Lower your expectations of what Freeman achieves this year

[Bluthy]

Some of the quotes peppered around on this board about Freeman are almost insane: "Clearly in our best 22", "It's his third year so he'll be chucked in the deep end", "Freeman could really be the difference for our midfield this year year".

Freeman has barely played a single game of adult footy. The best way to think of him is that he's basically a first year player as until you start learning how to actualise all the practice drills and white board info into the chaos of genuine footy games, then its all just theory. Freeman has had a heavily modified preseason program with us, and recently has been out for at least 3 weeks after tweaking his hammy (could be longer if the club takes an ultra cautious approach). This is on the back of 2 years of serious injuries curtailing a lot of his fitness base. We would have a lot of first and 2 year players who currently have better fitness than Freeman.

I'm guessing that Freeman will play a fair chunk of this year in the VFL where the pace is slower and he can be very carefully managed in a way you can't in the AFL where the stakes are higher. Playing only quarters or two, being played in a pocket, coming straight off if he feels something isn't right, can focus on his modified running style they say he is doing that will take a while to become automatic. If he can play a full season of footy (mainly in the VFL) and then do a full preseason next year, the club would be over the moon at having a strong base for him to attack AFL footy next year. He needs to start playing footy and getting feedback from the coaches. Midfielders are the ones most in need of soaking in the ebb and flow of footy so it becomes intuitive for them how to get to contests, where they need to be etc. VFL would be the safest route to make sure Nathan gets some solid footy under his belt this year and feels like a footy player again.

This desperation for "elite midfielders" that people are constantly lusting for here, has created this fixation on Freeman because he was a top ten pick several years ago. He is only one piece of the puzzle. We have invested quite heavily in mids with high picks recently - Billings, Dunstan, Acres, Gresham, Ross, Newnes - to go with the very good current seniors in Armo, Steven and Joey. Then we've got guys like Minchington, Curren, McKenzie, Weller, Savage, Webster, Templeton, Saunders, Sinclair, Lonie, Murdoch, Wright, to keep trying out and could be second unit options through the middle (and which ones we discard).

We've planted a lot of seeds, now we need a little patience as we watch which ones in our midfield garden grow. Apart from rare exceptions you don't get elite midfielders from 1, 2 & 3 year players.

[ripplug66]

Some of the quotes peppered around on this board about Freeman are almost insane: "Clearly in our best 22", "It's his third year so he'll be chucked in the deep end", "Freeman could really be the difference for our midfield this year year".

Freeman has barely played a single game of adult footy. The best way to think of him is that he's basically a first year player as until you start learning how to actualise all the practice drills and white board info into the chaos of genuine footy games, then its all just theory. Freeman has had a heavily modified preseason program with us, and recently has been out for at least 3 weeks after tweaking his hammy (could be longer if the club takes an ultra cautious approach). This is on the back of 2 years of serious injuries curtailing a lot of his fitness base. We would have a lot of first and 2 year players who currently have better fitness than Freeman.

I'm guessing that Freeman will play a fair chunk of this year in the VFL where the pace is slower and he can be very carefully managed in a way you can't in the AFL where the stakes are higher. Playing only quarters or two, being played in a pocket, coming straight off if he feels something isn't right, can focus on his modified running style they say he is doing that will take a while to become automatic. If he can play a full season of footy (mainly in the VFL) and then do a full preseason next year, the club would be over the moon at having a strong base for him to attack AFL footy next year. He needs to start playing footy and getting feedback from the coaches. Midfielders are the ones most in need of soaking in the ebb and flow of footy so it becomes intuitive for them how to get to contests, where they need to be etc. VFL would be the safest route to make sure Nathan gets some solid footy under his belt this year and feels like a footy player again.

This desperation for "elite midfielders" that people are constantly lusting for here, has created this fixation on Freeman because he was a top ten pick several years ago. He is only one piece of the puzzle. We have invested quite heavily in mids with high picks recently - Billings, Dunstan, Acres, Gresham, Ross, Newnes - to go with the very good current seniors in Armo, Steven and Joey. Then we've got guys like Minchington, Curren, McKenzie, Weller, Savage, Webster, Templeton, Saunders, Sinclair, Lonie, Murdoch, Wright, to keep trying out and could be second unit options through the middle (and which ones we discard).

We've planted a lot of seeds, now we need a little patience as we watch which ones in our midfield garden grow. Apart from rare exceptions you don't get elite midfielders from 1, 2 & 3 year players.

