I am so pissed off at the typical gutless and "unmanly" (apparently the new catch word from hard hitting lawyers) response from our board.
Butterss and Co got booted for something similiar (or the final straw).
When - on when will our club finally stand up for the integrity of one of its players?
Stuff us, we are only fans, don't care really, but when one of your players is constantly attacked and you do SFA about it, it shows that you care more for your own skin.
Did nothing when the Farmer incident cost him SEVEN weeks for something nobody saw, and a Fremantle trainer LIED about.
The admin did nothing to protect Baker then, Completely squibbed it.
No we have this Nettlefold character with a typical pissweak statement last night.
Steven Baker has been hung drawn and quartered by this administration, just like he was the last administration.
Seems like these lily livered shrinking violets who pretend to have the best interests of the club at heart haven't the cajones to defend their player.
Not happy to seem him singled out by an incompetent and corrupt MRP, they sit on their hands and let he get humiliated and his personal integrity abused and insulted by some slim hipped effette gutter crawling lawyer (who just so happens to represent the AFL).
Grow some balls - you are gutless and pathetic. Show the players that you actually will look out for them and protect them just not roll over like a bunch of timmid yes men.
Wouldn't blame Baker or any player if they walked away from this bunch of gutless wimps.
Where is their integrity?
Our Admin are gutless
Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators
Our Admin are gutless
Lance or James??
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
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St DAC
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A dissenting view ...
Baker did the wrong thing 3 out of 4 times IMO. The penalty was too harsh admittedly, but you can't deny he punched SJ three times. It was at the minor end of the scale, and the MRP system produced an outlandish penalty, but for three separate offences, and with his record, it was always going to be a big whack.
He definitely was shafted on the hand-punch thing IMO. But such if life; in essence, what they accused him of was really what he was doing even if you take the view (as I do) that if you are on the field you are 100% fit.
So do we go to the mat for a 2 week penalty, jeopardising our genuine chance of a flag this year for the remote chance of gaining Baker a minor reprieve?
Not in my view. We had a crack last night, lost, time to cut our losses and concentrate on the next match.
Baker did the wrong thing 3 out of 4 times IMO. The penalty was too harsh admittedly, but you can't deny he punched SJ three times. It was at the minor end of the scale, and the MRP system produced an outlandish penalty, but for three separate offences, and with his record, it was always going to be a big whack.
He definitely was shafted on the hand-punch thing IMO. But such if life; in essence, what they accused him of was really what he was doing even if you take the view (as I do) that if you are on the field you are 100% fit.
So do we go to the mat for a 2 week penalty, jeopardising our genuine chance of a flag this year for the remote chance of gaining Baker a minor reprieve?
Not in my view. We had a crack last night, lost, time to cut our losses and concentrate on the next match.
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Dr Spaceman
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As angry as I am about this whole thing, I’m prepared to cut the club a bit of slack.
Let’s face it, we are not privy to all the evidence or legal opinions.
While we all want to defend our players the fact is Bakes did the things he was done for. It’s all on camera.
THERE ARE legitimate questions about why the umps didn’t step in with either a free kick or a report.
THERE ARE legitimate questions about the severity of the penalties.
THERE ARE legitimate questions about why others haven’t previously been penalised.
THERE ARE legitimate questions about Tinhead’s inflammatory comments.
However there are no doubts that Bakes did what he did.
Therefore it’s not as simple as just going to war with the AFL to clear his name. It’s a bit trickier than that, however I’ll back the club to seriously consider their response and to take the best action taking into account all the issues (the club, the player, our 2010 campaign etc)
Let’s face it, we are not privy to all the evidence or legal opinions.
While we all want to defend our players the fact is Bakes did the things he was done for. It’s all on camera.
THERE ARE legitimate questions about why the umps didn’t step in with either a free kick or a report.
THERE ARE legitimate questions about the severity of the penalties.
THERE ARE legitimate questions about why others haven’t previously been penalised.
THERE ARE legitimate questions about Tinhead’s inflammatory comments.
However there are no doubts that Bakes did what he did.
Therefore it’s not as simple as just going to war with the AFL to clear his name. It’s a bit trickier than that, however I’ll back the club to seriously consider their response and to take the best action taking into account all the issues (the club, the player, our 2010 campaign etc)
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bigred
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I agree with the OP.
And why is it, that they can appear to be so "legally sound" when dealing with matters such as the Lovett issues yet so blatantly incompetent when it comes to the freaking tribunal.
