is wowserism alive at the saints?

[6621104]

Should a glass of wine at dinner, special occasion or no, result in a player being suspended? And before all the slippery slope nonsense and straw man arguments about drinking to excess, I am more interested in how intrusive clubs can become in the manner in which their players live. Should we cut these guys some slack and accept that they sacrifice a lot and that excessive restrictions that are clearly purely a demonstration of a capacity to control should have no place in the private lives of any employee, football player or no.
A glass of wine is harmless so how has it come about that it attracts sanctions? Why do we force players to agree to something most of us would find impossible to follow through?
Are they forced?- the group think mentality is a form of coercion (just ask the bomber players) that some clubs know how to manipulate very well.
As long as they turn up ready to go, in the condition the club expects then who should care what went on the night before?

[SainterK]

Works the other way too, Billings needed some support with his stance of not drinking and feeling pressured by the boys offering.

I think it's not too much to ask.

As for the suns, the part that worried me was Dixon admitting he needed red wine to sleep. He may need some actual help.

[Enrico_Misso]

I think the crime was not having a glass of wine to relax before bed.
Rather it was breaking their agreement with their teammates.
It was a breach of trust.

[bigred]

Getting on it the night before a game is just inexcusable.

They should not be pro sportsmen if they cannot stay off it the night before a game.

[Enrico_Misso]

Like the NSW Premier who lied about receiving a minor gift.
It wasn't receiving the gift.
It was lying about it.
Ended his career.

[HitTheBoundary]

As I recall from a book on AFL history, in the early 1900's (?) it was not unusual for players to have a beer at 3/4 time to energise themselves for the last quarter.

Times have changed.

[Toy Saint]

Getting on it the night before a game is just inexcusable.

They should not be pro sportsmen if they cannot stay off it the night before a game.

Whats worse? Getting it on or Getting on it?

There is an arguement that a big night in the sack the night before the game may take the edge off.

Should the club have the right to ban sex, say 24, 48 hours before the game?

[bergholt]

People are individuals and should be treated like it.

Some shouldn't have a beer at any point during the season because they're proper binge-drinkers and won't be able to stop at one. Others might know that they feel and perform worse after having even a small amount of alcohol.

But for many, a glass of wine the night before a game might help them have a good night's sleep, with no effect on their performance except that they play better because they're more well rested.

The club should support them in monitoring their own bodies. How are they feeling, how are their metrics, how are they performing. Take all of that into account in any given situation. Maybe they discover that they shouldn't eat pasta on game day because it slows them down. Maybe they discover that they should have two beers after the game because it helps their recovery. Maybe they discover that they should have a strong coffee in the morning before training. Or that they shouldn't.

But each person should be responsible for their own performance because ultimately they're the ones who'll be judged and paid based on it.

The club should support them in monitoring it. And the playing group should support each other in keeping to good habits once they've been identified. If you commit to the playing group that you're not going to drink during the season then you should be supported in that and suspended or sanctioned if you have a beer. If you commit to the playing group that you're going to have a glass of wine to sleep better then night before a game and you don't do that then you should be suspended or sanctioned. Whatever it is.

Just treat them as individuals and help them as individuals to get the best out of themselves. If they're not mature enough to cope with that freedom then they'll be delisted soon enough.

[plugger66]

Its not about the glass of wine, its because they aren't allowed to drink before a game. Im sure a few do, well I know a few did, but they do it inside a home so they aren't caught. Its still the wrong thing to do because they are breaking a team rule. if they feel they need the glass of wine with dinner they should approach the whole playing group and explain why and then get permission. It was completely dumb and they should have been suspended for 3 weeks for being dumb. How the hell did they think they would get away with it?

Finally I love a drink but seriously how could you need to drink before a game is beyond me.

[gringo]

As I recall from a book on AFL history, in the early 1900's (?) it was not unusual for players to have a beer at 3/4 time to energise themselves for the last quarter.

Times have changed.

If you read Charles Dickens kids scoffed a couple beers for strength back intros days. Stout was for old folks to build up some immunity. Beer was like vitamins today. When I was young I was doing a lot of health loading. In the 1960s the guys who worked at CUB could knock back free product at work....while driving heavy machinery.

[dragit]

If these guys want to live an ordinary knockabout life where they can drink and do as they please then they need to choose a different career. Earning 100's of thousands of dollars a year to be an elite sportsman comes with being under the microscope with every decision they make.

Aside from being the night before a game, the Suns have already had a raft of players suspended over booze this year, it's not like they didn't know the rules.

Dixon not getting a kick on Saturday probably didn't help matters either.

