changes for this week

[terry smith rules]

I think we risk blowing up some players for the entire year who now look cooked

So out

Hickey rested
Armo rested
Acres form
Webster form
one of Lonie/ Sinclair - Form

in
Fisher
Templeton
Murdoch
Longer or Pierce
Shenton (seems like in our best every week in the VFL)

[Bluthy]

Will only be Fish in, Lonie out. Almost guarantee it with my life. Richo and the match committee are risk averse. We are at the bottom of the "players used" table. They've decided this whole "development" approach is over-rated. Richo must have been on the blower to Lyon getting his approach to youth development ie leave them to rot in the VFL and play your old good ordinary players until they physically can't play any more.

[freely]

Reckon it would be a big mistake not to give the guys a chance to redeem themselves. If they don't or can't then maybe the match committee has to change it up - but got to give 'em a chance or risk sapping their confidence even more. Wonder if Eli might come in though.

[St Chris]

Will only be Fish in, Lonie out. Almost guarantee it with my life. Richo and the match committee are risk averse. We are at the bottom of the "players used" table. They've decided this whole "development" approach is over-rated. Richo must have been on the blower to Lyon getting his approach to youth development ie leave them to rot in the VFL and play your old good ordinary players until they physically can't play any more.

Criticism of Richo and the coaching staff for lack of youth development is the craziest thing I've ever read on the internet.....and I've read some crazy things

We're bottom of the players used list because we've pretty much had zero injuries.

Who is in the VFL banging down the door, that hasn't been tried and found short in the seniors??

[#gosaintas]

As long as the backline consists of Gilbert, Geary, Fisher and Dempster, we'll be fine. Who needs height or skill? Not the mighty Saints.

[degruch]

Will only be Fish in, Lonie out. Almost guarantee it with my life. Richo and the match committee are risk averse. We are at the bottom of the "players used" table. They've decided this whole "development" approach is over-rated. Richo must have been on the blower to Lyon getting his approach to youth development ie leave them to rot in the VFL and play your old good ordinary players until they physically can't play any more.

Criticism of Richo and the coaching staff for lack of youth development is the craziest thing I've ever read on the internet.....and I've read some crazy things

We're bottom of the players used list because we've pretty much had zero injuries.

Who is in the VFL banging down the door, that hasn't been tried and found short in the seniors??

Only Lee and Shenton really, from what I've read over the last few weeks. I like Capt Caveman, but I think he's been given a good enough run at the seniors and probably only useful as back-up. Lee might be a handy inclusion if we decide to rest Fish. Hickey may be able to do with a rest too, but we're hardly going to debut Peirce as a stand alone ruck and not sure we can carry two talls.

What message Richo decides to send the others, who knows. I'd be surprised if Sinclair is out, he only just got back in!

[spert]

Might be time for the coach to be rested- pretty poor team motivational effort in a game where we should have been a whole lot closer on the scoreboard.

[Bluthy]

Will only be Fish in, Lonie out. Almost guarantee it with my life. Richo and the match committee are risk averse. We are at the bottom of the "players used" table. They've decided this whole "development" approach is over-rated. Richo must have been on the blower to Lyon getting his approach to youth development ie leave them to rot in the VFL and play your old good ordinary players until they physically can't play any more.

Criticism of Richo and the coaching staff for lack of youth development is the craziest thing I've ever read on the internet.....and I've read some crazy things

We're bottom of the players used list because we've pretty much had zero injuries.

Who is in the VFL banging down the door, that hasn't been tried and found short in the seniors??

I'm being devils advocate to some degree but its interesting to try and get another perspective on "Richo is going a great development job" meme and maybe look for some flaws. He's played Lonie, a tiny 174 player, for almost every game of his short career and looks seriouisly cooked. I think he's played him relentlessly because he likes Lonie's pressure but the poor kid is tackling guys 5, 10, 20% bigger than him in every single tackle and bump.

When I heard Schneids was rookied after being delisted I thought it made sense so that he would out there in training drills and match simulation showing the kids the benefit of his experience and maybe play a game or two later on to fill a hole. Instead he's played all year and Minch, Curren and Saunders all languish in the VFL. Is that good development. Everyone says "Oh but he's teaching the kids on the field" but is he really? Elite experience can be the best teacher and many of our fringe young players didn't get access to it because Schneids was out there instead.

