We need to play kids FAIR DINKUM

[barks4eva]

We are treading water, wasting time and with the current players and current setup, we are NOT going to challenge.

What is the point in playing safety first for a mid table possie or a position in the bottom half of the eight when the players we are persisting with are NOT up to it.


PLAY THE KIDS

Promote Eddy
Geary
Armitage
Ferguson
Stevens


We have too many slow players, we are a mid table combination at best


All this talk about game plan's is a nonsense, we do NOT have the cattle for the modern game.

Put this line up on the park five years ago and we would be going gangbusters, but in the modern game 2008, we are ordinary.

Time to develop the list, if this means going backwards then so be it, but quite frankly IMHO, it is the quickest way of going forward right now and the ONLY way we will be a genuine contender at some stage in the future.


How much longer will we persist with players like Blake and Fiora, seriously they are both a waste of space.

Gehrig should be dropped, what's the point, seriously he is yestereday's man and we need to take a more long term view and develop the list.

We have too many players with VFL standard skills and in Luke Ball's case metropolitan level skills.

Our elite player Riewoldt's kicking for goal is only 50/50 at best and he's our elite, FAIR DINKUM, Geelong nail them from anywhere at around 80%.

Hayes is our elite midfielder and what he needs is some quick young quality players feeding off him and what does he get, Blake, L.Fisher, Fiora etc... rotating through there and around the play in general and you wonder why we are stuffed.

It's got fricken nothing whatsoever to do with any game plan, I'm sure Lyon wants us to win the hard ball and get it in quick to our tall forwards afterall why the **** would he play three of them if , this wasn't the case.

The absolute knobjockey's on here who babble on about Lyon's game plan would not get the drum even if they had a brass band up them, our problem's have nothing at all to do with any game plan.

The whole problem is we do not have the players for the modern game, we are slow, pedestrian slow and we have too many players with very poor skill levels, and that's just the FACTS.

The problem with Lyon, is he keeps selecting players who will keep us treading water around mid table.

We need to bite the bullet and play the kids, the time is now for wholesale changes, because at best with our current line up, we are not good enough, we are slow and we have too many players with very poor skills.

[BallBanger]

Agree completely but our drafting in the last few years lends us fairly bare on kids to develop...

[brown-coat]

Our list is just a complete mess right now.

It's all over the joint.

[The_Dud]

its not like we have any Rioli's or Palmer's knocking the door down....

Armo is struggling, and i can't even remember who we picked up with our top pick last year....

[Saints Premiers 2008]

still got the core to deliver us to the promised land

2-2 in the first month...big whoop we are still in it

have a litle faith kids

[Saints Premiers 2008]

its not like we have any Rioli's or Palmer's knocking the door down....

Armo is struggling, and i can't even remember who we picked up with our top pick last year....

mcevoy...you know...the ruckman...

[The_Dud]

again, its not the results that are worrying, but the way we're playing...

[The_Dud]

its not like we have any Rioli's or Palmer's knocking the door down....

Armo is struggling, and i can't even remember who we picked up with our top pick last year....

mcevoy...you know...the ruckman...

hows he going? tearing them apart in the Scorps......

[Saints Premiers 2008]

its not like we have any Rioli's or Palmer's knocking the door down....

Armo is struggling, and i can't even remember who we picked up with our top pick last year....

mcevoy...you know...the ruckman...

hows he going? tearing them apart in the Scorps......

yeh but we dont need ruckman...

we will be fine...we could be in much more of a pickle...like carlton, dees, tiges, roos, swans, eagles, freo, dogs, power etc etc apart form geelond

faith people...faith

[Otiman]

We need players with good skill level, especially disposal by foot. None of the guys mentioned above have it.

[Zippy]

I must be about the only person that looks at our list and sees a lot of quality. There's no reason we can't win the flag.

We've got a good enough starting 22 that we can let promising kids like Stevens and Geary develop in the 2's.

[Sobraz]

agree barks, hard calls need to be made... Nothing to do with gameplan or tactics... its all about cattle... Geary and Armo must be in for Fiora and Blake, and X needs to be seriously questioned..

Its the 'fringe' players that set geelong 8 goals apart from us... not the top shelfers... where they have stokes and gamble and kelly, we have fiora, blake etc... Your only as good as your weakest link, and ours are a joke.

[barks4eva]

Agree completely but our drafting in the last few years lends us fairly bare on kids to develop...

Jack Steven's will be a gun, he's only just out of nappies, but FAIR DINKUM, just play him

Armitage was our number 9 selection in the draft

If you're going to draft the kid, then play him, his form in the NAB cup was excellent.

Selwood taken with the previous selection already is a gun with premiership medallion.

The quickest way for Armitage to develop is to actually give him a go and I mean a FAIR DINKUM go, afterall how many games dow e continue to play players with zero skills like Blake for example

Today you only had to look around the ball to see the plethora of quality that Geelong had there and we had Blake, Fiora and L.Fisher running around.

