Gram V Guerra

[St Fidelius]

Yes Gram has done well for us and no matter what I say he is with the Saints

but, why the F*** did we delist Guerra and in the same year draft Gram??

Guerra has a far better kick to position and has less errors in his disposals and is also better in tackling...

Gram kicks the occasional goal, but that means nothing when a good deal of his disposals result in turn overs and goals to the opposition.

This year Gram has averaged 14.3 disposals and 6 marks

This year Guerra has averaged 20.5 disposals and 6.3 marks

Again many of Gram's disposals result in turnovers and a good deal of them result in goals ......

Most of Guerra's disposals result in a Hawks possession and goals to the Hawks...

Very poor decision in dropping Guerra and getting nothing for him IMO

Gram is good, but not as good as Guerra IMO, a player we let go for nothing

[battye]

I would have liked to have kept Guerra, but at the time his delisting didn't seem all that unexpected. Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing?

[Pilgram]

gram has hair





















of his own.
its all about the hair

[degruch]

Guerra was terrible the season before we delisted him...this forum must have been ablaze with comments about recycled players (which Gram is too, of course). Can't really take a gamble with these guys. Besides, if Guerra was playing for Melbourne this year, he'd look decidedly less 'spectacular'.

[doggerel]

In retrospect, he was played out of position. We always had him at forward pocket. SOme useful performances but that is it. Kudos to Clarkson for reinventing him in the backline.

[felixleo]

gram has hair





















of his own.
its all about the hair

And you say my statements are ridiculous.

[mad saint guy]

but, why the F*** did we delist Guerra and in the same year draft Gram??

We recruited them both in the off season of 2003.

This year Gram has averaged 14.3 disposals and 6 marks

This year Guerra has averaged 20.5 disposals and 6.3 marks

Gram has averaged 20.5 disposals, Guerra 20.4 disposals.

[St Fidelius]

In retrospect, he was played out of position. We always had him at forward pocket. SOme useful performances but that is it. Kudos to Clarkson for reinventing him in the backline.

agreed...

a great kick to position and yes my comments are in retrospect...

I would love to know just how many goals Gram is responible for in goals against, and maybe Champion Data can provide those stats.

IMO Gram has done more for the opposition by way of goals from disposals than Guerra and Guerra has had more goal assists than Gram.

Hawks have a nack of getting it right come draft time and our loss is their gain IMO

Guerra much tougher at the contest and a greater kick to position that Gram..

IMO anyone who can run and have no accountability on their opponent can play the same role as Gram...

Even CJ can do the same IMO

[linz]

Thomo didn't like Guerra.

[fonz_#15]

gram has kicked 20 goals this season, that makes him in the top 6 at the club.

[St Fidelius]

gram has kicked 20 goals this season, that makes him in the top 6 at the club.

yeah, but just how many goals has he conceded in both turn overs and kicks by his direct opponent ???

His job is not kicking goals IMO, his job is firstly being responsible on his opponents possessions and then his kicking...

His kicking to position this year was woeful IMO

Yes he has kicked goals but his disposal to position is what I am questioning..

Guerra, has been a great player in that regards and many of his disposals have resulted in goals, and his direct opponent has done little, and we let him go for nothing..

Gram IMO will not improve on that area as Guerra has always been a good kick..

I am just spitting chips that we let a good player go and we picked up a player that many can do (if you are a good runner)

The point is that Gram is a sh1t kick to position

[Life Long Saint]

Guerra doesn't go hard enough at a contest when he can't snipe.

When he is caught he plays "possum" and just lays on the ball...he was doing it consistently in his last season for us.

I'm generally happy with our back six and wouldn't want Guerra back.

[perfectionist]

here are Guerra's stats in finals for both PA and us:
8,4,6,9,7,2,2,2,1 - total of three goals in nine games. Don't think the call was too soon.

I'd also wait till next week to see if the move is one of coaching brilliance.

[degruch]

Guerra doesn't go hard enough at a contest when he can't snipe.

When he is caught he plays "possum" and just lays on the ball...he was doing it consistently in his last season for us.

I'm generally happy with our back six and wouldn't want Guerra back.

Guerra played up forward for us generally.

[Life Long Saint]

Guerra doesn't go hard enough at a contest when he can't snipe.

When he is caught he plays "possum" and just lays on the ball...he was doing it consistently in his last season for us.

I'm generally happy with our back six and wouldn't want Guerra back.

Guerra played up forward for us generally.

The OP is comparing Gram to Guerra who plays as a half-back flanker now.

[St Fidelius]

Guerra doesn't go hard enough at a contest when he can't snipe.

When he is caught he plays "possum" and just lays on the ball...he was doing it consistently in his last season for us.

I'm generally happy with our back six and wouldn't want Guerra back.

Guerra played up forward for us generally.

The OP is comparing Gram to Guerra who plays as a half-back flanker now.

Thank you and spot on..

Gram to me is the most marketable as far as trade bait is concerned..

Yes, gets possessions and kicks some goals but his disposals,on the main result in costly turnovers..

Most will disagree, but as far as trade bait for a player that disposals verses effectiveness is concerned ...

a good trade bait IMO

[degruch]

Guerra doesn't go hard enough at a contest when he can't snipe.

When he is caught he plays "possum" and just lays on the ball...he was doing it consistently in his last season for us.

I'm generally happy with our back six and wouldn't want Guerra back.

Guerra played up forward for us generally.

The OP is comparing Gram to Guerra who plays as a half-back flanker now.

Thank you and spot on..

Gram to me is the most marketable as far as trade bait is concerned..

Yes, gets possessions and kicks some goals but his disposals,on the main result in costly turnovers..