I'm not lowering it because the club aren't lowering it. We didn't recruit a third year player on about 300K a year to play most of the season in the seconds. There is no desperation on my behalf because what I said is pretty much fact. If he is fit he plays in the ones, if he misses time then he stars in the seconds for a little and then plays in the ones. If he isn't fit he doesn't play. Actually he also needs to be good enough obviously but the club also obviously think he is.

[Bluthy]

I'm not lowering it because the club aren't lowering it. We didn't recruit a third year player on about 300K a year to play most of the season in the seconds. There is no desperation on my behalf because what I said is pretty much fact. If he is fit he plays in the ones, if he misses time then he stars in the seconds for a little and then plays in the ones. If he isn't fit he doesn't play. Actually he also needs to be good enough obviously but the club also obviously think he is.

So selection should be based on how much players earn? That's one of the most absurd comments I've ever read here. So Thursday night selection meeting is basically a list of all available players salary and picking the top 22 earners? How much players earn clearly has nothing to do with team selection. Where would you get such a crazy idea?

Freeman was brought to the club to help win a premiership. That's the long-term goal they will base every decision around Nathan on. Not your short-term, bizarre, money-orientated thinking.

[ripplug66]

I'm not lowering it because the club aren't lowering it. We didn't recruit a third year player on about 300K a year to play most of the season in the seconds. There is no desperation on my behalf because what I said is pretty much fact. If he is fit he plays in the ones, if he misses time then he stars in the seconds for a little and then plays in the ones. If he isn't fit he doesn't play. Actually he also needs to be good enough obviously but the club also obviously think he is.

So selection should be based on how much players earn? That's one of the most absurd comments I've ever read here. So Thursday night selection meeting is basically a list of all available players salary and picking the top 22 earners? How much players earn clearly has nothing to do with team selection. Where would you get such a crazy idea?

Freeman was brought to the club to help win a premiership. That's the long-term goal they will base every decision around Nathan on. Not your short-term, bizarre, money-orientated thinking.

Did I say selection should be based on what they earn? No however what they earn is the value the club think the player will give and if he being paid 300K they think he is a firsts player. I agree it would be absurd if anyone said it but no one has so the absurdity goes to the person suggesting it was said.

And yes Freeman was brought to the club to hopefully win a premiership and like any third year player will play in the seniors round one if he is fit and his form is good enough. He has had 2 years already at AFL level even if he has hardly played. If you think all the pre season cant get a body right to play AFL footy in round one then I have no idea why they bother training before round one.

Do you honestly think a player would train for 4 months and then start in the seconds because they may only play him for a quarter or two? You do realise they probably have 10 intraclub games before round one. By the way I base all I am saying only if he gets through the whole pre season.

Now next time you have a go at my posts please read what I actually said and not what you think I am suggesting because what you think I was suggesting was clearly wrong.

[Vazelos]

If he is fit he will play Round 1, he is in his 3rd year in the system and is 20 turning 21 early in the season.
The only thing that will stop him is his fitness, if he has a severe set back again after his minor set back recently.
I spoke to him and he said he was fine and very confident he could train at full pace.
It will be interesting to see what will happen with him, the opinions are poles apart.

[Bluthy]

Did I say selection should be based on what they earn? No however what they earn is the value the club think the player will give and if he being paid 300K they think he is a firsts player. I agree it would be absurd if anyone said it but no one has so the absurdity goes to the person suggesting it was said.

And yes Freeman was brought to the club to hopefully win a premiership and like any third year player will play in the seniors round one if he is fit and his form is good enough. He has had 2 years already at AFL level even if he has hardly played. If you think all the pre season cant get a body right to play AFL footy in round one then I have no idea why they bother training before round one.

Do you honestly think a player would train for 4 months and then start in the seconds because they may only play him for a quarter or two? You do realise they probably have 10 intraclub games before round one. By the way I base all I am saying only if he gets through the whole pre season.

Now next time you have a go at my posts please read what I actually said and not what you think I am suggesting because what you think I was suggesting was clearly wrong.

I can barely understand anything you said there. You don't have to reply straight away. Take some time and get your thoughts in order.

[ripplug66]

Did I say selection should be based on what they earn? No however what they earn is the value the club think the player will give and if he being paid 300K they think he is a firsts player. I agree it would be absurd if anyone said it but no one has so the absurdity goes to the person suggesting it was said.

And yes Freeman was brought to the club to hopefully win a premiership and like any third year player will play in the seniors round one if he is fit and his form is good enough. He has had 2 years already at AFL level even if he has hardly played. If you think all the pre season cant get a body right to play AFL footy in round one then I have no idea why they bother training before round one.

