No Secrets at Saints: 2008 Season - No spot for Max!!

[Sainterone]

From the Hun (Mark Robinson):

WHICHEVER way you look at St Kilda, you see a contender.

Not that the Saints are making it easy.

The "secret Saints" have had the doors closed since November, with coach Ross Lyon apparently putting hours and hours into his game plan.

It's only fine-tuning, they say - and that's all it needs.

Throw in luck, a strong list, and a structure that is as good as any in the past five years at St Kilda, then understand why Saints fans have more to smile about than at the same time last year.

Indeed, save for a slight concern over the defence, Lyon's men appear poised to campaign deep into September.

I haven't found a spot for Max Hudghton in my best 22.

A long-time staple of the defence, and one of the club's most reliable players, my faith has diminished because of injury. Just 10 games last year and another soft-tissue injury in his second outing in the pre-season doesn't instil confidence.

If he plays it's a bonus.

That means Matt Maguire and Sam Fisher will need to take the key forwards, with the awkward-looking but highly valued Sam Gilbert as the third tall. Gilbert stands 194cm - Scott Lucas is 192cm - and offers dash with height.

He's 21 with 20 games under his belt, so he's raw. But he's one to watch.

Jason Gram is a must, so that leaves a flank. Everyone wants Raph Clarke to put up his hand, but he alone must do it. If not, Brendon Goddard is itching to reclaim his spot after almost 12 months looking on. He might already have it.

Nothing wrong with the midfield. Well, nothing outside the concerns of Dermott Brereton - and, to a lesser extent, Grant Thomas - on Robert Harvey.

They may be right, but Harvs deserves better than a public hanging after one NAB Cup game. Especially after Saturday night, it would appear Harvey is not on the decline.

Nick Dal Santo is a superstar, Lenny Hayes is with him, Leigh Montagna must continue to assert himself in big matches, and Luke Ball, fingers crossed, has rid himself of osteitis pubis.

He moved pretty well in the NAB Cup and the word out of Moorabbin is he is ready to go.

That leaves the other Clarke. Xavier's time is now. He's 25 this year and has played 97 games. His career is half over. Like all Saints fans, I want to see him play 10 games in a row and be match-hardened.

Lyon has a balancing act with his talls.

Nick Riewoldt, Justin Koschitzke and Fraser Gehrig will play forward, the latter two coming out of the square. It will be more than handy.

And don't fret about Riewoldt's knee, at this stage anyhow. He says he's fine and it can be managed.

But can they take in two ruckmen?

If Steven King is first ruck, will they be too top heavy with Michael Gardiner and, say, Jason Blake on the bench?

Will M. Gardiner miss out, and Kosi ruck when King needs a rest?

What an enormous year it is for Michael Gardiner, who comes out of contract at the end of the season.

Is there still a role for Blake, the 191cm run-with player? Lots of questions.

Charlie Gardiner has had an outstanding pre-season comp, maybe he could play high half-forward/midfield.

Stephen Milne, too, carries a question mark.

To be brutally honest, Milney gives very little interstate - save for Saturday night - struggles against great teams and plays high-risk football, such as in Round 1 of the NAB Cup, when he jumped past a marking contest trying for the spectacular one-handed spoil. He missed. His opponent marked, ran off, and a goal was kicked. Lyon dragged Milne a short time later.

They are his negatives. Like him or not, his positive is he can kick a goal.

For the first time in a long time, Milney is under pressure from teammates. Sydney recruit Adam Schneider will play and if NAB Cup form is an indication, the Saints are a better team with him.

Two players have sneaked into the line-up: Clinton Jones and Shane Birss. Birss is steady as a run-with player or accumulator, and played seven of the last eight games in '07 so Lyon has a role for him, probably running with opposition stars.

Jones is the wildcard - in many ways. When he gets the ball, he is a bundle of energy and indecision, much like the cartoon character Taz, the whirlwind Tasmanian devil.

The best thing about Jones is he gets the ball. He was quiet on Saturday night but before that his NAB Cup form was very good. We can only wait to see if it continues in the main stuff.

The same could be said of the Saints.

[bigcarl]

Will M. Gardiner miss out, and Kosi ruck when King needs a rest?

no. he's too valuable to our forward set up and this would wreck much of its potency.

quite a nice analysis by robbo notwithstanding that i disagree with him on max.

at least robbo has shown he's an avid reader of saintsational.

[saintspremiers]

very good analysis.....he may well be right about Max, especially if Goose is fit to play a productive role in the backline.

[mad saint guy]

The grand final showed just how urgently we need Max in the side. No one else at St Kilda is an above-average spoiler and that probably meant that Tippet could have 6 scoring shots instead of 2 or 3. Most of his marks would have been thumped away if Max was playing and we would have had a comfortable win.