Most will disagree, but as far as trade bait for a player that disposals verses effectiveness is concerned ...

a good trade bait IMO

Apples with apples kids. This started as a hypothetical, and is getting moreso by the moment, isn't it? We'll never know if Gram would be better than Guerra in the same position, so how can you compare the two?

We just signed Gram up for 3 years, he ain't goin' nowhere.

[The_Merchant]

Yes Gram has done well for us and no matter what I say he is with the Saints

but, why the F*** did we delist Guerra and in the same year draft Gram??

Guerra has a far better kick to position and has less errors in his disposals and is also better in tackling...

Gram kicks the occasional goal, but that means nothing when a good deal of his disposals result in turn overs and goals to the opposition.

This year Gram has averaged 14.3 disposals and 6 marks

This year Guerra has averaged 20.5 disposals and 6.3 marks

Again many of Gram's disposals result in turnovers and a good deal of them result in goals ......

Most of Guerra's disposals result in a Hawks possession and goals to the Hawks...

Very poor decision in dropping Guerra and getting nothing for him IMO

Gram is good, but not as good as Guerra IMO, a player we let go for nothing

Would take Gram over Guerra any day of the week. Where did you get the disposals stat. Gram has had 454 disposals this year, Guerra 371. Most of Guerras disposals this year have been nothing kicks around half back. Not even close to the player Gram is.

[St Fidelius]

Guerra doesn't go hard enough at a contest when he can't snipe.

When he is caught he plays "possum" and just lays on the ball...he was doing it consistently in his last season for us.

I'm generally happy with our back six and wouldn't want Guerra back.

Guerra played up forward for us generally.

The OP is comparing Gram to Guerra who plays as a half-back flanker now.

Thank you and spot on..

Gram to me is the most marketable as far as trade bait is concerned..

Yes, gets possessions and kicks some goals but his disposals,on the main result in costly turnovers..

Most will disagree, but as far as trade bait for a player that disposals verses effectiveness is concerned ...

a good trade bait IMO

Apples with apples kids. This started as a hypothetical, and is getting moreso by the moment, isn't it? We'll never know if Gram would be better than Guerra in the same position, so how can you compare the two?

We just signed Gram up for 3 years, he ain't goin' nowhere.

pity, because he ain't going now where as a footballer IMO..

can't kick to position and his many of his disposals results in turn overs...

Pity we let go of Guerra, his disposals are more damaging and result in less turn overs

[degruch]

Apples with apples kids. This started as a hypothetical, and is getting moreso by the moment, isn't it? We'll never know if Gram would be better than Guerra in the same position, so how can you compare the two?

We just signed Gram up for 3 years, he ain't goin' nowhere.

pity, because he ain't going now where as a footballer IMO..

can't kick to position and his many of his disposals results in turn overs...

Pity we let go of Guerra, his disposals are more damaging and result in less turn overs

Oh yeah, I agree with you there...but I don't miss Guerra, not sure how comparible they are either. Guerra is definately the better kick, but rarely under as much pressure, thanks to their excellent midfield. Gram looks shittier than he probably is, thanks to those ridiculous up-and-under nothing kicks to our forward line (rather, our opposition backline). But he's nearly as game-winner on a good day...look what he did to Jubb against Carlton late this year, do you think Guerra could do that?

[St Fidelius]

Apples with apples kids. This started as a hypothetical, and is getting moreso by the moment, isn't it? We'll never know if Gram would be better than Guerra in the same position, so how can you compare the two?

We just signed Gram up for 3 years, he ain't goin' nowhere.

pity, because he ain't going now where as a footballer IMO..

can't kick to position and his many of his disposals results in turn overs...

Pity we let go of Guerra, his disposals are more damaging and result in less turn overs

Oh yeah, I agree with you there...but I don't miss Guerra, not sure how comparible they are either. Guerra is definately the better kick, but rarely under as much pressure, thanks to their excellent midfield. Gram looks shittier than he probably is, thanks to those ridiculous up-and-under nothing kicks to our forward line (rather, our opposition backline). But he's nearly as game-winner on a good day...look what he did to Jubb against Carlton late this year, do you think Guerra could do that?

Yep, bit I just wonder how much we are paying Gram compared to how much Hawthorn are paying Guerra...

and really I feel we have lost out BIG time IMO

Again, I would like to see the stats on just how many goals conceeded and how many goals assist re Gram V Guerra

having in mind that I feel we are paying more money for Gram than the Hawks are for Guerra

[The_Merchant]

Why does everyone get so worked up about how much we are paying for players. Does it really matter? We are paying them as much as other teams are willing to pay to get them off us. Where did you get the previous stats on disposals, as Gram is averaging more than Guerra. As for goals conceded, it is pretty rare for Guerra to actually man up on a player, thus the number of disposals he gets.

[clarky449]

Hes prob laughing on hes high horse now he is in the grand final

[SAINT JUMP]

cj has had a good season st f why why does everyone have to put shyte on him. pity some stars dont have his hunger.

[St Fidelius]

Why does everyone get so worked up about how much we are paying for players. Does it really matter? We are paying them as much as other teams are willing to pay to get them off us. Where did you get the previous stats on disposals, as Gram is averaging more than Guerra. As for goals conceded, it is pretty rare for Guerra to actually man up on a player, thus the number of disposals he gets.

Are you directing you post to me??

If so can you please quote me in future

My mistake ...

they both average the same disposals per match...

you say it pretty rare that Guerra mans up on a player, the same goes with Gram IMO

The kicking to position is the key and Guerra wins hands down IMO and provides more goals to the side the Gram IMO

Gram = more turn overs = goals to opposition

Guerra = more direct passes to the forwards which result in goals..and less turn overs

Gram would be paid far more than Guerra...

Win to Hawthorn IMO

We got rid of him for nothing