Plugger.

[The Fireman]

I was talking to Ken Sheldon last week and I asked about the machinations of why he and the club went there different ways...he said he didn't see eye to eye with the club on letting Lockett go...

I was under the impression that the club couldn't match the offers made by Sydney but not the case,he told me The Saints had the money and also that Collingwood had offered a massive sum for him. millions.

Not too happy about that.

Did anyone else know this ?

[howlinwolf]

I was very disappointed at the time as most were but in hindsight it wasn't that bad. We ended up in a GF 2 (?) years later.
Maybe the Club could see an unhealthy reliance on one player may not get us to the holy grail ?
It wasn't easy to see him in the Swans jumper I must admit.
Thanks for sharing Firey.

[Jacks Back]

Who? Plugger66?

[hungry for a premiership]

we lost plugger, but with picked up aussie jones, joel smith, and tony brown, who turned out to be just the tonic we needed at the time.

BUT, can u imagine we had lockett at full-forward, instead of Heatley, in the '97 GF???

[plugger66]

I took the millions but still stayed.

[plugger66]

we lost plugger, but with picked up aussie jones, joel smith, and tony brown, who turned out to be just the tonic we needed at the time.

BUT, can u imagine we had lockett at full-forward, instead of Heatley, in the '97 GF???

We got them but only one of them was directly due to Plugger leaving. Its one of those myths that isnt quite right.

[hungry for a premiership]

we lost plugger, but with picked up aussie jones, joel smith, and tony brown, who turned out to be just the tonic we needed at the time.

BUT, can u imagine we had lockett at full-forward, instead of Heatley, in the '97 GF???

We got them but only one of them was directly due to Plugger leaving. Its one of those myths that isnt quite right.

Which one was it?

[SaintPav]

we lost plugger, but with picked up aussie jones, joel smith, and tony brown, who turned out to be just the tonic we needed at the time.

BUT, can u imagine we had lockett at full-forward, instead of Heatley, in the '97 GF???

Like he made a difference for the Swans in 96. The way that game paned out it wouldn't made a difference IMO.

I would have rather had both our rucks in which may have made a difference to the way we set up. Also, Stan was a bit slow to react or he didn't react at all.

[Old Mate]

Joel Smith for Plugger I believe

I always thought it was financial decision for him leaving. We were paid out by the Swines and Plugger isn't happy with the club to this day. He felt betrayed and would've stayed at St Kilda for a lot less.

[hungry for a premiership]

we lost plugger, but with picked up aussie jones, joel smith, and tony brown, who turned out to be just the tonic we needed at the time.

BUT, can u imagine we had lockett at full-forward, instead of Heatley, in the '97 GF???

Like he made a difference for the Swans in 96. The way that game paned out it wouldn't made a difference IMO.

I would have rather had both our rucks in which may have made a difference to the way we set up. Also, Stan was a bit slow to react or he didn't react at all.

aarrrghh, why did I bring up these painful memories....

[spert]

I remember an interview with Nathan Burke back then who said something like Plugger was torn between staying, or the big money on offer by the Swans, and took the quids basically to set himself up.

[Dr Spaceman]

I was very disappointed at the time as most were but in hindsight it wasn't that bad. We ended up in a GF 2 (?) years later.
Maybe the Club could see an unhealthy reliance on one player may not get us to the holy grail ?
It wasn't easy to see him in the Swans jumper I must admit.
Thanks for sharing Firey.

It hurt like hell when it happened, and it still irritates now.

I suppose the only way to look at it is that we were extremely lucky to have him for the years we did. If he'd been born away from the Ballarat area we would never had enjoyed those amazing Plugger times.

That's one option. The other is to simply go mad

[stinger]

I was very disappointed at the time as most were but in hindsight it wasn't that bad. We ended up in a GF 2 (?) years later.
Maybe the Club could see an unhealthy reliance on one player may not get us to the holy grail ?
It wasn't easy to see him in the Swans jumper I must admit.
Thanks for sharing Firey.

which we would have won if plugger had played that day...

apart from smith...we got sfa for him.....

[stinger]

we lost plugger, but with picked up aussie jones, joel smith, and tony brown, who turned out to be just the tonic we needed at the time.

BUT, can u imagine we had lockett at full-forward, instead of Heatley, in the '97 GF???

jones and brown were our picks anyway......we got joel and a packet of used condoms.....

[Enrico_Misso]

I remember his last game against Collingwood at The Park.
As he had done so so many times, he had kicked another big bag of goals.
There had been considerable speculation he was leaving.
At the end of the game as he came off the ground Alves was standing on the ground near the bench/race and both he and the crowd were applauding him.
But Plugger never raised his eyes or acknowledged the crowd or Alves who was only a metre or so away yelling encouragement as he trudged off.