Do you honestly think a player would train for 4 months and then start in the seconds because they may only play him for a quarter or two? You do realise they probably have 10 intraclub games before round one. By the way I base all I am saying only if he gets through the whole pre season.

Now next time you have a go at my posts please read what I actually said and not what you think I am suggesting because what you think I was suggesting was clearly wrong.

I can barely understand anything you said there. You don't have to reply straight away. Take some time and get your thoughts in order.

Good retort. My thoughts are pretty clear. You made up something that you thought I said that I never said and Freeman will play in the seniors if he gets through pre season and his form is good enough. It seems to me you think round one is the first game they play for the year. I'm suggesting its about their 10th even if some arent full on. If 4 months isn't enough training then we need new fitness people. By the way you seemed to take a while to respond but didn't come up with anything.

Having said all that I do find your posts interesting.

[Bluthy]

If he is fit he will play Round 1, he is in his 3rd year in the system and is 20 turning 21 early in the season.
The only thing that will stop him is his fitness, if he has a severe set back again after his minor set back recently.
I spoke to him and he said he was fine and very confident he could train at full pace.
It will be interesting to see what will happen with him, the opinions are poles apart.

So players who come late into the AFL system at 21 should play seniors straight away? What about Saunders and Murdoch and Wright - they are still playing VFL.

Its nothing to do with his age or how much money someone is paid or what their draft pick was. Freeman hasn't proven anything where the rubber meets the road - in competitive adult footy games. To me, Freeman is no different that Gresham or White or Rice. They have to prove themselves to get a game in the firsts and so does Freeman.

Paddy, Goddard, Acres, McKenzie all played a lot of VFL last year. There is nothing wrong with that. Its where you can learn with less pressure and prove yourself. Richo isn't going to gift anyone a game. There are tonnes of players who have skill and train well and are great at those video decision-making drills. What makes an AFL player is his ability to transfer it to the hurly-burly of competitive games. That's where peripheral vision, nerve, courage, being centered, following structures and footy intelligence all come in that no amount of practice will prepare you for. Freeman has proven none of that yet.

For me, nothing matters more than Freeman getting some serious footy under his belt this year and coming through without a serious injury. If he was to get another major injury, then I would have serious doubts about his ability to come back physically and emotionally. He needs to feel like he's contributing to a team, sitting in the rooms after the game, win or lose, having given sweat and blood with his team-mates. The safest road to do that with a body that has failed him for his first two years in the system is the VFL.

[st.byron]

Excellent OP. Seems like a balanced approach to me.

[Vazelos]

We know no one is given senior spots, they must be earned for sure.
No one has seen him play & we wont know his qualities and deficiencies fully until we see quite a bit of him but make no bones about it, he has been assessed by our club and has been offered a 3 year contract at $300,000 per year without playing a single game. There has been no backlash on this deal, in fact Collingwood were pretty pissed off he left. What does that tell you? It means he is rated by both clubs, those type of contracts are not offered willy nilly for anyone.
No one has a crystal ball but judging whats been written if he is fully fit Round 1 I believe he will be picked and I expect him to play most games unless his body fails him.
Maybe plugger 66 and I have jumped the gun a bit, time will tell.
He has a lot to prove for sure, its why we love the footy, so many questions need to be answered.

[ripplug66]

We know no one is given senior spots, they must be earned for sure.
No one has seen him play & we wont know his qualities and deficiencies fully until we see quite a bit of him but make no bones about it, he has been assessed by our club and has been offered a 3 year contract at $300,000 per year without playing a single game. There has been no backlash on this deal, in fact Collingwood were pretty pissed off he left. What does that tell you? It means he is rated by both clubs, those type of contracts are not offered willy nilly for anyone.
No one has a crystal ball but judging whats been written if he is fully fit Round 1 I believe he will be picked and I expect him to play most games unless his body fails him.
Maybe plugger 66 and I have jumped the gun a bit, time will tell.
He has a lot to prove for sure, its why we love the footy, so many questions need to be answered.

We haven't jumped the gun because we both are saying it will be about form as well as fintness. If he isn't playing well he wont play. No one has said he would but I gather what we are both saying if the club think he is good enough and if he has a full pre season and is playing well enough he has as much right to play as Steven or Armo or any player playing well enough. There is enough pre season games to see how he is playing. They don't just come in cold no matter if they are Roo or Freeman.

[8856brother]

I will be disappointed if he fails to win the Brownlow.

