stronger or weaker

[stinger]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-11-28/y ... -movements



ST KILDA

INS: Blake Acres (d), Jack Billings (d), Josh Bruce (t), Luke Delaney (t), Luke Dunstan (d), Jason Holmes (r), Billy Longer (t), Shane Savage (t), Eli Templeton (r), Maverick Weller (r).

OUTS: Jason Blake (ret), Nick Dal Santo (f/a), Jackson Ferguson (del), Justin Koschitzke (ret), Tom Ledger (del), Jay Lever (del), Ben McEvoy (t), Stephen Milne (ret), Ahmed Saad (del), Jordan Staley (del).

STRENGTHS: The Saints are rebuilding and will enter 2014 with 10 new players, a new coach and a refreshed outlook after a disastrous season. Alan Richardson will lead them into a new era, which has a promising foundation given they addressed backline deficiencies in the exchange period with Delaney and Bruce, compensated for McEvoy's loss with the up-and-coming Longer and added plenty of midfield depth using trade and the drafts.

WEAKNESSES: They've essentially replaced 1083 combined games of experience with 10 players who have played 137 between them, which leaves them vulnerable against the bigger-bodied and stronger sides. They're also going to back Longer and Tom Hickey to shoulder the ruck load after passing on seasoned ruckman Darren Jolly as a mature-aged rookie. But, they've plugged holes and now have the opportunity to develop these young players where they want to, with a new coach calling the shots. - Jennifer Phelan

[bobmurray]

The evolution is on, it will take time, hopefully the list guys don't make too many mistakes along the way, hopefully, all the players recruited over the last year or 2
step up and become good AFL players.

[Spinner]

Weaker.

[stinger]

Weaker.

in the short term...yes...

[magnifisaint]

Longer

[BigMart]

Depends on injury

Also in
Sam Fisher, Adam Schnieder, Sam Gilbert, B.Maister, D. Markworth.. All missed more than a dozen games in 2013

Curran, Wright, Murdoch, Saunders, Siposs, Newnes, Ross, Webster.... Will al be better players in 2014

[Teflon]

Whose new coach - Jennifer Phelan ?

[Sainternist]

The Milne, Dal, Blake and McEvoy departures leave a massive void. Unfortunately that void can't be filled immediately. Hence the process of rebuilding the team is now in full swing.

[The Fireman]

Dal, Milne, Blake, McEvoy .... considerably weaker.
But the question is not a valid one considering the untried Ins. so how can we know if we are stronger..as a matter of fact I don't even know why I bothered.

[bergholt]

Pretty obviously weaker next year, but better placed to be stronger in 2016/2017.

[Statsman]

In reality it's really only Dal Santo, Milne and McEvoy we have to replace as the other omissions weren't really contributing last year. Essentially Savage replaces Dal and Longer replaces McEvoy, but perhaps a short term downgrade in each case. We don't really have a ready made replacement for Milne, particularly with Saad being delisted too. A rotation of goal kicking midfielders resting up forward might fill the gap on the scoreboard.

On the flip side we have dramatically bolstered our midfield depth, albeit with young, skinny kids. We've also now got some size down back and don't have to send Gwilt to the slaughter against the gorilla forwards. Add to that a (hopefully) fit Gilbert and Schnieider plus a better team harmony under Richardson.

On balance, I wouldn't be surprised if we're slightly better next season.

[BigMart]

Statesman

Would you Say that Schnieder would replace Milne... Given he only player a couple....

Neither Milne or Blake were outstanding last season

McEvoy and Dal (especially Dal) are very good, but last year... They weren't dominant. At times were disappointing...

[HitTheBoundary]

I think with players like Dal (as it was with BJ) many of us won't realise how good he is until he's gone.
I've watched a few replays recently and noticed Dal a lot, doing lots of little things that I took for granted that will be missing next year. Hopefully someone steps up, but his ability to release a player in space with a perfect kick will be missed.

The other area we may be stretched (pun intended) is in the ruck. With all ruckman being young and inexperienced they will presumably be inconsistent, so we should expect some ups and downs in that area.

The positives of course will be all the new players, and the fact that we now have a few talls in the backline.

I expect Fisher to be a welcome surprise - returning to the intercept player that he was - and Gilbert to return to his AA form.

Throw in some of the young guys and some up and down performances and I think we'll be better than last year but still in the bottom third of the ladder.

[stinger]

In reality it's really only Dal Santo, Milne and McEvoy we have to replace as the other omissions weren't really contributing last year. Essentially Savage replaces Dal and Longer replaces McEvoy, but perhaps a short term downgrade in each case. We don't really have a ready made replacement for Milne, particularly with Saad being delisted too. A rotation of goal kicking midfielders resting up forward might fill the gap on the scoreboard.

On the flip side we have dramatically bolstered our midfield depth, albeit with young, skinny kids. We've also now got some size down back and don't have to send Gwilt to the slaughter against the gorilla forwards. Add to that a (hopefully) fit Gilbert and Schnieider plus a better team harmony under Richardson.

On balance, I wouldn't be surprised if we're slightly better next season.

new coach might achieve that...but noone anywhere near dals value at the moment...or milney's...take longer 2 or 3 years to get up to mcevoy as well.....

[HitTheBoundary]

new coach might achieve that...

This is the big unknown.

