Hitouts/Clearances vs Geelong

[samoht]

We won the clearances 38 to 31 - after being "smashed" in the hitouts 63 to 21 - that's 3 to 1!
So much for the importance of hitouts!

We need a ruckman who can gather 15-20 possessions around the ground - who can contribute that way.

[bergholt]

We won the clearances 38 to 31 - after being "smashed" in the hitouts 63 to 21 - that's 3 to 1!
So much for the importance of hitouts!

We need a ruckman who can gather 15-20 possessions around the ground - who can contribute that way.

We won the clearances 38 to 31 and lost by 100 points. So much for the importance of clearances.

[magnifisaint]

We won the clearances 38 to 31 - after being "smashed" in the hitouts 63 to 21 - that's 3 to 1!
So much for the importance of hitouts!

We need a ruckman who can gather 15-20 possessions around the ground - who can contribute that way.

We won the clearances 38 to 31 and lost by 100 points. So much for the importance of clearances.

I'd like to know what our turnovers are?

When we get it we butcher it so what hope have we got.

[spert]

Regardless of hitouts and clearances, the huge problem for too much of the season, is we are not getting our hands on the ball enough to even be competitive. It shows we are either losing individual contests, or not making a contest at all- and the latter seems to be more evident in the last couple of months.

The stats against Geelong look bad- overall we had 73 less possessions than the Cats and that is huge..it means the opposition are getting hands on ball 73 more times than us. In the 2nd and 3rd quarter, it appears the team threw in the towel after losing the 1st quarter too easily, as we had a total of 57 less disposals in that period, and the midfield just didn't get enough of the ball, though in typical fashion, tried to make up in the last quarter,(the opposition also took foot of the pedal) and evened up the disposals. Steven needs to lift his game- he doesn't look switched on, and I don't think by now it is a fitness issue, same goes for Montagna.

The number of loose, un-pressured opposition players around any given contest was yet again obvious is something that AR needs to work on..the defensive game is practically non-existent.

I don't mind players making a contest and losing possession- as is expected with younger inexperienced players, but when a contest doesn't happen at all, then there is a deeper problem and it is mainly motivational.

[plugger66]

Regardless of hitouts and clearances, the huge problem for too much of the season, is we are not getting our hands on the ball enough to even be competitive. It shows we are either losing individual contests, or not making a contest at all- and the latter seems to be more evident in the last couple of months.

The stats against Geelong look bad- overall we had 73 less possessions than the Cats and that is huge..it means the opposition are getting hands on ball 73 more times than us. In the 2nd and 3rd quarter, it appears the team threw in the towel after losing the 1st quarter too easily, as we had a total of 57 less disposals in that period, and the midfield just didn't get enough of the ball, though in typical fashion, tried to make up in the last quarter,(the opposition also took foot of the pedal) and evened up the disposals. Steven needs to lift his game- he doesn't look switched on, and I don't think by now it is a fitness issue, same goes for Montagna.

The number of loose, un-pressured opposition players around any given contest was yet again obvious is something that AR needs to work on..the defensive game is practically non-existent.

I don't mind players making a contest and losing possession- as is expected with younger inexperienced players, but when a contest doesn't happen at all, then there is a deeper problem and it is mainly motivational.

Come out with it Spert. You have been beating around the edges for a few weeks now. Do you think our coach is a dud and should we again sack another coach?

[sunsaint]

We need a ruckman who can gather 15-20 possessions around the ground - who can contribute that way.

I thought we had one that no one thought was any good - didnt we shop him ?

[plugger66]

We need a ruckman who can gather 15-20 possessions around the ground - who can contribute that way.

I thought we had one that no one thought was any good - didnt we shop him ?

Im pretty sure we did. it made some happy because he didnt get enough hitouts. We now play a young kid who may or may not make it who averages one mark a game and about 6 possessions a game but he does jmp nicely.

[SainterK]

We need a ruckman who can gather 15-20 possessions around the ground - who can contribute that way.

I thought we had one that no one thought was any good - didnt we shop him ?

How about one that can do both?

Too much to ask?

Hickey was blossoming nicely prior to injury, comfy with that decision.

[samoht]

Hickey is clearly our best ruckman, SainterK - and what makes him good has little to do with how many hitouts he wins.
I'm comfy with that decision too (as long as he proves durable).
But Longer needs to do a lot more around the ground.