[Vazelos]

My expectation would be he is at senior level, not VFL, but he has to earn that spot though.
That we all agree.

[magnifisaint]

I'm not lowering it because the club aren't lowering it. We didn't recruit a third year player on about 300K a year to play most of the season in the seconds. There is no desperation on my behalf because what I said is pretty much fact. If he is fit he plays in the ones, if he misses time then he stars in the seconds for a little and then plays in the ones. If he isn't fit he doesn't play. Actually he also needs to be good enough obviously but the club also obviously think he is.

So selection should be based on how much players earn? That's one of the most absurd comments I've ever read here. So Thursday night selection meeting is basically a list of all available players salary and picking the top 22 earners? How much players earn clearly has nothing to do with team selection. Where would you get such a crazy idea?

Freeman was brought to the club to help win a premiership. That's the long-term goal they will base every decision around Nathan on. Not your short-term, bizarre, money-orientated thinking.

Did I say selection should be based on what they earn? No however what they earn is the value the club think the player will give and if he being paid 300K they think he is a firsts player. I agree it would be absurd if anyone said it but no one has so the absurdity goes to the person suggesting it was said.

And yes Freeman was brought to the club to hopefully win a premiership and like any third year player will play in the seniors round one if he is fit and his form is good enough. He has had 2 years already at AFL level even if he has hardly played. If you think all the pre season cant get a body right to play AFL footy in round one then I have no idea why they bother training before round one.

Do you honestly think a player would train for 4 months and then start in the seconds because they may only play him for a quarter or two? You do realise they probably have 10 intraclub games before round one. By the way I base all I am saying only if he gets through the whole pre season.

Now next time you have a go at my posts please read what I actually said and not what you think I am suggesting because what you think I was suggesting was clearly wrong.

Totally agree with Plugger. You don't recruit players to play 2nds. If he's fit enough he will be played in the ones.

[Bluthy]

Totally agree with Plugger. You don't recruit players to play 2nds. If he's fit enough he will be played in the ones.

So Hickey and Longer are both automatic selections for the firsts next year? Savage, Weller and Bruce can all slack off as well - they are automatic ins.

[dragit]

You'd think with his history that he will need to build some form and confidence at a lower level before playing AFL... He's hardly had a kick at any level for 2 years.

Agree with the Bluth-dog... After another recent hamstring, I'd be very surprised to see him line up for round 1. A handful of quality VFL games though and he'll be given a promotion.

[Bunk_Moreland]

Bluthy is spot on. Freeman is a long term prospect.
Would love to see him string together 10+ games in a row, getting better each game and maybe slip into the seniors later in the season.
To say he is in our best 22 is ludicrous. The kid hasn't even played at VFL level for two years and some want him straight into the seniors. Crazy stuff

[ripplug66]

Bluthy is spot on. Freeman is a long term prospect.
Would love to see him string together 10+ games in a row, getting better each game and maybe slip into the seniors later in the season.
To say he is in our best 22 is ludicrous. The kid hasn't even played at VFL level for two years and some want him straight into the seniors. Crazy stuff

Again no one is saying he is in our best 22 yet. No one knows but he has as much right as anyone else if his form and training is good enough to play round one. He shouldn't be held back because he hasn't played for 2 years. He has 2 years training under his belt and if he gets through pre season he has another 4 months. If his form is good enough then he has a right to play. Bluthy said he should be treated as a first year player and whilst I totally disagree then that's fine. Didn't Lonie play the first game plat year as a first year player?

And Dragit why cant he get confidence and form in all the practice matches we have. Afterall that's how Lonie was picked in the first game last year and I'm sure that's also how some players aren't picked because their form isn't good enough. As Ive said many times all this is based on pretty much a full pre season and good form. He has no credits with us yet so he needs to show he can play but if he can he deserves as much chance to play ones as the other 39 or is he only player not able to play ones in round one? How silly would that be. That isn't counting our other recruit who is suspended.

[wally]

I would have thought even if we had a top 10 pick a couple of months ago there is no guarantee he would play round 1.
Freeman has been in the system a few years and may have a lot more ïntel" but really he's had no more AFL ground time than a new recruit.

[Bunk_Moreland]

Again no one is saying he is in our best 22 yet.

Agree that there's cause for optimism with some of our younger players coming into their 3rd and 4th years and hopefully really stepping up.
Reckon you're a wee bit rose coloured glasses with Freeman.
1. Yet to play a game because of dodgy hammies and injured again before christmas.
2. Even if he can get on the park, is he any good?

That's all irrelevant. Clearly he's in our best 22.