Put the house on it that they will come out with some pea-heart statement on how they have decided not to persue anything.
40,000 members these guys answer to. 40,000 of us. And they are failing every one of us.
Appears that they are frightened to stand on some toes.
Lindsay Fox was the last president that had the stones to stand up to their poorly structured rules.
Harden up St.Kilda. Sick of being the AFL's bitch.
I dont doubt that Baker hit the bloke...it is the severity of his punishment in direct comparison with recent and similar reports or non reports.
Back your player ffs.
And why is it, that they can appear to be so "legally sound" when dealing with matters such as the Lovett issues yet so blatantly incompetent when it comes to the freaking tribunal.
Put the house on it that they will come out with some pea-heart statement on how they have decided not to persue anything.
40,000 members these guys answer to. 40,000 of us. And they are failing every one of us.
Appears that they are frightened to stand on some toes.
Lindsay Fox was the last president that had the stones to stand up to their poorly structured rules.
Harden up St.Kilda. Sick of being the AFL's bitch.
I dont doubt that Baker hit the bloke...it is the severity of his punishment in direct comparison with recent and similar reports or non reports.
Back your player ffs.
Last edited by bigred on Wed 30 Jun 2010 11:19am, edited 1 time in total.
"Now the ball is loose, it gives St. Kilda a rough chance. Black. Good handpass. Voss. Schwarze now, the defender, can run and from a long way".....
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maverick
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Agree they answer to us, but on premierships nothing else.
I feel sorry for Bakes, he is the one jibbed not us, something not reportable 4 rounds ago now is???
Going back to the Fox era when we couldn't win a game is not what we want surely???
I would love the admin to come out and take them to court, but how would that affect the playing group? How far does the corruption go? Would we get more reportable instances come up magically, would the umps turn on us like they did back in the GT days? Would the AFL screw us on the final draw and the R22 draw?
It is BS no doubt, and we should be piissed off behind the scenes but publically, I believe, we unfortunately need to toe the line.
If we weren't equal top, its a different story.
I feel sorry for Bakes, he is the one jibbed not us, something not reportable 4 rounds ago now is???
Going back to the Fox era when we couldn't win a game is not what we want surely???
I would love the admin to come out and take them to court, but how would that affect the playing group? How far does the corruption go? Would we get more reportable instances come up magically, would the umps turn on us like they did back in the GT days? Would the AFL screw us on the final draw and the R22 draw?
It is BS no doubt, and we should be piissed off behind the scenes but publically, I believe, we unfortunately need to toe the line.
If we weren't equal top, its a different story.
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Stillwaiting
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I do feel very sorry for Bakes, and I hope the club can do something, I tend to agree that we have copped it a few times from the AFL and media with no response
But the timing is so poor that it would distract the team from there tilt at the flag.
For this reason iI dont think much will be done and I am sure Bakes would understand that, after all he has been copping it for the team for years now and I bet he would do it one more time for the flag
But the timing is so poor that it would distract the team from there tilt at the flag.
For this reason iI dont think much will be done and I am sure Bakes would understand that, after all he has been copping it for the team for years now and I bet he would do it one more time for the flag
I love this club
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OneEyedSainter77
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Wrong. there are 40,000 people who have paid some sum of money to the club, but the St Kilda football club consists of more than just 40,000 supporters. Just because they haven't parted with their hard-earned doesn't give mean they haven't been let down too.bigred wrote:Agreed.
And why is it, that they can appear to be so "legally sound" when dealing with matters such as the Lovett issues yet so blatantly incompetent when it comes to the freaking tribunal.
Put the house on it that they will come out with some pea-heart statement on how they have decided not to persue anything.
40,000 members these guys answer to. 40,000 of us. And they are failing every one of us.
Appears that they are frightened to stand on some toes.
Lindsay Fox was the last president that had the stones to stand up to their poorly structured rules.
Harden up St.Kilda. Sick of being the AFL's bitch.
Either way, it is disappointing and I suppose i can see why some people would be tired of this but let's not let this derail our season and distract us - I want to just focus on the rest of the season from now.
Unfinished business and all that!
Last edited by OneEyedSainter77 on Wed 30 Jun 2010 11:27am, edited 1 time in total.
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bigred
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The win/loss at the time has nothing to do with it.Going back to the Fox era when we couldn't win a game is not what we want surely???
The player transfer rules at the time were restrictive and Fox had the balls to challenge the then VFL over them with Foschini and Morwood.
My point is that he wasnt afraid to have a crack and look after the best interests of the club.
