Could the Bombers cost us pick 3

[Cairnsman]

If it all turns pair shaped for the Bombers would we be awarded the 4 points from the Bombers game thus artificially strengthening our ladder position and denying us a pick 3?

[plugger66]

Doubt they will lose points. If found guilty they will just suspend the players and fine the club plenty of money. may also lose draft picks even though I doubt. reckon no hope of losing points for games already played. Anyway it will only effect sides who play them twice if that did happen or sides they lost to. doubt anyone is near us in that situation.

[saintspremiers]

If it all turns pair shaped for the Bombers would we be awarded the 4 points from the Bombers game thus artificially strengthening our ladder position and denying us a pick 3?

Possibly, but other teams would get 4 points also that they beat.

[bigcarl]

If it all turns pair shaped for the Bombers would we be awarded the 4 points from the Bombers game thus artificially strengthening our ladder position and denying us a pick 3?

They'll lose points and draft picks IMO. There has to be a penalty.

[CURLY]

Would Essendon really care if they lost draft picks? They'll trade some excess talls for what they lose and still have the two years extra development in the young group through cheating.

[Megamaguire]

They already cost us a valuable pick (was it Pick 16 - Nat Draft?) for their cast off player who didn't actually register a game with the Saints.
Annoyingly they were aided and abetted by K. Sheedy in closing the deal.
Could they damage ST. Kilda's efforts at rebuilding - I don't see why not!

HANG IN THERE SAINTS!

[samuraisaint]

But if we get our four points back, then so will everybody else they've beaten. Anyway, never happen. After what Watson said last night, if they get found guilty they will cop a lot more than just losing match points.

[gringo]

It will still be in court when Milney is well and truly finished his career and seen off his court case. They will try to amend the 2012 season records give them a fine. Hird and all the no nothings will still be there and they will give 6 months to all the players involved after round 23 or later if the bombers make finals. They should be back for the start of 2014 just no able to train at the club.

[Wayne42]

I wish this long drawn out banned substance process would end so that we didn't have to speculate on the punishment, we could laugh instead.

[defacto]

If it all turns pair shaped for the Bombers would we be awarded the 4 points from the Bombers game thus artificially strengthening our ladder position and denying us a pick 3?

they would be penalised points, teams that faced them would not be awarded points, as its not possible in an uneven draw

[desertsaint]

Jove should lose his brownlow. Essendon all points this season. All players on the juice suspended for next season.
The problem comes because some teams play them twice. The fairest would be to award all teams points for the first meeting, and the game outcome for the second - but if they beat them the first time they should get the points for both games. Not ideal, but how else?

[groupie1]

If it all turns pair shaped for the Bombers would we be awarded the 4 points from the Bombers game thus artificially strengthening our ladder position and denying us a pick 3?

Possibly, but other teams would get 4 points also that they beat.

Surely the Dons just get stripped of points in that scenario. The points don't then go to the teams they beat. The points just disappear. Yes?

[Hurricane]

When the Melbourne Storm got stung for the salary cap they lost all their points but the teams they beat didn't get those points back. They just fell into a black hole. They surely wouldn't figure in the draft if that happens to them (and I think it should)

BANG BANG

[saintspremiers]

When the Melbourne Storm got stung for the salary cap they lost all their points but the teams they beat didn't get those points back. They just fell into a black hole. They surely wouldn't figure in the draft if that happens to them (and I think it should)

BANG BANG

I could never envisage the AFL of stripping all points or any for that matter. It will be either draft pick penalties, fines or player suspensions.

[Old Mate]

Doubt they will lose points. If found guilty they will just suspend the players and fine the club plenty of money. may also lose draft picks even though I doubt. reckon no hope of losing points for games already played. Anyway it will only effect sides who play them twice if that did happen or sides they lost to. doubt anyone is near us in that situation.

When athletes have been sanctioned in the past we've seen their awards, medals, wins etc taken away from them. Assuming multiple Essendon players are charged I see the club being charged as a sporting organisation not as the individual players and because of this I suspect every win over the doping period will be taken away from them. I also suspect draft penalties will apply because no way do they lose all points this year finishing 18th and receive pick 1 in the National Draft. I suspect it'll be similar to the Storm where they lose points however the other teams don't get wins for the games they played against them. If we are looking at past case law with WADA then I see no alternative.

[plugger66]

Doubt they will lose points. If found guilty they will just suspend the players and fine the club plenty of money. may also lose draft picks even though I doubt. reckon no hope of losing points for games already played. Anyway it will only effect sides who play them twice if that did happen or sides they lost to. doubt anyone is near us in that situation.

When athletes have been sanctioned in the past we've seen their awards, medals, wins etc taken away from them. Assuming multiple Essendon players are charged I see the club being charged as a sporting organisation not as the individual players and because of this I suspect every win over the doping period will be taken away from them. I also suspect draft penalties will apply because no way do they lose all points this year finishing 18th and receive pick 1 in the National Draft. I suspect it'll be similar to the Storm where they lose points however the other teams don't get wins for the games they played against them. If we are looking at past case law with WADA then I see no alternative.

So what is the period. last year and this year or just last year when they have admitted use. They wont lose points for this year. Not a hope IMO. And as you say even if they did no one will get them. And ASADA wont be involved in this. Im sure that will be an AFL decision. Happy for me to show me where a team has lost points or something similar.

[Old Mate]

Plugger the reason why longterm suspensions are handed down as sanctions is to get players out of competition who have a lasting performance enhancement from their substance use. Which leads me to my next statement; They used gear last year but will still reap the benefits this year.

I suspect the penalty of loss of wins, medals etc will apply for the period they admitted to taking AOD (end of 2011 I think) until when the sanctions are given (which will likely be mid Aug). Anything and everything that Essendon won in that period will be stripped IMO, including Jobe's Charlie.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

if they were to strip them of points i doubt they would give point to the other teams ... i think essendon would just go back to 0 points

[plugger66]

Plugger the reason why longterm suspensions are handed down as sanctions is to get players out of competition who have a lasting performance enhancement from their substance use. Which leads me to my next statement; They used gear last year but will still reap the benefits this year.

I suspect the penalty of loss of wins, medals etc will apply for the period they admitted to taking AOD (end of 2011 I think) until when the sanctions are given (which will likely be mid Aug). Anything and everything that Essendon won in that period will be stripped IMO, including Jobe's Charlie.

And if they are 5th or 6th this year when they strip the points then whats the penalty? They cant win the flag from there anyway so big deal they finish last. If they are to take points off essendon the only real penalty is next year not this or last year. And I reckon people get 2 years because that is the penalty and its not to get stuff out of the system.

[savatage]

Plugger the reason why longterm suspensions are handed down as sanctions is to get players out of competition who have a lasting performance enhancement from their substance use.

Unfortunately the enhancements could last for as long as they keep training hard.

If the supplements have got them over a certain plateau - then they'll keep going and adding strength & more size with time.

Pretty much any body builder that was on the juice would be able to attest to this.

[Heidelberg_Saint]

I'm not asking for much but I hope for the following:
* 2013 points reduced to zero and Bombers awarded the wooden spoon;
* no draft selections until Round 5;
* fine them $15 mil;
* club goes bankrupt;
* BJ rejoins the Saints on the minimum wage.

[Wayne42]

One thing that has been made clear, any suspension does not mean they miss just the pre season, they must miss games in a season proper, that would
have rattled them momentarily, until Dimwit phoned them and told them to relax .