Didn't Lonie play the first game plat year as a first year player?

Had Lonie been out two years injured? Poor comparision

[borderbarry]

Sinclair, a first year rookie, also played first game last season did'nt he> That was based on his form, which I am sure will be the reason Freeman plays in the opening game, if he is in good form.

[BigMart]

Needs to be managed carefully

To think or suggest otherwise is ludicrous .... Has a well documented injury concern, the club is well aware of this, they did not recruit him for JUST 2016 (I am sure he didn't sign a 1 year deal)

Short sightedness is common with a simple man.

[BringBackMadDog]

Everything Plugger has said is correct, Freeman is like any other player on the list, if he is fit and his form warrants he plays in the seniors. To say that the club should keep him on ice or tread warily with him is just plain ridiculous and to say that he won't tear his hamstring in the VFl because the game is slower is also non-sensical, do you think that a player running down the wing in the VFL will actually run slower than in the AFL or won't bend as quickly? If Freemans hamstring is going to give out it will do so regardless of where he plays

[Bluthy]

Bluthy is spot on. Freeman is a long term prospect.
Would love to see him string together 10+ games in a row, getting better each game and maybe slip into the seniors later in the season.
To say he is in our best 22 is ludicrous. The kid hasn't even played at VFL level for two years and some want him straight into the seniors. Crazy stuff

Again no one is saying he is in our best 22 yet. No one knows but he has as much right as anyone else if his form and training is good enough to play round one. He shouldn't be held back because he hasn't played for 2 years. He has 2 years training under his belt and if he gets through pre season he has another 4 months. If his form is good enough then he has a right to play. Bluthy said he should be treated as a first year player and whilst I totally disagree then that's fine. Didn't Lonie play the first game plat year as a first year player?

And Dragit why cant he get confidence and form in all the practice matches we have. Afterall that's how Lonie was picked in the first game last year and I'm sure that's also how some players aren't picked because their form isn't good enough. As Ive said many times all this is based on pretty much a full pre season and good form. He has no credits with us yet so he needs to show he can play but if he can he deserves as much chance to play ones as the other 39 or is he only player not able to play ones in round one? How silly would that be. That isn't counting our other recruit who is suspended.

Plugger, you are clearly changing from your earlier viewpoint of "We didn't recruit a third year player on about 300K a year to play most of the season in the seconds". That clearly indicates that you think the club recruited him as a highly-paid gun and hence will go into the firsts straight away, plain as day. If you are changing your opinion, now talking about needing to prove his ability, that is fine, but don't whinge about being misinterpreted. If that isn't what you meant then maybe you need to take a bit more time to formulate your thoughts rather than replying at the speed of light.

You do realise Freeman isn't even at full training yet and we are now in January? And he's just come off a hammy tweek and so will most probably still be on a modified program for weeks more. The cautious, sensible approach says you play him through the reserves, and even then only when he is ready. They did the same thing with Acres last year. What Freeman is being paid is irrelevant. Thats a negotiated amount to get him to the club. After that it only has relevance for the payroll and salary cap guys. I see Acres and Ross as above him in the pecking order as we need to get senior games into them, as long as they show the neccesary form of course .

Even the Minch showed some really good form at the end of last year and if he replicates in preseason games deserves a shot in the big show. We need to keep trying out guys like Minch, Curren, Saunders to see if they can make the delisting at the end of the year. There is no need to panic with Freeman. His time will come. But he needs to play footy and VFL is the safest option.

I just think some people are building themselves up for disappointment if Freeman doesn't play much firsts this year because of the hype around him, but that unrealistic expectations to me, bit like the backlash with Paddy's year. Maybe I'm Mr Conservative on this. I guess we'll see.

[Bluthy]

Everything Plugger has said is correct, Freeman is like any other player on the list, if he is fit and his form warrants he plays in the seniors. To say that the club should keep him on ice or tread warily with him is just plain ridiculous and to say that he won't tear his hamstring in the VFl because the game is slower is also non-sensical, do you think that a player running down the wing in the VFL will actually run slower than in the AFL or won't bend as quickly? If Freemans hamstring is going to give out it will do so regardless of where he plays

Thats absurd Mad dog. Freeman is a unique case because of two years of hamstring injuries stopping him playing barely a game. It is acknowledged that VFL is less intense and slower than AFL. You have amateurs playing in the VFL. You also have lots more freedom to nurse a player in the VFL where the stakes are lower - playing one or two quarters, playing out of position etc. Yes s*** can happen anywhere, but its about playing the percentages.