[Spinner]

We won the clearances 38 to 31 - after being "smashed" in the hitouts 63 to 21 - that's 3 to 1!
So much for the importance of hitouts!

We need a ruckman who can gather 15-20 possessions around the ground - who can contribute that way.

We won the clearances 38 to 31 and lost by 100 points. So much for the importance of clearances.

Please start a new thread when this occurs bergholt.

[BigMart]

Hickey was flying.....

I am sick of putting up his actual numbers vs his opponents. He was better than Longer who has been surprisingly terrible ... But far from good....

This is a guy who less than his opponents by some margin in every category?

Go figure.

[plugger66]

Hickey was flying.....

I am sick of putting up his actual numbers vs his opponents. He was better than Longer who has been surprisingly terrible ... But far from good....

This is a guy who less than his opponents by some margin in every category?

Go figure.

Now im trying to work this out BM. Are you saying Hickey was flying? because I cant see anyone else who said it. I reckon you are wrong with that statement. i dont reckon he was flying but he was doing pretty good for a guy who hasnt played a lot of footy and as you know a lot of ruckman can take time to make it. So I think you are wrong on this. hickey wasnt flying.

[spert]

Regardless of hitouts and clearances, the huge problem for too much of the season, is we are not getting our hands on the ball enough to even be competitive. It shows we are either losing individual contests, or not making a contest at all- and the latter seems to be more evident in the last couple of months.

The stats against Geelong look bad- overall we had 73 less possessions than the Cats and that is huge..it means the opposition are getting hands on ball 73 more times than us. In the 2nd and 3rd quarter, it appears the team threw in the towel after losing the 1st quarter too easily, as we had a total of 57 less disposals in that period, and the midfield just didn't get enough of the ball, though in typical fashion, tried to make up in the last quarter,(the opposition also took foot of the pedal) and evened up the disposals. Steven needs to lift his game- he doesn't look switched on, and I don't think by now it is a fitness issue, same goes for Montagna.

The number of loose, un-pressured opposition players around any given contest was yet again obvious is something that AR needs to work on..the defensive game is practically non-existent.

I don't mind players making a contest and losing possession- as is expected with younger inexperienced players, but when a contest doesn't happen at all, then there is a deeper problem and it is mainly motivational.

Come out with it Spert. You have been beating around the edges for a few weeks now. Do you think our coach is a dud and should we again sack another coach?

Well p66, I see AR as a good guy who is probably a good assistant coach, but ain't got the goods as a head coach. The club clearly wanted a media friendly, corporate friendly person rather than give Watters a free reign which sometimes means standing on people's toes to get results. The club won't sack another coach and look even more stupid than last time, or blow more money in the process. That's it in a nutshell, and now we are living the dream.

[plugger66]

Regardless of hitouts and clearances, the huge problem for too much of the season, is we are not getting our hands on the ball enough to even be competitive. It shows we are either losing individual contests, or not making a contest at all- and the latter seems to be more evident in the last couple of months.

The stats against Geelong look bad- overall we had 73 less possessions than the Cats and that is huge..it means the opposition are getting hands on ball 73 more times than us. In the 2nd and 3rd quarter, it appears the team threw in the towel after losing the 1st quarter too easily, as we had a total of 57 less disposals in that period, and the midfield just didn't get enough of the ball, though in typical fashion, tried to make up in the last quarter,(the opposition also took foot of the pedal) and evened up the disposals. Steven needs to lift his game- he doesn't look switched on, and I don't think by now it is a fitness issue, same goes for Montagna.

The number of loose, un-pressured opposition players around any given contest was yet again obvious is something that AR needs to work on..the defensive game is practically non-existent.

I don't mind players making a contest and losing possession- as is expected with younger inexperienced players, but when a contest doesn't happen at all, then there is a deeper problem and it is mainly motivational.

Come out with it Spert. You have been beating around the edges for a few weeks now. Do you think our coach is a dud and should we again sack another coach?

Well p66, I see AR as a good guy who is probably a good assistant coach, but ain't got the goods as a head coach. The club clearly wanted a media friendly, corporate friendly person rather than give Watters a free reign which sometimes means standing on people's toes to get results. The club won't sack another coach and look even more stupid than last time, or blow more money in the process. That's it in a nutshell, and now we are living the dream.

