional base of a high level of fittness.

If only his committment was shared amongst some of the players who are making up the numbers.

Re Gram . Yes aspects of his game could do with improvement BUT he is avery valuable member of the team.

I presume the training services and the coach have detailed programms for ALL the guys....... analysing their areas for improvement.

Cant wait for 2008

[riccardo]

Do you REALLY want to start this up? I just want to know now if you are prepared for whats coming, thats all.

Hurt your feelings, did he?

Take it on the chin and retort properly, that's just a nothing reply from you.

Thats a bit of the pot calling the kettle black judging by the above.

I'm satisfied with my response, despite a number of posters still playing the man not the ball (I thought this wasn't allowed anymore?)

[GrumpyOne]

IMO the team structure should be that which allows Gram to do what he is best at, namely run and break lines. Opposition coaches know that and try to make him accountable, which is the weakness in his game. RL has to respond quicker this year to that tactic, as his drive from the half back line is a vital element in our game. He should never have a tagging or key defensive role.

[rogerwa]

watched about 1/2 the game also....even allowing for injuries during season you can see why we missed the 8...have some very very average players at best

another startling weakness was hard ball gets...9 times out of 10 in a contested situation the filth came away with the pill

the gops cant do much more than keep plugging away however some of our so-called more fancied players need a good rocket up the arze if we hope to get anywhere near top 4

if we are true to roo's words ...get on the bus or get run over can see a few bodies with tyre marks on em

[james rose]

think it was a fiar comment ric.. and if you looked at the post and thought of it as advice for gram rather than an attack at gram.. I think you'd feel alot better about the post...

the other day I was saying the same thing to my old man but included maguire in the comment as i thing goose often outmarks his players but when the opportunity for the textbook spoil arrises he still goes the mark or misses with the spoil...

[The_Dud]

he shouldn't be played as a 'defensive' defender, because to be honest, he's flat out hopeless at it

played as a 'attacking' defender or on the wing, he's one of the best in the league

[esaint66]

hes a short player hes in the side for penetration off half back from memory he recoreded the most running bounces last season we cant all be great but there are things we can improve on.