I really feel sorry for Lenny Hayse an absolute gun, but without much support.

Ball goes in and under like no other, but he can't even kick over a fricken jam tin, which just exacerbates the whole lack of skill that we currently have in abundance, when you have Blake running around in these contests.

Promote Eddy, keep playing Geary


FAIR DINKUM if Birss is selected in front of these guys, I'll crack it and I notice that he was an emergency today.

Schnieder out and in comes Jones another player without great skills, at least he has some pace, i suppose but...........................

IN

Geary
Eddy promote from rookie list
Armitage
Stevens
Ferguson

Develop this lot for starters, (McEvoy and Allen to come along at some stage)


OUT

Harvey injured perhaps a blessing, but only if Lyon plays Armitage in his place
Gehrig
Blake
Fiora
Jones


So

Armitage in for Harvey

Ferguson in for Gehrig

Eddy in for Blake

Geary in for Fiora

Stevens in for Jones

5 changes I'd make for this week

[bigred]

Geary
Eddy promote from rookie list
Armitage
Stevens

Agree on those ones...promoting Eddy is an issue...

Gehrig
Blake
Fiora

Agree on those three.

Still...Round four is hella early for a "play the kids" call...

[barks4eva]

Still...Round four is hella early for a "play the kids" call...

Yes it is, if you're throwing in the towel

BUT IMHO

I actually think this is our best shot at being a roughie to challenge this year


otherwise we are just treading water and looking at our THIRD year in a row at mid table, with the same old, same old

FACT is the list and the team needs to be developed and this is happening far too slowly with positions being taken up by slow, ineffectual and poorly skilled players who do not have an upside, we know what we get from them and quite frankly that's SFA

afterall I'm only proposing to drop Blake, Fiora, Gehrig, Jones

ain't too radical really, when you think about it

[SainterX]

In regard to Fraser Gehrig, this has already been said on another thread, but if we take him out then the oppositions best defender goes to Roo or Kosi. There is no doubt he is still important, even if it is just as a roadblock, though I do think he has still got alot to offer

[BallBanger]

Agree completely but our drafting in the last few years lends us fairly bare on kids to develop...

Jack Steven's will be a gun, he's only just out of nappies, but FAIR DINKUM, just play him

Armitage was our number 9 selection in the draft

If you're going to draft the kid, then play him, his form in the NAB cup was excellent.

Selwood taken with the previous selection already is a gun with premiership medallion.

The quickest way for Armitage to develop is to actually give him a go and I mean a FAIR DINKUM go, afterall how many games dow e continue to play players with zero skills like Blake for example

Today you only had to look around the ball to see the plethora of quality that Geelong had there and we had Blake, Fiora and L.Fisher running around.

I really feel sorry for Lenny Hayse an absolute gun, but without much support.

Ball goes in and under like no other, but he can't even kick over a fricken jam tin, which just exacerbates the whole lack of skill that we currently have in abundance, when you have Blake running around in these contests.

Promote Eddy, keep playing Geary


FAIR DINKUM if Birss is selected in front of these guys, I'll crack it and I notice that he was an emergency today.

Schnieder out and in comes Jones another player without great skills, at least he has some pace, i suppose but...........................

IN

Geary
Eddy promote from rookie list
Armitage
Stevens
Ferguson

Develop this lot for starters, (McEvoy and Allen to come along at some stage)


OUT

Harvey injured perhaps a blessing, but only if Lyon plays Armitage in his place
Gehrig
Blake
Fiora
Jones


So

Armitage in for Harvey

Ferguson in for Gehrig

Eddy in for Blake

Geary in for Fiora

Stevens in for Jones

5 changes I'd make for this week

1 more problem child missing...Milne. Surely his brain thinks selfishly/not logged on where team mates are around. Loses too many games wins too few/can't stay on his feet. Runs away from goal to kick across his body when should run straight in and nail/scary pony

[Iceman234]

In regard to Fraser Gehrig, this has already been said on another thread, but if we take him out then the oppositions best defender goes to Roo or Kosi. There is no doubt he is still important, even if it is just as a roadblock, though I do think he has still got alot to offer

Great in theory but doesn't work if his opponent is racking up 24 touches and being voted BOG by the radio commentary team.

[hotdish]

Name a game that Milne has lost for us? The image of Milne kicking away at th e goals and being selfish is about 5 years ago. If you actually watched any AFL games properly or did any research you would see that Milne would be in the top 2-3 in scoring assists on the team.

The press love to portray him as a selfish player. Today he set up a beautiful goal for, I think it was Roo, after centring the ball.

We smashed them in clearances, and were similar in inside 50 entrances. The falldown was at CHF. When Riewoldt plays as a deep forward we lack structure.