Obviously his injuries are a huge concern, but when Max is fit he should be the first defender picked.

[cowboy18]

Agree msg - against any team sporting a target big forward it would be mad to leave Max out - he is a class defender.

[bigcarl]

he may well be right about Max, especially if Goose is fit to play a productive role in the backline.

i really like goose as a player but i think he is an attacking chb rather than a close-checking, spoiling full back.

gilbert can be a close-checking, spoiling full back but, as robbo says, is pretty raw. he needs time and confidence in the role.

he's max's understudy and will have to step up at times this season.

if max is injured and gilbert is found wanting at this stage of his career we might need to use sam fisher as full back for a time until gilbo is ready.

[Sainterone]

We might be a bit vulnerable down back if we can't get Max on the park.
I rate Max very highly. We know that he's rarely beaten.

I'm not sure that Gilbert could fill the shoes of Max (yet).

...and I agree that Goose is really not a FB.

So who does that leave?

Sam has been doing a fine job for a while now but he needs more help.

What about BJ?
Is there a role for the much maligned Blake (or Rix?)

[Raven]

Luke Miles!!!!!!

Well, in a few years.

[bigcarl]

Is there a role for the much maligned Blake

worth a thought. he's been able to make a fair fist of everything else he's been asked to do on the football field, including ruck.

very versatile player. strong, durable and with huge endurance. has a fair leap on him and is rarely beaten in the air.

BJ? maybe. is he quick enough off the mark to keep up with a leading lucas or lloyd? i don't know.

[riccardo]

The air is fine, its his ground work that concerns me.

He must have oil on the soles of his shoes, a few times someone tackled him on Saturday he went down like a sack of spuds.

Maybe his last year, but I hope he comes good, I like him.

[bigcarl]

Like milne or not, his positive is he can kick a goal.

a desirable quality in a forward i would have thought. robbo and other essendon fans often must regret letting milne go.

[saintsRrising]

The grand final showed just how urgently we need Max in the side. No one else at St Kilda is an above-average spoiler and that probably meant that Tippet could have 6 scoring shots instead of 2 or 3. Most of his marks would have been thumped away if Max was playing and we would have had a comfortable win.

.

Spot on....

Max is our only key defender that is atrue FB and who can effectively shut downa key forward.

I ama big Sam Fisher fan....but he is an attacking defender and is at his best when is free.

Goose is an attacking CHB..not a defensive FB.

Gilbert is promising...but is raw and at present issuited to the flanks or third tall...and not the opposition's best tall forward.



RL has so far rebuilt the list beautifally.....but an emerging key defender we would seem to be short of (though RL has only had 2 years and so you cannot of expected him to have covered all the cracks that he was presented with).

Giilbert could well be one answer...but ot just yet?

Miles....way to early to makea call...one way or another...and may be better suited to a flank than the key post.


Though for future pace...just imagine a HB line
of Miles Gilbert and Gram!!!

[GrumpyOne]

IMO we were one defender short in Nab Cup team. Either Maxy or Goose have to stand up for us to go all the way.

[Dan Warna]

if fit, max would be in the best 22 of any team in the competition.

Robinson is an idiot.

sure question his fitness, we all have, question his hammy's we all have, but don't question his quality.

people forget >< idiots were questioning hayes when he returned from injury.

5 will get you 10 the idiot knives will be out for maguire and goddard if they don't get 30 possession games when they return from injury ><

[plugger66]

if fit, max would be in the best 22 of any team in the competition.

Robinson is an idiot.

sure question his fitness, we all have, question his hammy's we all have, but don't question his quality.

people forget >< idiots were questioning hayes when he returned from injury.

5 will get you 10 the idiot knives will be out for maguire and goddard if they don't get 30 possession games when they return from injury ><

Why is he an idiot because he thinks that we cannot rely on a guy who did his hammy 4 times last year and already once this year. What he says makes sense but I dont necessarily agree.

[st.byron]

The grand final showed just how urgently we need Max in the side. No one else at St Kilda is an above-average spoiler and that probably meant that Tippet could have 6 scoring shots instead of 2 or 3. Most of his marks would have been thumped away if Max was playing and we would have had a comfortable win.

Obviously his injuries are a huge concern, but when Max is fit he should be the first defender picked.

completely agree with this MSG. Max is right up there with the best spoilers in the competition. Time and again Max's fist comes into the picture at the last minute. There aren't many better than him at making a contest and spoiling. Sam Gilbert has the same rangy look about him but he's green yet. When Max is fit, he's an automatic inclusion in my book.

[james rose]

I said the same thing a couple weeks back

love the guy.. but question his value now...

yes great spoiler... but offers nothing on the rebound... and I think the injurys may of made him lose pace

[saint66au]

Anyone who thinks that Max is not in our best 22 should go and look at the caning a 20 y/o kid handed out to Gilbo and Allen on Sat night

Without he and Goose we are still VERY susceptible to key forwards who can take a big contested grab

[rodgerfox]

i really like goose as a player but i think he is an attacking chb rather than a close-checking, spoiling full back.