I thought i knew a bit about footy but obviously not as much as you because i have no idea after 12 games if he cant coach. I would be pretty sure knowing most coaches history at our club and many others that you will eventually get your wish. can you tell us how all the set ups are wrong and what other issues are problems because i just dont see it at the games and on TV.

[dragit]

Just a few other games this weekend, for a bit of fun.

hawks won hit outs & clearances - won match
Port won hit outs and clearances - just lost
eagles won hit outs & clearances - just won
gws won hitouts & clearances - won match
north won hit outs were even for clearances - lost match
dogs won hit outs & clearances - won match

We just need to find a ruckman that has the skills of Dal Santo, pace of Jetta, contested marks like Cloke and rucks like Sandliands… should be easy.

[BigMart]

Our use of the ball is terrible!

You cannot win games of footy when your midfield half back line just chunks it!!

I mean... Ray, Steven, Jones, through the middle win the footy enough and butcher it
Armitage, Dunstan and Hayes due to the type of footy they win, aren't going to be hugely efficient.
Joey is not always reliable
Newnes and Webster a supposedly good kicks, and like Gram was lauded.... They pull off high level deep kicks occasionally... But they also miss many targets and actually unreliable.
Dempster is a sound long kick... But not a good user.

Plus our complete lack of forward structure means kicking it to a target is nigh on impossible!

[Rosco]

We just need to find a ruckman that has the skills of Dal Santo, pace of Jetta, contested marks like Cloke and rucks like Sandliands… should be easy.

This ruckman you speak of doesn't kick enough goals

[shmic_s]

Ball use definitely an issue, combine that with average defense and you get the results from the past few weeks.
Look at the stats for marks and uncontested possessions, smashed.

[Spinner]

Just a few other games this weekend, for a bit of fun.

hawks won hit outs & clearances - won match
Port won hit outs and clearances - just lost
eagles won hit outs & clearances - just won
gws won hitouts & clearances - won match
north won hit outs were even for clearances - lost match
dogs won hit outs & clearances - won match

We just need to find a ruckman that has the skills of Dal Santo, pace of Jetta, contested marks like Cloke and rucks like Sandliands… should be easy.

Thanks Dragit - could you please start 6 threads for the pro hit outs... Or 5 and one 'unsure' thread more precisely.

[spert]

Regardless of hitouts and clearances, the huge problem for too much of the season, is we are not getting our hands on the ball enough to even be competitive. It shows we are either losing individual contests, or not making a contest at all- and the latter seems to be more evident in the last couple of months.

The stats against Geelong look bad- overall we had 73 less possessions than the Cats and that is huge..it means the opposition are getting hands on ball 73 more times than us. In the 2nd and 3rd quarter, it appears the team threw in the towel after losing the 1st quarter too easily, as we had a total of 57 less disposals in that period, and the midfield just didn't get enough of the ball, though in typical fashion, tried to make up in the last quarter,(the opposition also took foot of the pedal) and evened up the disposals. Steven needs to lift his game- he doesn't look switched on, and I don't think by now it is a fitness issue, same goes for Montagna.

The number of loose, un-pressured opposition players around any given contest was yet again obvious is something that AR needs to work on..the defensive game is practically non-existent.

I don't mind players making a contest and losing possession- as is expected with younger inexperienced players, but when a contest doesn't happen at all, then there is a deeper problem and it is mainly motivational.

Come out with it Spert. You have been beating around the edges for a few weeks now. Do you think our coach is a dud and should we again sack another coach?

Well p66, I see AR as a good guy who is probably a good assistant coach, but ain't got the goods as a head coach. The club clearly wanted a media friendly, corporate friendly person rather than give Watters a free reign which sometimes means standing on people's toes to get results. The club won't sack another coach and look even more stupid than last time, or blow more money in the process. That's it in a nutshell, and now we are living the dream.[/quo

I thought i knew a bit about footy but obviously not as much as you because i have no idea after 12 games if he cant coach. I would be pretty sure knowing most coaches history at our club and many others that you will eventually get your wish. can you tell us how all the set ups are wrong and what other issues are problems because i just dont see it at the games and on TV.

Well mate, I go to the games and up close the only thing that keeps coming to my mind is- headless chicken. Our young guys have good talent and are fit, the old guys have much experience under their belts, but nobody seems to know what they are supposed to be doing, where they are supposed to be standing, and don't run to make contests and making basic football errors- after 12 games I expect a coach is starting to get that sorted. A Geelong friend who is a good junior coach jokingly mentioned to me the other day "is anyone actually coaching your mob, even your old blokes are playing like undisciplined schoolkid footballers". What could I say.