And they answer to us on all fronts, not just onfield performance.
"Now the ball is loose, it gives St. Kilda a rough chance. Black. Good handpass. Voss. Schwarze now, the defender, can run and from a long way".....
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degruch
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The previous admin buggered up by not taking the 2007 decision further, which we absolutely should have. Take the loading out of the equation, and the ridiculous 4th charge, and it's not looking so bad. Baker was hung out to dry by Buttarse and co, our current admin really only needs to pursue further action on one charge, to reduce the total suspension by 2 weeks. Is it worth it? Maybe.
As someone pointed out on here last week, if we do make a big deal of this, every single minor contact by a Saints player will result in a suspension...admittedly, not much different to how it is now, but will make life hard for us. For the non-conspiracy theorists, this must be a black day, eh?
As someone pointed out on here last week, if we do make a big deal of this, every single minor contact by a Saints player will result in a suspension...admittedly, not much different to how it is now, but will make life hard for us. For the non-conspiracy theorists, this must be a black day, eh?
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bigred
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I'm still fired up as I have been copping endless shyte at work this morning....
My main issue is that the club just appear weak...feeble even.
Their record with Tribunal challenges is a joke. Absolute joke.
And you can just tell that they will go away quietly this time as well.
There is no doubt in my mind that Baker should have copped a few weeks. But not nine and definitely not twelve.
These blokes are in positions to represent us and they are failing at this side of the business.
Can they at least restrict all access to players to the bare mandatory minimum.....or something.
DO SOMETHING! ....
Agreed. Starting to believe that this group will never be knocked off their path.Either way, it is disappointing and I suppose i can see why some people would be tired of this but let's not let this derail our season and distract us - I want to just focus on the rest of the season from now.
My main issue is that the club just appear weak...feeble even.
Their record with Tribunal challenges is a joke. Absolute joke.
And you can just tell that they will go away quietly this time as well.
There is no doubt in my mind that Baker should have copped a few weeks. But not nine and definitely not twelve.
These blokes are in positions to represent us and they are failing at this side of the business.
Can they at least restrict all access to players to the bare mandatory minimum.....or something.
DO SOMETHING! ....
"Now the ball is loose, it gives St. Kilda a rough chance. Black. Good handpass. Voss. Schwarze now, the defender, can run and from a long way".....
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SteveStevens66
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I think there is room to accommodate the views of Joffaboy and St.Dac on this. To start with St.Dac's view that Baker did the wrong thing 3 out of 4 times. Fair enough. Do the club appear to be weak, having basically abandoned SB, as Joffaboy contends? Yes. But the real issue is that Bakes is out for as long as he is because of the loading, especially from the farce that was the Jeff Farmer suspension. Not only was that unfair and corrupt but the club was pathetically inept. This is all to say that even if he did the wrong thing THIS time, he is paying such a heavy and unfair price because of (a) what the MRP did to him with Farmer and (b) the gutless and incompetent performance by the club at that time. The bottom line is that the club has let Baker (and us) down, either with Farmer or with Johnson. Some might say at both times.
As for Nettlefold, who someone mentioned, I recently wrote to him suggesting the club put out a Stephen Milne highlights video in recognition of his 200th game. I mentioned that it was the right thing to do for such club champion and that it would also sell like hotcakes. He never even had the courtesy to respond. I mention this because anyone who thinks that the club answers to us, the 40,000 members, is really deluding themselves. Sad but true.
As for Nettlefold, who someone mentioned, I recently wrote to him suggesting the club put out a Stephen Milne highlights video in recognition of his 200th game. I mentioned that it was the right thing to do for such club champion and that it would also sell like hotcakes. He never even had the courtesy to respond. I mention this because anyone who thinks that the club answers to us, the 40,000 members, is really deluding themselves. Sad but true.
Carna Saints!!!
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TazzieSaintGirl83
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It just angers me so much that they choose now and us to make an example. The punishment doesnt fit the crime. How can they expect us not to react with rage when they have let similar incidents slide.
It feels like damned if you do and damned if you dont. I hate the club being perceived as soft but I dont want "extra special attention" if we do make noise about this.
It feels like damned if you do and damned if you dont. I hate the club being perceived as soft but I dont want "extra special attention" if we do make noise about this.
100% Sainter Girl Through and Through
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degruch
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Bakes didn't belt anyone the week before. You're referring to Roo II whacking Pears' hand (in a manly fashion, apparently)?TazzieSaintGirl83 wrote:It just angers me so much that they choose now and us to make an example. The punishment doesnt fit the crime. How can they expect us not to react with rage when they have let similar incidents slide.
