The under 25's XXV - The future ins't so frightening...

[Uncle Barrels]

Assuming upgrades...

B: Geary (24,183, 82) Ferguson (20, 194, 85) Simpkin (22, 191, 91)

HB: Newnes (20, 184, 76) Lever (20, 200, 82) Dunell (23, 190 81)

C: Siposs (20, 189, 87) Ross (20, 187, 83) Ledger (21, 178, 76)

HF: Milera (25, 183, 77) Stanley (22, 200, 98) Markworth (20, 189, 78)

F: McEvoy (23, 200, 101) Lee (22, 195, 86) Saad (23, 175, 75)

R: Hickey (22, 201, 87) Armitage (24, 183, 84) Steven (23, 180, 82)

INT: Curren (21, 178, 78) Dennis-Lane (24, 181, 75) Minchington (19, 179, 80)

Sub: Shenton (22, 188, 84)

Em: Webster (20, 188, 75) Staley (20, 194, 90) Winmar (22, 189, 83)


The future's not so bleak...

[Con Gorozidis]

Looks a heck of a lot better than it did 12 months ago. Our under 25 side then was woeful.

[shmic_s]

Good to see the recruiters and list managers know what they are doing.

Clearly recognised the problem with the list and fixed it over the last 1.5 drafts. Bring in a couple more quality youngsters later this month.

Lots of if's, but's and maybe's, but yes. Future isn't looking as dark and gloomy. Not out of the woods yet though IMO.

The next stage is the 'development academy'. Hope the investment starts paying dividends in the next 12-24 months.
We need to find some guns to replace Lenny, Roo and Milne.

[bergholt]

Clearly recognised the problem with the list and fixed it over the last 1.5 drafts.

I'm not sure it's "fixed".

Are there any stars in that side? I reckon that's a team full of ok to good to very good players (at best). To do really well, though, you need stars. Let's hope a couple of those guys end up in the top ten players in the league, otherwise we'll be 7th to 14th for a long time.

[Uncle Barrels]

Clearly recognised the problem with the list and fixed it over the last 1.5 drafts.

I'm not sure it's "fixed".

Are there any stars in that side? I reckon that's a team full of ok to good to very good players (at best). To do really well, though, you need stars. Let's hope a couple of those guys end up in the top ten players in the league, otherwise we'll be 7th to 14th for a long time.

Agree with that, but reckon there are stars potentially there (Siposs, Stanley, Ross, Lee..)

Either way, the "doom-and-gloom" brigade seems a little keen in view of that side

[mad saint guy]

It's looking better than it did a couple of years ago, but it'd still be close to the worst in the league.


The best of our team: McEvoy, Siposs, Saad, Steven, Armitage, Stanley, Geary, Simpkin, Newnes

Top teams

Hawthorn: Franklin, Roughead, Rioli, Birchall, Gunston, Smith, Puopolo, Suckling, Savage, Schoenmakers

Collingwood: Pendlebury, Cloke, Thomas, Beams, Sidebottom, Reid, Brown, Blair, Fasolo, Paine

Geelong: Selwood, Hawkins, Duncan, Menzel, Smedts, Motlop, Varcoe, Hunt, Murdoch, Christensen

Sydney: Kennedy, Jetta, Jack, Hannebury, Grundy, Reid, Rohan, Bird, Parker, Johnson, Smith

Mid-range teams

Carlton: Murphy, Gibbs, Kreuzer, Betts, Henderson, Yarran, Gartlett, Robinson, Casblout, McInnes

Fremantle: Fyfe, Barlow, Hill, Ballantyne, Mayne, Clarke, Ibbotson, Pearce, Walters, Morabito

Richmond: Cotchin, Riewoldt, Deledio, Rance, Martin, Vickery, Conca, Grigg, Nahas, Houli, Morris

Even the punch lines of the competition

Port Adelaide: Hartlett, Trengove, Boak, Wingard, Butcher, Redden, Ebert, O'Shea

Melbourne: Grimes, Frawley, Clark, Jones, Howe, Watts, McKenzie, Blease


Watters, Pelchen and co are working very hard to avoid a horrible decline when the 28-30 year olds retire, but it'll take more than this. We have a few promising kids and some useful young players who can play a role, but we're a long way off being a force again. The younger portion of our list simply doesn't stack up to the rest of the competition.

