Matthew Drain Gone- confirmed

[saintly]

In the herald sun today sorry cannot get the article on line

it was stated that matthew drain is leaving the club at the end of the season

[hotdish]

http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,865 ... 51,00.html

"Meanwhile, another member of Ross Lyon's football department is preparing to leave St Kilda. The club's head of list management and recruiting Matthew Drain has informed the Saints he will leave at season's end.

Drain is the third person in as many months to resign from the club, following former assistant coach Tony Elshaug's shock resignation, and Stephen Silvagni's defection to Greater Western Sydney."

[FQF]

I didn't realise SOS was going to GWS...

People shouldn't underestimate the effect of this overhaul.

It will almost be a completely new club next year.

Let's hope it is for the better...

[saintsRrising]

I didn't realise SOS was going to GWS...

...

Yes it was mentioned a while back...not as a coaching role though.

Don't be surprised if Drain joins him there.

[Eastern]

I didn't realise SOS was going to GWS...

...

Yes it was mentioned a while back...not as a coaching role though.

Don't be surprised if Drain joins him there.

Did Drain work for Essendon/Sheedy at some point? !!

[saintsRrising]

I didn't realise SOS was going to GWS...

...

Yes it was mentioned a while back...not as a coaching role though.

Don't be surprised if Drain joins him there.

Did Drain work for Essendon/Sheedy at some point? !!

Yes. Dons...Dogs.....Saints....

[FQF]

I didn't realise SOS was going to GWS...

...

Yes it was mentioned a while back...not as a coaching role though.

Don't be surprised if Drain joins him there.

Did Drain work for Essendon/Sheedy at some point? !!

Yes. Dons...Dogs.....Saints....

Connection with Lovett?

[Legendary]

I didn't realise SOS was going to GWS...

People shouldn't underestimate the effect of this overhaul.

It will almost be a completely new club next year.

Let's hope it is for the better...

SOS wants to spend more time with his family, he enjoys the hard work of being an assistant but I think he would prefer something less "full on".

He was going to leave at the end of last year, but out of favour and loyalty to Lyon he stayed on for one more season.

From what I understand, his role with GWS is part-time and will not be a significant committment. I understand it is likely to be based in Melbourne.

[BigMart]

Someone MUST take responsibilty for the recruiting shambles of 2008 and 2009....

It was a stuff up that we will pay for in 2014 - 2016

That hurt us and helped Collingwood...

[saintspremiers]

Someone MUST take responsibilty for the recruiting shambles of 2008 and 2009....

It was a stuff up that we will pay for in 2014 - 2016

That hurt us and helped Collingwood...

Will you care if we win the next 2 games?

I won't!

(But I will if we are again flagless this season).

[Thinline]

Someone MUST take responsibilty for the recruiting shambles of 2008 and 2009....

It was a stuff up that we will pay for in 2014 - 2016

That hurt us and helped Collingwood...

2014, hey.

Win 2010 and I don't give a s*** if we come last for a decade.

[saintsRrising]

Someone MUST take responsibilty for the recruiting shambles of 2008 and 2009....

...

Shambles of 2008???????????????

While 2009 was not the best…why was 2008 a shambles?

Lynch our first pick has not come on yet.....but neither have most players taken in his part of the draft.


Then we swapped a pick for Farren Ray, and got a pick back (Heyne)
However the next three taken in Stanley, Heyne and Alistair Smith all look ok. Indeed Stanley looks to be very very good.

Cahill not so much, but he was taken 74.

In the Rookies Zac was taken as well as Tom Simpkin.

I would quite happily take a shambles like 2008 every year!!!!!!!!!!!

[maverick]

Good call for 2008 & 2009.

In 2004 & 2005 all we got was Gilbert and Mini (eventually) and four years on we played in a GF, we should stuff more drafts up.

[MadSaintFan]

I think alot of people judge draft picks far too harshly too early on in their careers.

Ross talks about having a 4 year apprenticeship - I think his approach here is spot on. Join the club, build and develop yourself over 1-2 years to give yourself the best opportunity to make the 1s in the 3rd-4th year.
Unless your getting a top5 pick it takes a very special kid to make an impact in the seniors from year 1.

Matty Drain will be a loss IMO. Anyone of his experiance would be. We'll target the best available and hopefully snag someone valuable to come on board.

[Animal Enclosure]

Someone MUST take responsibilty for the recruiting shambles of 2008 and 2009....

...

Shambles of 2008???????????????

While 2009 was not the best…why was 2008 a shambles?

Lynch our first pick has not come on yet.....but neither have most players taken in his part of the draft.


Then we swapped a pick for Farren Ray, and got a pick back (Heyne)
However the next three taken in Stanley, Heyne and Alistair Smith all look ok. Indeed Stanley looks to be very very good.