It was an odd moment and I wondered then if the decision had been made.
The Alves applauding in retrospect looked like a last minute deperate attempt to persuade him to stay.
But Plugger's body language indicated it was too late.

As it turned out that eyes-down trudge off the ground was the last time he ever wore a StK jumper.
He didn't play the next week with some minor "injury" and that was it.
Gone.
If the full truth ever comes out I think you will find the AFL had their grubby fingers all over it as they would have seen it as a marketing opportunity for their "agenda".

[Dave McNamara]

...If the full truth ever comes out I think you will find the AFL had their grubby fingers all over it as they would have seen it as a marketing opportunity for their "agenda".

Totally agree with this Enrico.

I still (bitterly/angrily) recall a doco' on him. Although he played more games, spent more time, and kicked more goals, with St Kilda than the Swines, Plugger's St Kilda time was portrayed as little more than a prequel to his real career in Sydney.

It was since then that I put the Swines on my don't-like list.

(McA, I don't suppose you have access to the AFL propaganda doco in question???)

As for the full story as to why he left, just like with Luke Ball, good, bad or indifferent..., I'd still like to know...

As for our compensation... Joel Smith, as a promising but still unproven player, took big money from the Dawks..., even though the saints said they'd stick by him when he did a knee...

[Dave McNamara]

...If the full truth ever comes out I think you will find the AFL had their grubby fingers all over it as they would have seen it as a marketing opportunity for their "agenda".

Totally agree with this Enrico.

I still (bitterly/angrily) recall a doco' on him. Although he played more games, spent more time, and kicked more goals, with St Kilda than the Swines, Plugger's St Kilda time was portrayed as little more than a prequel to his real career in Sydney.

It was since then that I put the Swines on my don't-like list.

(McA, I don't suppose you have access to the AFL propaganda doco in question???)

As for the full story as to why he left, just like with Luke Ball, good, bad or indifferent..., I'd still like to know...

As for our compensation... Joel Smith, as a promising but still unproven player, took big money from the Dawks..., even though the saints said they'd stick by him when he did a knee...

Thanks Joel.

[Dave McNamara]

Sorry, double post.

[perfectionist]

We got Joel Smith (pick 5) and Robert Neill (Trade) for Tony Lockett. Since we also had pick 7 (because we finished third last in 1994), we might have picked him up anyway (Fitzroy took Robert McMahon with pick 6 who played 2 games in 1996).

Joel Smith is in my top 6 most skillful Saints players that I have seen (the others are Tony Lockett, Ian Stewart, Nicky Winmar, Darrel Baldock and John McIntosh). My criteria consist of the ability to kick and handball both sides and to take an overhead contested mark - both at the highest level. If you look at the games of 1996/97, it was Joel Smith who provided that bit of brilliance that turned matches. In 1997 (at least until mid way through the third quarter of round 18), we had Robert Harvey, Nathan Burke, Joel Smith and Nicky Winmar driving the ball forward - now that was brilliance personified. We were looking good. And then 4 club hack Richard Osborne fell over as he was running for the ball and Joel went over the top of him and that was that - bang went the knee. Three weeks later, Lazar did his knee with five minutes to go in the last home and away game and then Spider broke his collarbone in the first fifteen minutes of our very next game - the EF final. Nicky's dad died the night before the GF, Stewie Loewe had a family tragedy in the GF week and Robert Harvey did his knee in the first quarter (but played on). We still led by 13 points at half time. And people say we are not jinxed!

On Tony Lockett, the is no doubt that he went for the money (any club can theoretically match an offer if everyone else agrees to a pay cut). He rationalised it as being the opportunity for a new start. It was. Sydney finished last in 1994 and first two years later (but could not win the flag). Joel Smith played well for Hawthorn and was even AA, but was never the same player that he was before he did the knee. He retired in 2007, and the Hawks won the flag the next year. The jinx had followed him.

[stevie]

I remember his last game against Collingwood at The Park.
As he had done so so many times, he had kicked another big bag of goals.
There had been considerable speculation he was leaving.
At the end of the game as he came off the ground Alves was standing on the ground near the bench/race and both he and the crowd were applauding him.
But Plugger never raised his eyes or acknowledged the crowd or Alves who was only a metre or so away yelling encouragement as he trudged off.

It was an odd moment and I wondered then if the decision had been made.
The Alves applauding in retrospect looked like a last minute deperate attempt to persuade him to stay.
But Plugger's body language indicated it was too late.

As it turned out that eyes-down trudge off the ground was the last time he ever wore a StK jumper.
He didn't play the next week with some minor "injury" and that was it.
Gone.
If the full truth ever comes out I think you will find the AFL had their grubby fingers all over it as they would have seen it as a marketing opportunity for their "agenda".