[Con Gorozidis]

Agree with most posters.
We have a lot of work to do and aren't out of the woods BUT our situation has improved markedly from 12 months ago. So some credit is owed to the club mgt.
12 months ago I was paid up and full member of the doom and gloom brigade. Now I am in the - maybe some shred of hope - brigade.

[desertsaint]

Clearly recognised the problem with the list and fixed it over the last 1.5 drafts.

I'm not sure it's "fixed".

Are there any stars in that side? I reckon that's a team full of ok to good to very good players (at best). To do really well, though, you need stars. Let's hope a couple of those guys end up in the top ten players in the league, otherwise we'll be 7th to 14th for a long time.

With a few obvious exceptions - most well over 25 - the swans are a team of ok to good to very good players (at best) as well.
Important thing is how well they gel, give their all, and follow instructions.

[saintly]

Clearly recognised the problem with the list and fixed it over the last 1.5 drafts.

I'm not sure it's "fixed".

Are there any stars in that side? I reckon that's a team full of ok to good to very good players (at best). To do really well, though, you need stars. Let's hope a couple of those guys end up in the top ten players in the league, otherwise we'll be 7th to 14th for a long time.

the only way to get stars, is to be on the bottom, or via free agency. Now that Goddard and Gram are gone, We might go hard for Free agency next year.

[bobmurray]

Assuming upgrades...

B: Geary (24,183, 82) Ferguson (20, 194, 85) Simpkin (22, 191, 91)

HB: Newnes (20, 184, 76) Lever (20, 200, 82) Dunell (23, 190 81)

C: Siposs (20, 189, 87) Ross (20, 187, 83) Ledger (21, 178, 76)

HF: Milera (25, 183, 77) Stanley (22, 200, 98) Markworth (20, 189, 78)

F: McEvoy (23, 200, 101) Lee (22, 195, 86) Saad (23, 175, 75)

R: Hickey (22, 201, 87) Armitage (24, 183, 84) Steven (23, 180, 82)

INT: Curren (21, 178, 78) Dennis-Lane (24, 181, 75) Minchington (19, 179, 80)

Sub: Shenton (22, 188, 84)

Em: Webster (20, 188, 75) Staley (20, 194, 90) Winmar (22, 189, 83)


The future's not so bleak...

That team might even give GWS a run for it's money...

[chook23]

Might be young.....ability wise would prob get smashed by all other sides.

[mad saint guy]

With a few obvious exceptions - most well over 25 - the swans are a team of ok to good to very good players (at best) as well.
Important thing is how well they gel, give their all, and follow instructions.

Again, from my previous post

Kennedy, Jetta, Jack, Hannebury, Grundy, Reid, Rohan, Bird, Parker, Johnson, Smith

That's half their regular side under 25, and there are four absolute guns on that list, with a few more likely to improve drastically. Sydney have reshaped their team immensely over the past few years but a fair few people seem to think it's the same side they've had for a decade.

[plugger66]

That side would finish last next year. And will continue to finish last in the next few years. Hopefully we can trade and draft to stop that.

[shmic_s]

Clearly recognised the problem with the list and fixed it over the last 1.5 drafts.

I'm not sure it's "fixed".

Are there any stars in that side? I reckon that's a team full of ok to good to very good players (at best). To do really well, though, you need stars. Let's hope a couple of those guys end up in the top ten players in the league, otherwise we'll be 7th to 14th for a long time.

Agree with that, but reckon there are stars potentially there (Siposs, Stanley, Ross, Lee..)

Either way, the "doom-and-gloom" brigade seems a little keen in view of that side

I agree it's not fixed. More improved. Gone from very few in the 22-24 age bracket to having a few players like saad milera lee hickey that have a bit of potential. And with our new super development academy I have some hope that I didn't have previously.

[Jacks Back]

Thanks Uncle Barrels. That's a nice looking side you've got listed there. I like it, I like it a lot.

Why are so many people so unkind? Love your club.

[Wrote for Luck]

I think Cockie could sneak in there

[desertsaint]

With a few obvious exceptions - most well over 25 - the swans are a team of ok to good to very good players (at best) as well.
Important thing is how well they gel, give their all, and follow instructions.

Again, from my previous post

Kennedy, Jetta, Jack, Hannebury, Grundy, Reid, Rohan, Bird, Parker, Johnson, Smith

That's half their regular side under 25, and there are four absolute guns on that list, with a few more likely to improve drastically. Sydney have reshaped their team immensely over the past few years but a fair few people seem to think it's the same side they've had for a decade.