And just because we have few injuries doesn't mean you have to play all the oldies. We've only played 27 players this year, at the bottom of the table with flag contenders Sydney, WC and Geelong. WTF? We keep saying we are a young team but teams with a young average age than us:

13. St Kilda – 23 years and 303 days
14. Western Bulldogs – 23 years and 270 days
15. Melbourne – 23 years and 241 days
16. Gold Coast – 23 years and 197 days
17. Greater Western Sydney – 23 years and 99 days
18. Brisbane Lions – 22 years and 343 day

By the way you don't need to always be tearing up the VFL to be given a game in the ones - we are a development team after all and kids will naturally be inconsistent not capable of tearing up a whole game or string of games - flashes of what they are capable of can be enough to give them a shot. Playing well in the VFL - Paddy, Lee, MUrdoch, Eli, White, Rice, Shenton, Pierce, Wright (dodgy kicking yes but doing some great line breaking running). How many do you want?

So maybe just a few small cracks in the Richo Mr Super Development coach meme. He's been relying a lot on pressure and hard running as a main tactic. But that can take a real toll on young players. Port did something similar with their young kids with tonnes of running and fitness and some say their kids got burnt out.We looked flat as a tack on Sunday and we didn't have the tactics or structure to cover it. That was a worry.

[The_President]

Will only be Fish in, Lonie out. Almost guarantee it with my life. Richo and the match committee are risk averse. We are at the bottom of the "players used" table. They've decided this whole "development" approach is over-rated. Richo must have been on the blower to Lyon getting his approach to youth development ie leave them to rot in the VFL and play your old good ordinary players until they physically can't play any more.

Criticism of Richo and the coaching staff for lack of youth development is the craziest thing I've ever read on the internet.....and I've read some crazy things

We're bottom of the players used list because we've pretty much had zero injuries.

Who is in the VFL banging down the door, that hasn't been tried and found short in the seniors??

I'm being devils advocate to some degree but its interesting to try and get another perspective on "Richo is going a great development job" meme and maybe look for some flaws. He's played Lonie, a tiny 174 player, for almost every game of his short career and looks seriouisly cooked. I think he's played him relentlessly because he likes Lonie's pressure but the poor kid is tackling guys 5, 10, 20% bigger than him in every single tackle and bump.

When I heard Schneids was rookied after being delisted I thought it made sense so that he would out there in training drills and match simulation showing the kids the benefit of his experience and maybe play a game or two later on to fill a hole. Instead he's played all year and Minch, Curren and Saunders all languish in the VFL. Is that good development. Everyone says "Oh but he's teaching the kids on the field" but is he really? Elite experience can be the best teacher and many of our fringe young players didn't get access to it because Schneids was out there instead.

And just because we have few injuries doesn't mean you have to play all the oldies. We've only played 27 players this year, at the bottom of the table with flag contenders Sydney, WC and Geelong. WTF? We keep saying we are a young team but teams with a young average age than us:

13. St Kilda – 23 years and 303 days
14. Western Bulldogs – 23 years and 270 days
15. Melbourne – 23 years and 241 days
16. Gold Coast – 23 years and 197 days
17. Greater Western Sydney – 23 years and 99 days
18. Brisbane Lions – 22 years and 343 day

By the way you don't need to always be tearing up the VFL to be given a game in the ones - we are a development team after all and kids will naturally be inconsistent not capable of tearing up a whole game or string of games - flashes of what they are capable of can be enough to give them a shot. Playing well in the VFL - Paddy, Lee, MUrdoch, Eli, White, Rice, Shenton, Pierce, Wright (dodgy kicking yes but doing some great line breaking running). How many do you want?

So maybe just a few small cracks in the Richo Mr Super Development coach meme. He's been relying a lot on pressure and hard running as a main tactic. But that can take a real toll on young players. Port did something similar with their young kids with tonnes of running and fitness and some say their kids got burnt out.We looked flat as a tack on Sunday and we didn't have the tactics or structure to cover it. That was a worry.

Once you take out Riewoldt, Fisher & Joey from that list over the next few years our age will drop dramatically

[The_President]

I think we risk blowing up some players for the entire year who now look cooked

So out

Hickey rested
Armo rested
Acres form
Webster form
one of Lonie/ Sinclair - Form

in
Fisher
Templeton
Murdoch
Longer or Pierce
Shenton (seems like in our best every week in the VFL)

Shenton doesn't add more than Webster. Webster is faster & better skilled.
Templeton doesn't add more than Acres two weeks? Ago Acres was best on and the next God on here. And now you want to drop him because of "form" come on now.

Out of that list id only drop Lonie, because he's been garbage consistently all year.

[terry smith rules]

I think we risk blowing up some players for the entire year who now look cooked

So out

Hickey rested
Armo rested
Acres form
Webster form
one of Lonie/ Sinclair - Form

in
Fisher
Templeton
Murdoch
Longer or Pierce
Shenton (seems like in our best every week in the VFL)

Shenton doesn't add more than Webster. Webster is faster & better skilled.
Templeton doesn't add more than Acres two weeks? Ago Acres was best on and the next God on here. And now you want to drop him because of "form" come on now.