I'm pretty sure that was the final one and away game of 94' EM. Plugger kicked 8 and we won by 2 pts. Will have to check my diary to see the actual facts.

I was always under the impression that it was time for Plugger to leave anyway. He was prolly getting 'stale'. I remember finding out he'd left on our footy trip in October. Our captain was mighty pleased as he followed Shitney!

But I got used to it the next year, and always kept tabs on Plugger and still wrote down his goal tally each week, and career goals along with Dunstalls.

Plugger is the best player I hav ever seen.

[spert]

I really don't like the Swans, they seem to be able to manipulate the AFL to suit themselves. The Hall/ Maguire indicent was enough for me to see the AFL turned a blind eye so the Swans could pull some shonky technicality to get Hall off for the finals to suit the AFL big picture of finals success for interstate clubs, when clearly, if it was roles reversed, a Saints player would have been rubbed out.

[perfectionist]

...I'm pretty sure that was the final one and away game of 94' EM. Plugger kicked 8 and we won by 2 pts...

Nope. Penultimate H&A game which was at Waverley. We played Fitzroy in the last game, at Western Oval of all places.

[stinger]

We got Joel Smith (pick 5) and Robert Neill (Trade) for Tony Lockett. Since we also had pick 7 (because we finished third last in 1994), we might have picked him up anyway (Fitzroy took Robert McMahon with pick 6 who played 2 games in 1996).

Joel Smith is in my top 6 most skillful Saints players that I have seen (the others are Tony Lockett, Ian Stewart, Nicky Winmar, Darrel Baldock and John McIntosh). My criteria consist of the ability to kick and handball both sides and to take an overhead contested mark - both at the highest level. If you look at the games of 1996/97, it was Joel Smith who provided that bit of brilliance that turned matches. In 1997 (at least until mid way through the third quarter of round 18), we had Robert Harvey, Nathan Burke, Joel Smith and Nicky Winmar driving the ball forward - now that was brilliance personified. We were looking good. And then 4 club hack Richard Osborne fell over as he was running for the ball and Joel went over the top of him and that was that - bang went the knee. Three weeks later, Lazar did his knee with five minutes to go in the last home and away game and then Spider broke his collarbone in the first fifteen minutes of our very next game - the EF final. Nicky's dad died the night before the GF, Stewie Loewe had a family tragedy in the GF week and Robert Harvey did his knee in the first quarter (but played on). We still led by 13 points at half time. And people say we are not jinxed!

On Tony Lockett, the is no doubt that he went for the money (any club can theoretically match an offer if everyone else agrees to a pay cut). He rationalised it as being the opportunity for a new start. It was. Sydney finished last in 1994 and first two years later (but could not win the flag). Joel Smith played well for Hawthorn and was even AA, but was never the same player that he was before he did the knee. He retired in 2007, and the Hawks won the flag the next year. The jinx had followed him.

..

good post...even if it does make one relive painful memories.......never forgive osbourne.....he should have known better...same thing had happened to him.......

[mcadam05]

I remember his last game against Collingwood at The Park.
As he had done so so many times, he had kicked another big bag of goals.
There had been considerable speculation he was leaving.
At the end of the game as he came off the ground Alves was standing on the ground near the bench/race and both he and the crowd were applauding him.
But Plugger never raised his eyes or acknowledged the crowd or Alves who was only a metre or so away yelling encouragement as he trudged off.

It was an odd moment and I wondered then if the decision had been made.
The Alves applauding in retrospect looked like a last minute deperate attempt to persuade him to stay.
But Plugger's body language indicated it was too late.

As it turned out that eyes-down trudge off the ground was the last time he ever wore a StK jumper.
He didn't play the next week with some minor "injury" and that was it.
Gone.
If the full truth ever comes out I think you will find the AFL had their grubby fingers all over it as they would have seen it as a marketing opportunity for their "agenda".

I'm pretty sure that was the final one and away game of 94' EM. Plugger kicked 8 and we won by 2 pts. Will have to check my diary to see the actual facts.

I was always under the impression that it was time for Plugger to leave anyway. He was prolly getting 'stale'. I remember finding out he'd left on our footy trip in October. Our captain was mighty pleased as he followed Shitney!

But I got used to it the next year, and always kept tabs on Plugger and still wrote down his goal tally each week, and career goals along with Dunstalls.

Plugger is the best player I hav ever seen.

I posted the game

[stevie]

...I'm pretty sure that was the final one and away game of 94' EM. Plugger kicked 8 and we won by 2 pts...

Nope. Penultimate H&A game which was at Waverley. We played Fitzroy in the last game, at Western Oval of all places.

My apologies. Yep, just checked my diary from 1994.