I don't agree with this.

I think it's a view that has developed over the past year or two. Since Goose battled OP, he hasn't had that closing speed that he had in his first couple of years - 04 in particular.

Not only did Goose prevent his opponent getting the ball themselves, he actually beat them in contests. Outmarked them consistently.

I believe, that Goose's demise due to injury over the 05-07 period is the reason we lost a slight bit of ground.

He is absolutely vital, as he is a brilliant 'stopper' and incredibly damaging aswell - when fit. He's fast, strong, aggressive and a very good footballer.

OP cost him his zip, then his other injuries delayed him getting it back.

Fingers crossed he's ripe to go this year.

[maverick]

i really like goose as a player but i think he is an attacking chb rather than a close-checking, spoiling full back.

I don't agree with this.

I think it's a view that has developed over the past year or two. Since Goose battled OP, he hasn't had that closing speed that he had in his first couple of years - 04 in particular.

Not only did Goose prevent his opponent getting the ball themselves, he actually beat them in contests. Outmarked them consistently.

I believe, that Goose's demise due to injury over the 05-07 period is the reason we lost a slight bit of ground.

He is absolutely vital, as he is a brilliant 'stopper' and incredibly damaging aswell - when fit. He's fast, strong, aggressive and a very good footballer.

OP cost him his zip, then his other injuries delayed him getting it back.

Fingers crossed he's ripe to go this year.

I hope you are right RF, because he needs to play FB not CHB.
S Fisher is the ideal CHB in my book.

[rodgerfox]

I hope you are right RF, because he needs to play FB not CHB.
S Fisher is the ideal CHB in my book.

I think Goose is really, really wasted at FB.

[plugger66]

i really like goose as a player but i think he is an attacking chb rather than a close-checking, spoiling full back.

I don't agree with this.

I think it's a view that has developed over the past year or two. Since Goose battled OP, he hasn't had that closing speed that he had in his first couple of years - 04 in particular.

Not only did Goose prevent his opponent getting the ball themselves, he actually beat them in contests. Outmarked them consistently.

I believe, that Goose's demise due to injury over the 05-07 period is the reason we lost a slight bit of ground.

He is absolutely vital, as he is a brilliant 'stopper' and incredibly damaging aswell - when fit. He's fast, strong, aggressive and a very good footballer.

OP cost him his zip, then his other injuries delayed him getting it back.

Fingers crossed he's ripe to go this year.

I hope you are right RF, because he needs to play FB not CHB.
S Fisher is the ideal CHB in my book.

To slow for FB IMO. He is anatural CHB but does not strike me a genuine FB but can play on the J Brown type who plays between FF and CHF.

[maverick]

i really like goose as a player but i think he is an attacking chb rather than a close-checking, spoiling full back.

I don't agree with this.

I think it's a view that has developed over the past year or two. Since Goose battled OP, he hasn't had that closing speed that he had in his first couple of years - 04 in particular.

Not only did Goose prevent his opponent getting the ball themselves, he actually beat them in contests. Outmarked them consistently.

I believe, that Goose's demise due to injury over the 05-07 period is the reason we lost a slight bit of ground.

He is absolutely vital, as he is a brilliant 'stopper' and incredibly damaging aswell - when fit. He's fast, strong, aggressive and a very good footballer.

OP cost him his zip, then his other injuries delayed him getting it back.

Fingers crossed he's ripe to go this year.

I hope you are right RF, because he needs to play FB not CHB.
S Fisher is the ideal CHB in my book.

To slow for FB IMO. He is anatural CHB but does not strike me a genuine FB but can play on the J Brown type who plays between FF and CHF.

Personally I think he gets lost at CHB on occasion, especially playing on lead up types. He also does not run enough to create options. Both of these things S Fisher is very good at.
I hope Goose succeeds and proves me wrong.

[maverick]

Back on topic, how Robo leaves Milne and M Gardiner out astounds me.
OK maybe Max with injury may struggle, but when fit is in our best 18 until someone can learn to spoil at least.

[bigcarl]

Back on topic, how Robo leaves Milne and M Gardiner out astounds me.
OK maybe Max with injury may struggle, but when fit is in our best 18 until someone can learn to spoil at least.

we would have lost comfortably on saturday night without milne.

he kicked two in the final quarter of a tight, pressure grand final (of sorts) interstate.

we need milne purely and simply because he is a proven avenue to goal in a team that struggled all of last season to put a score on the board.

and m. gardiner was the dominant big man on the ground in that last quarter.

as some of the better journalists do, robbo is probably trying to get people talking ... about him.