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TazzieSaintGirl83
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yeah I know Bakes didnt wack anyone the round before. I was referring in paritcular to the incident with Jack Riewoldtdegruch wrote:Bakes didn't belt anyone the week before. You're referring to Roo II whacking Pears' hand (in a manly fashion, apparently)?TazzieSaintGirl83 wrote:It just angers me so much that they choose now and us to make an example. The punishment doesnt fit the crime. How can they expect us not to react with rage when they have let similar incidents slide.
I did try to be impartial about this but I just cant. I know I have a saints tinted view but I feel we are copping it raw at the moment.
Last edited by TazzieSaintGirl83 on Wed 30 Jun 2010 11:53am, edited 1 time in total.
100% Sainter Girl Through and Through
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maverick
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I reckon it does have an effect on win/loss, they get too focused on the BS and not on the true target.bigred wrote:The win/loss at the time has nothing to do with it.Going back to the Fox era when we couldn't win a game is not what we want surely???
The player transfer rules at the time were restrictive and Fox had the balls to challenge the then VFL over them with Foschini and Morwood.
My point is that he wasnt afraid to have a crack and look after the best interests of the club.
And they answer to us on all fronts, not just onfield performance.
And my point is, the best interest of the club is to win a flag, and support the players, who win the flag.
The club doesn't operate without members no doubt, but I would have thought each and every member would want a flag over a moral win against the corrupt AFL.
And yes IMO, right now you can't have both.
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degruch
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Yes, it is annoying...and convenient. How convenient also that precedent cannot be used as a defense. Crooked bunch of pricks.TazzieSaintGirl83 wrote:yeah I know Bakes didnt wack anyone the round before. I was referring in paritcular to the incident with Jack Riewoldtdegruch wrote:Bakes didn't belt anyone the week before. You're referring to Roo II whacking Pears' hand (in a manly fashion, apparently)?TazzieSaintGirl83 wrote:It just angers me so much that they choose now and us to make an example. The punishment doesnt fit the crime. How can they expect us not to react with rage when they have let similar incidents slide.
Anyway, as I mentioned, 2007 is the root of this issue, and the current admin can't do much about that.
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TazzieSaintGirl83
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yeah too true that bloody loading was a killer!!!degruch wrote:Yes, it is annoying...and convenient. How convenient also that precedent cannot be used as a defense. Crooked bunch of pricks.TazzieSaintGirl83 wrote:yeah I know Bakes didnt wack anyone the round before. I was referring in paritcular to the incident with Jack Riewoldtdegruch wrote:Bakes didn't belt anyone the week before. You're referring to Roo II whacking Pears' hand (in a manly fashion, apparently)?TazzieSaintGirl83 wrote:It just angers me so much that they choose now and us to make an example. The punishment doesnt fit the crime. How can they expect us not to react with rage when they have let similar incidents slide.
Anyway, as I mentioned, 2007 is the root of this issue, and the current admin can't do much about that.
100% Sainter Girl Through and Through
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rodgerfox
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I have two real issues with this.
1) We're going to miss Bakes as a player. I really think we will. There's been a lot of talk on here about 'bottom 6' and 'top 6' players - Bakes for mine is very, very close to be being a 'top 6' player for us. What he brings to the table is very difficult to replace.
2) I'm really puzzled as to why the press and the footy public are saying that an example is being made of Bakes to make a statement that these type of tactics won't be tolerated.
Isn't the MRP 'totally independent'? Does this mean that the MRP are making a statement? And if so, how the **** does that happen? How can these independent bodies just suddenly decide mid-season to make statements about how the game is played???
And if it isn't the MRP making the statement, who is it? If it's the AFL, then how the **** can it be said that the MRP is totally independent if they're being giving specific directives from the AFL for a specific case??
It really is the most pathetic sporting 'competition' in the world. It's just a choreographed and corrupt farce.
1) We're going to miss Bakes as a player. I really think we will. There's been a lot of talk on here about 'bottom 6' and 'top 6' players - Bakes for mine is very, very close to be being a 'top 6' player for us. What he brings to the table is very difficult to replace.
2) I'm really puzzled as to why the press and the footy public are saying that an example is being made of Bakes to make a statement that these type of tactics won't be tolerated.