[Legendary]

Mate it wasn't about Watters stepping on people's toes.

It was about two assistants, two key fitness staff and half our playing group holding a meeting at half time in a match last year, where the consensus was that they should all drive home and forfeit the game because of how bad he was.

Surely 15 odd blokes plus two assistants who have played under and worked with over 12 coaches, fitness staff who have worked with a number of coaches and players who have played under 3-4+ senior coaches have a clue about whether a senior coach is decent or not?

Were they all wrong?

This wasn't about SW stepping on their toes. It was about an abysmal lack of communication skills, not understanding the very basics of football, bizarre and unexplained decision-making, contemptible treatment of staff who deserved respect and an unwillingness to listen to anyone.

These are not stories from players who didn't like SW. They are stories from senior management at the club who had a vested interest in SW succeeding, but were forced to accept the reality of the situation.

Whatever you think of Richardson - please stop pretending that SW should not have been sacked.

If he had stayed at the club, we would have had to replace every assistant coach, our VFL/head of development, nearly every member of the fitness department and 4-5 players would have publicly asked for a trade (in the same way they did at Brisbane). These numbers are not exaggerated.

You cannot continue to employ someone when they have that sort of effect on an organisation.

Or are you suggesting that we should have allowed that to continue?

[bergholt]

Our young guys have good talent and are fit, the old guys have much experience under their belts, but nobody seems to know what they are supposed to be doing, where they are supposed to be standing, and don't run to make contests and making basic football errors- after 12 games I expect a coach is starting to get that sorted.

Ross Lyon had a much better list of players, but he won 4 of his first 11 and barely broke even in 07 with 11 wins. His second season saw improvement but we still got thumped in two finals. Personally I wasn't feeling very optimistic at the end of 08. Then finally in 09 after he'd coached 47 AFL games it all came together.

And let me repeat, he had a much, much better list. I think Richo gets more than 12 games for me to decide that he can't coach.

[Spinner]

Mate it wasn't about Watters stepping on people's toes.

It was about two assistants, two key fitness staff and half our playing group holding a meeting at half time in a match last year, where the consensus was that they should all drive home and forfeit the game because of how bad he was.

Surely 15 odd blokes plus two assistants who have played under and worked with over 12 coaches, fitness staff who have worked with a number of coaches and players who have played under 3-4+ senior coaches have a clue about whether a senior coach is decent or not?

Were they all wrong?

This wasn't about SW stepping on their toes. It was about an abysmal lack of communication skills, not understanding the very basics of football, bizarre and unexplained decision-making, contemptible treatment of staff who deserved respect and an unwillingness to listen to anyone.

These are not stories from players who didn't like SW. They are stories from senior management at the club who had a vested interest in SW succeeding, but were forced to accept the reality of the situation.

Whatever you think of Richardson - please stop pretending that SW should not have been sacked.

If he had stayed at the club, we would have had to replace every assistant coach, our VFL/head of development, nearly every member of the fitness department and 4-5 players would have publicly asked for a trade (in the same way they did at Brisbane). These numbers are not exaggerated.

You cannot continue to employ someone when they have that sort of effect on an organisation.

Or are you suggesting that we should have allowed that to continue?

Wow! This is astounding!

Thanks for sharing!

[spert]

Mate it wasn't about Watters stepping on people's toes.

It was about two assistants, two key fitness staff and half our playing group holding a meeting at half time in a match last year, where the consensus was that they should all drive home and forfeit the game because of how bad he was.

Surely 15 odd blokes plus two assistants who have played under and worked with over 12 coaches, fitness staff who have worked with a number of coaches and players who have played under 3-4+ senior coaches have a clue about whether a senior coach is decent or not?

Were they all wrong?

This wasn't about SW stepping on their toes. It was about an abysmal lack of communication skills, not understanding the very basics of football, bizarre and unexplained decision-making, contemptible treatment of staff who deserved respect and an unwillingness to listen to anyone.

These are not stories from players who didn't like SW. They are stories from senior management at the club who had a vested interest in SW succeeding, but were forced to accept the reality of the situation.

Whatever you think of Richardson - please stop pretending that SW should not have been sacked.