I'm hoping that "The Richo factor" will cause a big turn around in both on field and off field fortunes.

But I am a glass half full person...

[BigMart]

Are we talking Milne and Dal 2013.... Both were down on career form

Longer could overtake McEvoy quicker than we realise.... Brodie Grundy passed Jolly in his first season

[Zed]

I know this sounds like Im contradicting myself, but I think we are weaker in the sort term but we are also more even ie We have more options now across the ground, but many of those options are still developing players.

[Richter]

Check out the influx of new blood since the 2010 Grand final - just over 3 years ago....

IN: Sippos, Simpkin, Curren, Ross, Markworth, Newnes, Webster, Maister, Dunnel, Shenton, Minchington, Milera, Wright, White, Murdoch, Saunders, Pierce, Roberton, Lee, Hickey, Billings, Dunstan, Acres, Templeton, Weller, Holmes, Savage, Longer, Bruce, Delaney

OUT: Hutchings, McGrath, Pattinson, Smith, Eddy, Miles, Lynch, Walsh, Gardiner, Baker, McQualter, Johnson, Cahill, Gamble, Heyne, Smith, Polo, Peake, Archer, Goddard, Gram, Winmar, McEvoy, Dal Santo, Blake, Koschitzke, Milne

That's 30 new players on the list in just over 3 years. And that list doesn't include a few like Ledger, Crocker, Andreoli, Saad, Staley, Ferguson, Lever who came on to and left the list during that 3 year period too.

[maverick]

Stronger

[SaintPav]

We could be stronger next year. We only won 5 games. We could win 6-8 games next year.

[saintsRrising]

Well Schneider, Fisher and Gilbert all had big injury problems last year.

Having 2 big tall back will make a big difference, as big forwards monstered us last year. It also means that Fisher, Gilbo, Gwilt (if he makes the 22) can all play flanks and not KP.

Dal is a loss. But was often off HB last year...so with Fisher and Robo free to be flankers setting up play this will be masked somewhat. Curren Ross and the other young mids etc should step up more.

Rucks: If Hickey and Longer can improve, and they should then our tap ruckwork should be a plus.
Milne is a loss, but if Schneider can be a regular that will cancel out.

Roo will be Roo. Lee and Stanley should improve as key forwards with Maister and option too.
What we need is for one of the medium forward such as Markworth or Siposs to step up.

Billings would be a chance to have some impact in his first year.

Overall I think our balance and structure is much better. Our midfield is still lacking till more of the youngster bloom. But all in all I think we will win more games next year than this year.

[stinger]

Well Schneider, Fisher and Gilbert all had big injury problems last year.

Having 2 big tall back will make a big difference, as big forwards monstered us last year. It also means that Fisher, Gilbo, Gwilt (if he makes the 22) can all play flanks and not KP.

Dal is a loss. But was often off HB last year...so with Fisher and Robo free to be flankers setting up play this will be masked somewhat. Curren Ross and the other young mids etc should step up more.

Rucks: If Hickey and Longer can improve, and they should then our tap ruckwork should be a plus.
Milne is a loss, but if Schneider can be a regular that will cancel out.

Roo will be Roo. Lee and Stanley should improve as key forwards with Maister and option too.
What we need is for one of the medium forward such as Markworth or Siposs to step up.

Billings would be a chance to have some impact in his first year.

Overall I think our balance and structure is much better. Our midfield is still lacking till more of the youngster bloom. But all in all I think we will win more games next year than this year.

all very valid comments....imho

[Dave McNamara]

A few years down the track... stronger... I'm looking at 2018 for that flag!

But next year... notably stronger also:
Rucks stronger. (Sorry Owl, but something went wrong after that wonderful first game against the paperbaggers. )

Defence should be instantly stronger now we have a couple of big defenders. Firstly, there will be less bags kicked against us by the power forwards.
Secondly, the likes of Fisher, Gilbert, Gwilt will be freed up to get back to what they do best... third man up, and then rebounding.

Dal will be a loss, but not so much the 2013 'cruise control mode' Dal. Milney will also be a loss, but as pointed out, Schniedes' hardly played last year.
Circa 2012 Ahmed would be a loss, but the clearly distracted (worried) 2013 Ahmed isn't.

In summary, rucks and on ball I reckon will improve, forwardline will probably also improve, defence (tightness and hence rebound) will improve massively... If one goes through the manner in which we were beaten in many games last year... that defence improvement alone should make a huge difference.

So don't go pencilling in an automatic top-six draft pick for next season... I reckon we can push up to mid table.

[plugger66]

Weaker. we have lost one of our best on ballers and has not been replaced. we have lost Milne and not been replaced unless Schneider can have a full year which is doubtful. we have lost and best bigman and not been replaced next season but maybe in the future. We have picked up to big backs which help but i aint getting excited by Delaney and Bruce could be a year or two away but I think he could be good. As im a huge believer that the game is about the midfield and we have lost 2 there I cant see us being better than 5 wins. Another reason is I cant think of many sides we can actually beat. The changes this year have weakened us but IMO have made the rebuild happen a bit earlier than I expected. Bottom 3 for the next 2 seasons and then onwards and upwards. Top 8 in 2018 and hopefully top 4 the next season.

[stinger]

you are a dreamer dave,,,,but good on you...hope you are right... to me milne and dal are irreplaceable.......