Isn't the MRP 'totally independent'? Does this mean that the MRP are making a statement? And if so, how the **** does that happen? How can these independent bodies just suddenly decide mid-season to make statements about how the game is played???
And if it isn't the MRP making the statement, who is it? If it's the AFL, then how the **** can it be said that the MRP is totally independent if they're being giving specific directives from the AFL for a specific case??
It really is the most pathetic sporting 'competition' in the world. It's just a choreographed and corrupt farce.
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markp
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People need to just suck it up, I'm afraid.
This is not a democracy! The AFL is more like the mafia, AD is the Godfather... and we are just one of many (not so powerful) families.
Bakes got out of line one time too many, and was whacked by the big bosses as an example to others... we can either seek retribution and create a rod for our own backs, or we can get on with business and try to work our way up the totem pole.
If you expect 'fair', you're screwed.
Flags=money=power.
This is not a democracy! The AFL is more like the mafia, AD is the Godfather... and we are just one of many (not so powerful) families.
Bakes got out of line one time too many, and was whacked by the big bosses as an example to others... we can either seek retribution and create a rod for our own backs, or we can get on with business and try to work our way up the totem pole.
If you expect 'fair', you're screwed.
Flags=money=power.
Last edited by markp on Wed 30 Jun 2010 11:57am, edited 1 time in total.
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TazzieSaintGirl83
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jonesy
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We're in a loss/loss situation.
We either be reamed up the a$$ like we are now and take it without a whimper,or we stand up to the corruption,but then we will be dealt every harsh card possible as a consequence,therefore we will need to be extra good to overcome the added hurdles they place on us.
Can't beat them. The only way the AFL with ever change there ways is if people stop going. This is never going to happen in Melbourne. The passion is entrenched in us,the winters are cold,days are short,there is nothing else to do ,but go to the footy.
If people voted by not going then they will listen. However in the meantime you are only hurting your own clubs gate takings.
Can't win
We either be reamed up the a$$ like we are now and take it without a whimper,or we stand up to the corruption,but then we will be dealt every harsh card possible as a consequence,therefore we will need to be extra good to overcome the added hurdles they place on us.
Can't beat them. The only way the AFL with ever change there ways is if people stop going. This is never going to happen in Melbourne. The passion is entrenched in us,the winters are cold,days are short,there is nothing else to do ,but go to the footy.
If people voted by not going then they will listen. However in the meantime you are only hurting your own clubs gate takings.
Can't win
Bring back the Lockett era
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degruch
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Well, they decided to make a statement last year in regard to Zac's charge, only problem was that the statement wasn't accommodated by the rules. Everyone in this entire AFL chain wants to make their mark on the game, whether appropriate or not.rodgerfox wrote:2) I'm really puzzled as to why the press and the footy public are saying that an example is being made of Bakes to make a statement that these type of tactics won't be tolerated.
Isn't the MRP 'totally independent'? Does this mean that the MRP are making a statement?
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rodgerfox
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That's why I opted out a few years ago.markp wrote:People need to just suck it up, I'm afraid.
This is not a democracy! The AFL is more like the mafia, AD is the Godfather... and we are just one of many (not so powerful) families.
Bakes got out of line one time too many, and was whacked by the big bosses as an example to others... we can either seek retribution and create a rod for our own backs, or we can get on with business and try to work our way up the totem pole.
If you expect 'fair', you're screwed.
Flags=money=power.
Once it became as you described above, and no longer a competition, it just wasn't for me. If I wanted entertainment that was choreographed for ratings and money revenue, I'd watch the wrestling or go and see a movie - at least they have happy endings.
The only thing that has left me any interest whatsoever, has been the Saints. Nowhere what it used to be like, but an interest nonetheless.
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degruch
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Maybe try horse racing?rodgerfox wrote:That's why I opted out a few years ago.markp wrote:People need to just suck it up, I'm afraid.
This is not a democracy! The AFL is more like the mafia, AD is the Godfather... and we are just one of many (not so powerful) families.
Bakes got out of line one time too many, and was whacked by the big bosses as an example to others... we can either seek retribution and create a rod for our own backs, or we can get on with business and try to work our way up the totem pole.
If you expect 'fair', you're screwed.
Flags=money=power.
Once it became as you described above, and no longer a competition, it just wasn't for me. If I wanted entertainment that was choreographed for ratings and money revenue, I'd watch the wrestling or go and see a movie - at least they have happy endings.
The only thing that has left me any interest whatsoever, has been the Saints. Nowhere what it used to be like, but an interest nonetheless.