And would you have said the same thing prior to 2012?
Not a chance. Gelling as a team does wonderful things for confidence and pushing players to their peak. Give ours a year or two, we could go the same way, we may not. I think you are overrating the swans as individuals. Great season from them.

[Uncle Barrels]

That side would finish last next year. And will continue to finish last in the next few years. Hopefully we can trade and draft to stop that.

I don't agree with that at all. At the very least it would beat GWS and a Gazza Jnr-less GC, and that's without really thinking about any other teams. I'd be fairly comfortable in saying it would handle the Bulldogs as well without trouble

[magnifisaint]

Looks a heck of a lot better than it did 12 months ago. Our under 25 side then was woeful.

Con, Please explain?

Do you reckon we had some crap U25s last year?

[Devilhead]

It's looking better than it did a couple of years ago, but it'd still be close to the worst in the league.


The best of our team: McEvoy, Siposs, Saad, Steven, Armitage, Stanley, Geary, Simpkin, Newnes

Top teams

Hawthorn: Franklin, Roughead, Rioli, Birchall, Gunston, Smith, Puopolo, Suckling, Savage, Schoenmakers

Collingwood: Pendlebury, Cloke, Thomas, Beams, Sidebottom, Reid, Brown, Blair, Fasolo, Paine

Geelong: Selwood, Hawkins, Duncan, Menzel, Smedts, Motlop, Varcoe, Hunt, Murdoch, Christensen

Sydney: Kennedy, Jetta, Jack, Hannebury, Grundy, Reid, Rohan, Bird, Parker, Johnson, Smith

Mid-range teams

Carlton: Murphy, Gibbs, Kreuzer, Betts, Henderson, Yarran, Gartlett, Robinson, Casblout, McInnes

Fremantle: Fyfe, Barlow, Hill, Ballantyne, Mayne, Clarke, Ibbotson, Pearce, Walters, Morabito

Richmond: Cotchin, Riewoldt, Deledio, Rance, Martin, Vickery, Conca, Grigg, Nahas, Houli, Morris

Even the punch lines of the competition

Port Adelaide: Hartlett, Trengove, Boak, Wingard, Butcher, Redden, Ebert, O'Shea

Melbourne: Grimes, Frawley, Clark, Jones, Howe, Watts, McKenzie, Blease


Watters, Pelchen and co are working very hard to avoid a horrible decline when the 28-30 year olds retire, but it'll take more than this. We have a few promising kids and some useful young players who can play a role, but we're a long way off being a force again. The younger portion of our list simply doesn't stack up to the rest of the competition.

Just trying to work out how the players above in red qualify for Under 25's when they are already 25 and some will be 26 before the start of next season

[mad saint guy]

Just trying to work out how the players above in red qualify for Under 25's when they are already 25 and some will be 26 before the start of next season

The same way Milera does in the OP

[mick13]

Generally in the 'Unders' you would turn that age during the year. So I think it counts.

Of course an Under 24 team would work much better for us to compare everyone

[saintspremiers]

Why hasn't Winmar been delisted yet?

[kosifantutti]

Looks a heck of a lot better than it did 12 months ago. Our under 25 side then was woeful.

Con, Please explain?

Do you reckon we had some crap U25s last year?

Because we would have had Gilbert, Ray, Gwilt and Wilkes but now they have been replaced by Lever, Minchington, Curren and Shelton.

[kaos theory]

With a few obvious exceptions - most well over 25 - the swans are a team of ok to good to very good players (at best) as well.
Important thing is how well they gel, give their all, and follow instructions.

Again, from my previous post

Kennedy, Jetta, Jack, Hannebury, Grundy, Reid, Rohan, Bird, Parker, Johnson, Smith

That's half their regular side under 25, and there are four absolute guns on that list, with a few more likely to improve drastically. Sydney have reshaped their team immensely over the past few years but a fair few people seem to think it's the same side they've had for a decade.

And would you have said the same thing prior to 2012?
Not a chance. Gelling as a team does wonderful things for confidence and pushing players to their peak. Give ours a year or two, we could go the same way, we may not. I think you are overrating the swans as individuals. Great season from them.

Agreed. Many at the start of this year would have said that the swans had one established elite (and ageing) star, ie Goodes, plus a bunch of GOPS and a few promising/talented young players.

So what's that different compared to us at the start of next year? I think we have a pretty good list of promising/talented young players mixed with a number of ageing elites....

How potential transfers into real performance is dependent ona number of factors, which we can predict at this stage.