ROSS LYON must accept responsibility for the loss - play roo at CHF as the lead up man - we did this in the first quarter and everyone saw the results.

We get Gardiner and Schneider back next week. People need to take a chill pill.

[SainterX]

Great in theory but doesn't work if his opponent is racking up 24 touches and being voted BOG by the radio commentary team

Still better than Kosi having to chase that man, either way if Frase can attract one of the oppositions better defenders it means that Roo will be double instead of triple teamed.

[mad saint guy]

OUT:
Dal Santo - Should get a massive kick up the arse post match that keeps him out for a week, and scares him into actually running during the game so no one can do it again.
Dempster - Completely useless.
Jones - Good for one tackle, a one-percenter per, 5-6 fumbles and 2-3 direct turnovers per game. Not up to it.
Blake - Has gone backwards. Unless he is playing at his absolute best he shouldn't get a game.

IN:
Armitage - He's got skill, he gets plenty of the ball, he kicks goals and he's got a bit of mongrel. Was playing great footy in the NAB cup and should have been in the side in round one.
Geary - Will be a quality player for us for many years and should not have been dropped
M.Gardiner - Our best ruckman
C.Gardiner - Allows Riewoldt to play closer to goal since Kosi clearly should move to defence

We really aren't that good, but this side should be able to beat a depleted Essendon

B: Maguire, Hudghton, Geary
HB: L.Fisher, S.Fisher, Koschitzke
C: Gram, Hayes, X.Clarke
HF: Armitage, Riewoldt, C.Gardiner
F: Milne, Gehrig, Ball

Foll: M.Gardiner, Montagna, Goddard
Int: Gilbert, Fiora, Harvey, King

In general I agree with the "play the kids" theory, but right now the only two kids we've got who wouldn't embarrass themselves are Armo and Geary. Eddy could be playing if he was on the senior list and Steven could play regularly next year, but right now we don't have much.

It's very early, but some changes at the end of the year will be welcome
OUT: Gehrig, Harvey, Jones, Dempster, Rix, Ferguson, Gwilt
IN: Pace, skill

[Iceman234]

Great in theory but doesn't work if his opponent is racking up 24 touches and being voted BOG by the radio commentary team

Still better than Kosi having to chase that man, either way if Frase can attract one of the oppositions better defenders it means that Roo will be double instead of triple teamed.

I have no solution and as I said it's great in theory, but when it comes to looking up "accountable defensive forward" in the dictionary I can't find Fraser's pic.

We can't say whether Kosi would have let Scarlett run riot all day, but we can't say he wouldn't have either.

I would suggest the Cats stay with Scarlett on G because they know he can not only consistently beat him, but he can run off him and set play up positively.

History shows it, why would they want to change it? So we should change it next time, not let them dictate.

[The_Dud]

Great in theory but doesn't work if his opponent is racking up 24 touches and being voted BOG by the radio commentary team

Still better than Kosi having to chase that man, either way if Frase can attract one of the oppositions better defenders it means that Roo will be double instead of triple teamed.

I have no solution and as I said it's great in theory, but when it comes to looking up "accountable defensive forward" in the dictionary I can't find Fraser's pic.

We can't say whether Kosi would have let Scarlett run riot all day, but we can't say he wouldn't have either.

I would suggest the Cats stay with Scarlett on G because they know he can not only consistently beat him, but he can run off him and set play up positively.

History shows it, why would they want to change it? So we should change it next time, not let them dictate.

in the last quarter, Scarlett was playing on Kosi, and i saw him get a possession up near his forward 50, with Kosi struggling 20 meters behind him....

if the umpires had have been doing their job fairly, Gehrig would have kicked 4 or 5 goals today

was always going to be the scapegoat unless he kicked 6-7 goals, which was never gonna happen

Kosi - 3 goals, Roo - 3 goals, G - 2 goals

i think he's doing his job as the third forward, also taking the number one defender

[Iceman234]

Unfortunately G's second goal was after the final siren, when we were down by 48 and the game was done and dusted an hour earlier. Prior to that that he was beaten mercilessly by Scarlett.

Umpires didn't lose us this game, we did. G should have kicked 5, 6 7 etc etc. - he didn't....

G gets flogged against quality, as much as I have loved him over the years, he only stands up against poor defences.

He should fly a much tougher flag than he does for us. If it's just for one year, start taking over some physicality role that's been missing for so long at the Saints.

I also saw Scarlett blistering through the midfield at one stage, very early on (not when the game was over - maybe early 3rd) and G was about 50 metres away on our half forward flank jogging.

Yeah he takes a quality back, but that quality back slaughtered him today and set up far too much of Geelong's play.

[The_Dud]

who knows, maybe G was told to play "russian roulette" and try catch Scarlett out on the rebound

i'm sticking to the theory that all our forwards will be more effective if the delivery into the forward line was half decent

its been deplorable all season