[jonesy]

It said "a glass or two" friday night...which probably means 4-5.
Shambolic at the suns when two of your higher profile younger players are doing this the night before a game. Dixon twice now this year, he won't be there next year

[mullet]

662 says in his post that footballers sacrifice a lot. Well part of that "sacrifice" is giving up stuff that stops you performing at your best.
Whether that is drinking, staying up late playing play station, or giving up having late nights partying with your mates. The two players in question
didn't exactly set the world on fire the next day so can they honestly think they prepared the best they could.

They are paid really well to do their job and if they cant keep up their side of the bargain then they should get whats coming too them.

I know plenty of athletes who don't get paid and give up everything to achieve their dreams.

These guys are spoilt brats who need to learn what commitment is. Commitment to your sport and commitment to your work contract

[plugger66]

662 says in his post that footballers sacrifice a lot. Well part of that "sacrifice" is giving up stuff that stops you performing at your best.
Whether that is drinking, staying up late playing play station, or giving up having late nights partying with your mates. The two players in question
didn't exactly set the world on fire the next day so can they honestly think they prepared the best they could.

They are paid really well to do their job and if they cant keep up their side of the bargain then they should get whats coming too them.

I know plenty of athletes who don't get paid and give up everything to achieve their dreams.

These guys are spoilt brats who need to learn what commitment is. Commitment to your sport and commitment to your work contract

I suppose there would be plenty of people who work who aren't committed. I can honestly say I have never been committed to a job when I worked for others but I am when I work for myself. If you treat it as a team sport then you certainly should be committed as you are letting down others if you stuff up. I certainly couldn't do what a player has to do but then again I certainly aren't a elite athlete. Having said that its pathetic they had to drink a day before a game. That I could control.

[mullet]

662 says in his post that footballers sacrifice a lot. Well part of that "sacrifice" is giving up stuff that stops you performing at your best.
Whether that is drinking, staying up late playing play station, or giving up having late nights partying with your mates. The two players in question
didn't exactly set the world on fire the next day so can they honestly think they prepared the best they could.

They are paid really well to do their job and if they cant keep up their side of the bargain then they should get whats coming too them.

I know plenty of athletes who don't get paid and give up everything to achieve their dreams.

These guys are spoilt brats who need to learn what commitment is. Commitment to your sport and commitment to your work contract

I suppose there would be plenty of people who work who aren't committed. I can honestly say I have never been committed to a job when I worked for others but I am when I work for myself. If you treat it as a team sport then you certainly should be committed as you are letting down others if you stuff up. I certainly couldn't do what a player has to do but then again I certainly aren't a elite athlete. Having said that its pathetic they had to drink a day before a game. That I could control.

Sometimes I think I should be committed

[matrix]

I don't even know what he meant ffs

[mad saint guy]

People are individuals and should be treated like it.

Absolutely this. Agree with the entire post. Blanket bans on drinking and curfews really shouldn't be necessary. Treat players like children and impose rules on them and there's a temptation to break them and lie about it.

What works for some might not work for others. If a glass of wine helps a player relax and get to sleep with ease then that's just not anyone else's business. If he was knocking off a bottle then it would be a concern, as it would affect hydration and vitamin levels the next day as well as the quality of sleep; club intervention is fair enough in that scenario.

When I first moved to Melbourne for uni I used to work in a hotel where a few interstate teams stayed for Melbourne games and it was very interesting seeing the different approaches to preparation/recovery taken by players. Brisbane and Freo were absolutely not allowed to consume alcohol but West Coast were more lax on this. A beer or glass of wine on the night before a game was ok and a few beers after a game was perfectly acceptable (and a few more if you're Dean Cox). West Coast finished top 4 that year, Cox polled 18 Brownlow votes and neither Freo or Brisbane made the finals; didn't seem to be affecting their performance (this was after their period of potentially affecting their performance with other substances too).

[plugger66]

People are individuals and should be treated like it.

Absolutely this. Agree with the entire post. Blanket bans on drinking and curfews really shouldn't be necessary. Treat players like children and impose rules on them and there's a temptation to break them and lie about it.

What works for some might not work for others. If a glass of wine helps a player relax and get to sleep with ease then that's just not anyone else's business. If he was knocking off a bottle then it would be a concern, as it would affect hydration and vitamin levels the next day as well as the quality of sleep; club intervention is fair enough in that scenario.