Out of that list id only drop Lonie, because he's been garbage consistently all year.

Acres yes has a huge upside, did he do one thing last Sunday, did he impose himself in anyway on the game. The answer is no I believe. The message to him is that yes he can be a star but he has to work

Webster, just got smashed up and and his disposal was awful. Shenton will play forward anyway

[barneyboyz]

We all but beat the Hawks, and all but beat North. West Coast at home was always going to be one of the more difficult games for us. Yes it was a fail, and mainly from a pretty good opposition midfield at that.

I would have a serious look at getting support for Hickey, and further than that, if someone genuinely needs a rest make one change through the mid, so that's two changes...Pierce and Eli for Lonie and Armitage

[SainterK]

We all but beat the Hawks, and all but beat North. West Coast at home was always going to be one of the more difficult games for us. Yes it was a fail, and mainly from a pretty good opposition midfield at that.

I would have a serious look at getting support for Hickey, and further than that, if someone genuinely needs a rest make one change through the mid, so that's two changes...Pierce and Eli for Lonie and Armitage

Essendon challenged North.

Am I the only one who thinks North are pretenders?

Hawks shadow of last year.

I think the footy barometer is a bit off this year, hard to judge a side against another.

It's as simple as judging the saints against the saints, which is like hills and valleys right now.

[The_President]

I think we risk blowing up some players for the entire year who now look cooked

So out

Hickey rested
Armo rested
Acres form
Webster form
one of Lonie/ Sinclair - Form

in
Fisher
Templeton
Murdoch
Longer or Pierce
Shenton (seems like in our best every week in the VFL)

Shenton doesn't add more than Webster. Webster is faster & better skilled.
Templeton doesn't add more than Acres two weeks? Ago Acres was best on and the next God on here. And now you want to drop him because of "form" come on now.

Out of that list id only drop Lonie, because he's been garbage consistently all year.

Acres yes has a huge upside, did he do one thing last Sunday, did he impose himself in anyway on the game. The answer is no I believe. The message to him is that yes he can be a star but he has to work

Webster, just got smashed up and and his disposal was awful. Shenton will play forward anyway

I'm so glad you aren't at the selection table.

Swinging the axe for the sake of swinging the axe & bringing in blokes after "decent" VFL performances is silly

[barneyboyz]

We all but beat the Hawks, and all but beat North. West Coast at home was always going to be one of the more difficult games for us. Yes it was a fail, and mainly from a pretty good opposition midfield at that.

I would have a serious look at getting support for Hickey, and further than that, if someone genuinely needs a rest make one change through the mid, so that's two changes...Pierce and Eli for Lonie and Armitage

Essendon challenged North.

Am I the only one who thinks North are pretenders?

Hawks shadow of last year.

I think the footy barometer is a bit off this year, hard to judge a side against another.

It's as simple as judging the saints against the saints, which is like hills and valleys right now.

Yeah I see that. We are like an old car with some "new" bits bolted on, but still waiting for the rest of it...sounds and goes hard, but with 60's suspension.

I am ok with this and I expect some more very good miles driven this year, but when the reco is finished...

[ROLS-LEE]

We all but beat the Hawks, and all but beat North. West Coast at home was always going to be one of the more difficult games for us. Yes it was a fail, and mainly from a pretty good opposition midfield at that.

I would have a serious look at getting support for Hickey, and further than that, if someone genuinely needs a rest make one change through the mid, so that's two changes...Pierce and Eli for Lonie and Armitage

Essendon challenged North.

Am I the only one who thinks North are pretenders?

Hawks shadow of last year.

I think the footy barometer is a bit off this year, hard to judge a side against another.

It's as simple as judging the saints against the saints, which is like hills and valleys right now.

GWS are a good side this year. So are the doggies. If both stay injury free, could go deep into September this year. Hawks swans Geelong and north haven't played too many good sides yet. Wait until they do before making anymore predictions on them.

[SemperFidelis]

We all but beat the Hawks, and all but beat North. West Coast at home was always going to be one of the more difficult games for us. Yes it was a fail, and mainly from a pretty good opposition midfield at that.

I would have a serious look at getting support for Hickey, and further than that, if someone genuinely needs a rest make one change through the mid, so that's two changes...Pierce and Eli for Lonie and Armitage

Essendon challenged North.

Am I the only one who thinks North are pretenders?

Hawks shadow of last year.

I think the footy barometer is a bit off this year, hard to judge a side against another.

It's as simple as judging the saints against the saints, which is like hills and valleys right now.

Yeah I see that. We are like an old car with some "new" bits bolted on, but still waiting for the rest of it...sounds and goes hard, but with 60's suspension.