Cahill not so much, but he was taken 74.

In the Rookies Zac was taken as well as Tom Simpkin.

I would quite happily take a shambles like 2008 every year!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good old BigMart bleat.

[BigMart]

Fact is - He is GONE!!!!

Fact is

after 'due diligence' he decided NOT to take someone in 2008????

and

after 'due diligence' he decided TO take someone in 2009???

Maybe the club has done due diligence on him...

Since 2007...some of the list management decisions have been good.....some POOR.

[Moods]

THis may be a little off the beaten trackj - but has anyone read the book 'Moneyball' by Michael Lewis? He's an American author who examines why the Oakland Athletics have been such a successful organisation in the past decade whilst having 1/20th of the money to spend on players that the big ball clubs have.

I know many will say that baseball and AFL are worlds apart - but after reading the book I couldn't but help think that RL and Paul Roos have either read the book or Roosy actually attended the USA (where his wife lives) and examined their philosophies and adopted many of them. He discusses how too many sporting organisations are focussed on the outcome and not the process. He also discusses how High school ball players are a favourite of recruiters over in the USA but they are invariably a flop. The Oakland Aths focus on college players - guys who have played against men. They play the percentages, and recruit ball players rather than athletes. These ball players are recruited for a specific purpose and play a role in the team. The similarities with what both Lyon and Roos do is striking. Both are fanatical about process, and allow the result to take care of itself. Both prefer mature age players who have proven themselves against men to TAC cup players. Lyon isn't afraid to draft recycled players who are relatively young who have shown something in the past, ie SChneider, Ray, Dawson, even CJ. King and Gardi were drafted for a reason. We traded our 1st rounder for a proven player in Lovett - yes ultimately a big mistake, but you can see his philosophy. REcruiting players to play a specific role assists the overall package of what the coach wants. He ridicules clubs who claim they are bottoming out or rebuilding as phrases that basically mean, 'we are crap, the players will merely be collecting their pay cheques for the next 5 years but their is no hope in the immediate future.'

This book is the bible for modern day sporting organisations in America apparently. I am almost certain Ross at the very least has read this book, and he has no intention of ever rebuilding or bottoming out. The saints have been strong now for 7 years. Whilst some of our draft picks haven't worked out, I am confident that following this philosophy we will continue to challenge the top teams for many years to come.

[yipper]

Gee, just can't see what we are supposedly doing wrong!!! 3rd prelim in a row, possibly second GF in a row. Maybe even a flag this year. AND with emerging young talent coming thru in McEvoy, Stanley, Smith, Steven, Geary, Lynch, Walsh, Miles, Gaertner, Simpkin. Plus with many of the current best 22 still in relatively young years.

What is the obsession with recruiting young pimple faced kids when you are still a powerful football club in the AFL. I think they actually have the balance right between the here and now and the future. I think we are doing very well on all fronts as a professional footy club.

[Thinline]

Gee, just can't see what we are supposedly doing wrong!!! 3rd prelim in a row, possibly second GF in a row. Maybe even a flag this year. AND with emerging young talent coming thru in McEvoy, Stanley, Smith, Steven, Geary, Lynch, Walsh, Miles, Gaertner, Simpkin. Plus with many of the current best 22 still in relatively young years.

What is the obsession with recruiting young pimple faced kids when you are still a powerful football club in the AFL. I think they actually have the balance right between the here and now and the future. I think we are doing very well on all fronts as a professional footy club.

YES.

[bigred]

Lost a lot of face over the Lovett fiasco.

[saintsRrising]

Fact is

after 'due diligence' he decided NOT to take someone in 2008????

.

Ok..if it is Fact...you can name the player. Who was it?

I wonder who it could be....as it was not Cousins for the Board stopped Cousins coming to the Saints due to Sponsor objections.

Cousins passed "due diligence" from the Football Department, but was vetoed due to fear, or rather reality, of losing major sponsorship dollars.

[Legendary]

THis may be a little off the beaten trackj - but has anyone read the book 'Moneyball' by Michael Lewis? He's an American author who examines why the Oakland Athletics have been such a successful organisation in the past decade whilst having 1/20th of the money to spend on players that the big ball clubs have.

I know many will say that baseball and AFL are worlds apart - but after reading the book I couldn't but help think that RL and Paul Roos have either read the book or Roosy actually attended the USA (where his wife lives) and examined their philosophies and adopted many of them. He discusses how too many sporting organisations are focussed on the outcome and not the process. He also discusses how High school ball players are a favourite of recruiters over in the USA but they are invariably a flop. The Oakland Aths focus on college players - guys who have played against men. They play the percentages, and recruit ball players rather than athletes. These ball players are recruited for a specific purpose and play a role in the team. The similarities with what both Lyon and Roos do is striking. Both are fanatical about process, and allow the result to take care of itself. Both prefer mature age players who have proven themselves against men to TAC cup players. Lyon isn't afraid to draft recycled players who are relatively young who have shown something in the past, ie SChneider, Ray, Dawson, even CJ. King and Gardi were drafted for a reason. We traded our 1st rounder for a proven player in Lovett - yes ultimately a big mistake, but you can see his philosophy. REcruiting players to play a specific role assists the overall package of what the coach wants. He ridicules clubs who claim they are bottoming out or rebuilding as phrases that basically mean, 'we are crap, the players will merely be collecting their pay cheques for the next 5 years but their is no hope in the immediate future.'