When I first moved to Melbourne for uni I used to work in a hotel where a few interstate teams stayed for Melbourne games and it was very interesting seeing the different approaches to preparation/recovery taken by players. Brisbane and Freo were absolutely not allowed to consume alcohol but West Coast were more lax on this. A beer or glass of wine on the night before a game was ok and a few beers after a game was perfectly acceptable (and a few more if you're Dean Cox). West Coast finished top 4 that year, Cox polled 18 Brownlow votes and neither Freo or Brisbane made the finals; didn't seem to be affecting their performance (this was after their period of potentially affecting their performance with other substances too).

So players can do as they want as long as they play well on game day. No sorry that doesn't work the way media is today. If the team as a group decide there is no grog on certain occasions then every single person must be in on it. The example you used is a team for a start so that those teams decided certain rules. It wasn't an individual decision as it should never be.

[Jacks Back]

Getting on it the night before a game is just inexcusable.

They should not be pro sportsmen if they cannot stay off it the night before a game.

Whats worse? Getting it on or Getting on it?

There is an arguement that a big night in the sack the night before the game may take the edge off.

Should the club have the right to ban sex, say 24, 48 hours before the game?

Do you mean with yourself or someone else? And would a Toy Saint be involved anywhere along the line?

[dragit]

People are individuals and should be treated like it.

Absolutely this. Agree with the entire post. Blanket bans on drinking and curfews really shouldn't be necessary. Treat players like children and impose rules on them and there's a temptation to break them and lie about it.

What works for some might not work for others. If a glass of wine helps a player relax and get to sleep with ease then that's just not anyone else's business. If he was knocking off a bottle then it would be a concern, as it would affect hydration and vitamin levels the next day as well as the quality of sleep; club intervention is fair enough in that scenario.

When I first moved to Melbourne for uni I used to work in a hotel where a few interstate teams stayed for Melbourne games and it was very interesting seeing the different approaches to preparation/recovery taken by players. Brisbane and Freo were absolutely not allowed to consume alcohol but West Coast were more lax on this. A beer or glass of wine on the night before a game was ok and a few beers after a game was perfectly acceptable (and a few more if you're Dean Cox). West Coast finished top 4 that year, Cox polled 18 Brownlow votes and neither Freo or Brisbane made the finals; didn't seem to be affecting their performance (this was after their period of potentially affecting their performance with other substances too).

Worked beautifully for Mainwaring, Chick, Cousins, Kerr and that bloke who was resuscitated in Vegas...

[mad saint guy]

Worked beautifully for Mainwaring, Chick, Cousins, Kerr and that bloke who was resuscitated in Vegas...

A quiet beer at the club's hotel is a tad different to coke benders in Vegas.

[Saints94]

People are individuals and should be treated like it.

Absolutely this. Agree with the entire post. Blanket bans on drinking and curfews really shouldn't be necessary. Treat players like children and impose rules on them and there's a temptation to break them and lie about it.

What works for some might not work for others. If a glass of wine helps a player relax and get to sleep with ease then that's just not anyone else's business. If he was knocking off a bottle then it would be a concern, as it would affect hydration and vitamin levels the next day as well as the quality of sleep; club intervention is fair enough in that scenario.

When I first moved to Melbourne for uni I used to work in a hotel where a few interstate teams stayed for Melbourne games and it was very interesting seeing the different approaches to preparation/recovery taken by players. Brisbane and Freo were absolutely not allowed to consume alcohol but West Coast were more lax on this. A beer or glass of wine on the night before a game was ok and a few beers after a game was perfectly acceptable (and a few more if you're Dean Cox). West Coast finished top 4 that year, Cox polled 18 Brownlow votes and neither Freo or Brisbane made the finals; didn't seem to be affecting their performance (this was after their period of potentially affecting their performance with other substances too).

Worked beautifully for Mainwaring, Chick, Cousins, Kerr and that bloke who was resuscitated in Vegas...

Chad Fletcher?

[mordi]

Some of our boys were having a beer in the Virgin lounge on Sunday ... one or two is OK.
I did hear reports that they had quite a few after the Wellington game also..... at the hotel bar. Anyone aware of that?

[saynta]

Some of our boys were having a beer in the Virgin lounge on Sunday ... one or two is OK.
I did hear reports that they had quite a few after the Wellington game also..... at the hotel bar. Anyone aware of that?

Why post that on here?

Even if I was aware I wouldn't be posting that sort of gossip on a public internet forum.

[mordi]

Some of our boys were having a beer in the Virgin lounge on Sunday ... one or two is OK.
I did hear reports that they had quite a few after the Wellington game also..... at the hotel bar. Anyone aware of that?

Why post that on here?

Even if I was aware I wouldn't be posting that sort of gossip on a public internet forum.

In the context of the thread , quite reasonable I believe.....

But it is hardly gossip.

One was my first hand observation ,
The NZ was second hand from a reliable attendee.