If he had stayed at the club, we would have had to replace every assistant coach, our VFL/head of development, nearly every member of the fitness department and 4-5 players would have publicly asked for a trade (in the same way they did at Brisbane). These numbers are not exaggerated.

You cannot continue to employ someone when they have that sort of effect on an organisation.

Or are you suggesting that we should have allowed that to continue?

Wow! This is astounding!

Thanks for sharing!

Well that just goes to show me why we were losing last season and losing badly this season- a bunch of players who have such a weak mindset and lack of leadership with so little pride in their club and jumper, that they sooked it to everybody instead of getting off their lazy ar#$ and playing their guts out for a win- they took the weak option. Who was captain that day? did the captain get up at half time and address his team about the importance of winning for the club, about pride, about making a massive effort in the second half to bring a win home for the club and supporters- apparently not..lets go home because Scott told us we were playing on our reputations and we are overrated...and that is the problem with our club. Sort of strange I think, they were coached by a man who took a club to a premiership in WA, was chosen by the wealthiest club in the comp who could have hired any assistant they wanted, and was a highly regarded, popular and successful assistant at Collingwood (from the horses mouth thanks) when they won the premiership over us- and once moving to St Kilda knows nothing about football, can't communicate with players , is an ogre etc etc. what a load of cr@p. The trouble is that our club has a history of this rubbish, and I have to wonder why I tolerate it decade after decade, why I stood in the boggy outer at Moorabbin years ago while players were playing with huge hangovers from partying the night before and getting thrashed- the tail wagged the dog then and still does.

[plugger66]

Mate it wasn't about Watters stepping on people's toes.

It was about two assistants, two key fitness staff and half our playing group holding a meeting at half time in a match last year, where the consensus was that they should all drive home and forfeit the game because of how bad he was.

Surely 15 odd blokes plus two assistants who have played under and worked with over 12 coaches, fitness staff who have worked with a number of coaches and players who have played under 3-4+ senior coaches have a clue about whether a senior coach is decent or not?

Were they all wrong?

This wasn't about SW stepping on their toes. It was about an abysmal lack of communication skills, not understanding the very basics of football, bizarre and unexplained decision-making, contemptible treatment of staff who deserved respect and an unwillingness to listen to anyone.

These are not stories from players who didn't like SW. They are stories from senior management at the club who had a vested interest in SW succeeding, but were forced to accept the reality of the situation.

Whatever you think of Richardson - please stop pretending that SW should not have been sacked.

If he had stayed at the club, we would have had to replace every assistant coach, our VFL/head of development, nearly every member of the fitness department and 4-5 players would have publicly asked for a trade (in the same way they did at Brisbane). These numbers are not exaggerated.

You cannot continue to employ someone when they have that sort of effect on an organisation.

Or are you suggesting that we should have allowed that to continue?

Wow! This is astounding!

Thanks for sharing!

Well that just goes to show me why we were losing last season and losing badly this season- a bunch of players who have such a weak mindset and lack of leadership with so little pride in their club and jumper, that they sooked it to everybody instead of getting off their lazy ar#$ and playing their guts out for a win- they took the weak option. Who was captain that day? did the captain get up at half time and address his team about the importance of winning for the club, about pride, about making a massive effort in the second half to bring a win home for the club and supporters- apparently not..lets go home because Scott told us we were playing on our reputations and we are overrated...and that is the problem with our club. Sort of strange I think, they were coached by a man who took a club to a premiership in WA, was chosen by the wealthiest club in the comp who could have hired any assistant they wanted, and was a highly regarded, popular and successful assistant at Collingwood (from the horses mouth thanks) when they won the premiership over us- and once moving to St Kilda knows nothing about football, can't communicate with players , is an ogre etc etc. what a load of cr@p. The trouble is that our club has a history of this rubbish, and I have to wonder why I tolerate it decade after decade, why I stood in the boggy outer at Moorabbin years ago while players were playing with huge hangovers from partying the night before and getting thrashed- the tail wagged the dog then and still does.

What we have a history of is supporters and the club blaming the coach all the time and wanting him sacked. You are basically doing it again. 12 games of footy with injuries and a much worse list than last season gets you 3 wins for the season. Who do you class as the best coach in the AFL at the moment. many would say Clarkson. Well in his first year they won 5 games after winning 9 the previous year. Not saying you but the likes of you would have wanted him sacked but the Hawks stuck fat and it paid off and the hawks list was about 10 times better than our current list.