This book is the bible for modern day sporting organisations in America apparently. I am almost certain Ross at the very least has read this book, and he has no intention of ever rebuilding or bottoming out. The saints have been strong now for 7 years. Whilst some of our draft picks haven't worked out, I am confident that following this philosophy we will continue to challenge the top teams for many years to come.

Thankyou for that very interesting post - great read.

Ross is well informed about developments in coaching etc. in other sports, I have heard him speak about things like that a number of times.

[saintsRrising]

THis may be a little off the beaten trackj - but has anyone read the book 'Moneyball' by Michael Lewis? He's an American author who examines why the Oakland Athletics have been such a successful organisation in the past decade whilst having 1/20th of the money to spend on players that the big ball clubs have.

I know many will say that baseball and AFL are worlds apart - but after reading the book I couldn't but help think that RL and Paul Roos have either read the book or Roosy actually attended the USA (where his wife lives) and examined their philosophies and adopted many of them. He discusses how too many sporting organisations are focussed on the outcome and not the process. He also discusses how High school ball players are a favourite of recruiters over in the USA but they are invariably a flop. The Oakland Aths focus on college players - guys who have played against men. They play the percentages, and recruit ball players rather than athletes. These ball players are recruited for a specific purpose and play a role in the team. The similarities with what both Lyon and Roos do is striking. Both are fanatical about process, and allow the result to take care of itself. Both prefer mature age players who have proven themselves against men to TAC cup players. Lyon isn't afraid to draft recycled players who are relatively young who have shown something in the past, ie SChneider, Ray, Dawson, even CJ. King and Gardi were drafted for a reason. We traded our 1st rounder for a proven player in Lovett - yes ultimately a big mistake, but you can see his philosophy. REcruiting players to play a specific role assists the overall package of what the coach wants. He ridicules clubs who claim they are bottoming out or rebuilding as phrases that basically mean, 'we are crap, the players will merely be collecting their pay cheques for the next 5 years but their is no hope in the immediate future.'

This book is the bible for modern day sporting organisations in America apparently. I am almost certain Ross at the very least has read this book, and he has no intention of ever rebuilding or bottoming out. The saints have been strong now for 7 years. Whilst some of our draft picks haven't worked out, I am confident that following this philosophy we will continue to challenge the top teams for many years to come.

As another posted has already noted, this a good read....and was also posted awhile back (perhaps by you??).

I tend to agree that they influenced Roos...or it not, then a seperate process has led to a similar approach.

This approach may not be for all clubs but can work very very well.
It is well suited to teams such as the Swans and saints who are not currently bottoming out and want to improve.

ie The Dees were low and so maximising draft picks and early drafts picks is avery good way forward if you can be patient and were in their circmstances.

However you can get it wrong, and very wrong.
Voss is an example of getting it very wrong.

Lovett is getting a selection wrong, but not in getting the process wrong as by and large the picks using this philophosy under Lyon have deilvered value well above their cost.

This process is working very well for the Saints and will continue to do so.

The "Barlow-Pods Effect" will kick in this next draft trade period as more mature players are looked beyond the AFL Pool.


Recruiting has changed. If it ever was only about picking the best kid (which it wasn't), it certainly is not now.

[Moods]

SR - never been posted by me - I just finished reading the book in the last few days. Thought I would find it boring, but actually loved it. Was wondering if others had ever read it.

Voss made the mistake of thinking result - therefore he got Fev. Paid way over the market price for him (a huge no in the book) and already had a competent FF in Bradshaw so didn't need him anyway (another huge mistake according to the book) It's tantamount to us recruiting Jon Brown, just b/c we could and sacrificing the world to get him.

That former wc player they got (name escapes me) worked out well. Then again he had already shown potential and the lions actually needed a tall runner. Maguire worked out as far as I can tell. Was a risk, they needed him, he's shown ability in the past and they got him for nothing. Yes he got injured but as far as I can tell so far - tick. X remains to be seen. If he can't get his body right then probably a no. Raines - always a dumb move. Don't know what he was thinking.

[Mr Magic]

That former wc player they got (name escapes me) worked out well. Then again he had already shown potential and the lions actually needed a tall runner.

Staker?