I am ok with this and I expect some more very good miles driven this year, but when the reco is finished...

Love the analogy. Against North we were a Maserati GT with a temperamental gearbox.

Last week we were a beaten up Gemini Coupe.

With no disrespect to the humble Gemini intended.

[ROLS-LEE]

We all but beat the Hawks, and all but beat North. West Coast at home was always going to be one of the more difficult games for us. Yes it was a fail, and mainly from a pretty good opposition midfield at that.

I would have a serious look at getting support for Hickey, and further than that, if someone genuinely needs a rest make one change through the mid, so that's two changes...Pierce and Eli for Lonie and Armitage

Essendon challenged North.

Am I the only one who thinks North are pretenders?

Hawks shadow of last year.

I think the footy barometer is a bit off this year, hard to judge a side against another.

It's as simple as judging the saints against the saints, which is like hills and valleys right now.

Yeah I see that. We are like an old car with some "new" bits bolted on, but still waiting for the rest of it...sounds and goes hard, but with 60's suspension.

I am ok with this and I expect some more very good miles driven this year, but when the reco is finished...

Love the analogy. Against North we were a Maserati GT with a temperamental gearbox.

Last week we were a beaten up Gemini Coupe.

With no disrespect to the humble Gemini intended.

Against WCE I think we were more of a datsun 120 y (bother). But yes I laughed at the Maserati GT with temperamental gearbox problems although it sounds very expensive to fix.

[spert]

We all but beat the Hawks, and all but beat North. West Coast at home was always going to be one of the more difficult games for us. Yes it was a fail, and mainly from a pretty good opposition midfield at that.

I would have a serious look at getting support for Hickey, and further than that, if someone genuinely needs a rest make one change through the mid, so that's two changes...Pierce and Eli for Lonie and Armitage

Essendon challenged North.

Am I the only one who thinks North are pretenders?

Hawks shadow of last year.

I think the footy barometer is a bit off this year, hard to judge a side against another.

It's as simple as judging the saints against the saints, which is like hills and valleys right now.

Pretty good pretenders are North 8-0. We had a slim chance of challenging WCE and at least being competitive in yet another loss, but the result was unacceptable and shouldn't be written off as one of those things that happens- it was a mass failure by coach and team. To hear Richo say they didn't see it coming, was a real worry to me- might as well say "duh..they beat us..I wonder how that happened?". Gawd, is that the best he can do.

[terry smith rules]

I think we risk blowing up some players for the entire year who now look cooked

So out

Hickey rested
Armo rested
Acres form
Webster form
one of Lonie/ Sinclair - Form

in
Fisher
Templeton
Murdoch
Longer or Pierce
Shenton (seems like in our best every week in the VFL)

Shenton doesn't add more than Webster. Webster is faster & better skilled.
Templeton doesn't add more than Acres two weeks? Ago Acres was best on and the next God on here. And now you want to drop him because of "form" come on now.

Out of that list id only drop Lonie, because he's been garbage consistently all year.

Acres yes has a huge upside, did he do one thing last Sunday, did he impose himself in anyway on the game. The answer is no I believe. The message to him is that yes he can be a star but he has to work

Webster, just got smashed up and and his disposal was awful. Shenton will play forward anyway

I'm so glad you aren't at the selection table.

Swinging the axe for the sake of swinging the axe & bringing in blokes after "decent" VFL performances is silly

If a 102 point loss does not justify swinging the axe not sure what does. All this talk of redemption is ridiculous. Players playing well in the VFL must be rewarded.

The fact that we have only used 27 players is a bad thing. If we were 6-2 sure I can live with that, we are 2-8 with a couple of really ordinary games in there and we are still not trying others.

Good sides rotate their player because you know you have a squad of 40 or so fit and ready to go, and we should be playing a team as a squad not Team A and Team B as separate entities

fqf

[barneyboyz]

We all but beat the Hawks, and all but beat North. West Coast at home was always going to be one of the more difficult games for us. Yes it was a fail, and mainly from a pretty good opposition midfield at that.

I would have a serious look at getting support for Hickey, and further than that, if someone genuinely needs a rest make one change through the mid, so that's two changes...Pierce and Eli for Lonie and Armitage

Essendon challenged North.

Am I the only one who thinks North are pretenders?

Hawks shadow of last year.

I think the footy barometer is a bit off this year, hard to judge a side against another.

It's as simple as judging the saints against the saints, which is like hills and valleys right now.

Yeah I see that. We are like an old car with some "new" bits bolted on, but still waiting for the rest of it...sounds and goes hard, but with 60's suspension.

I am ok with this and I expect some more very good miles driven this year, but when the reco is finished...

Love the analogy. Against North we were a Maserati GT with a temperamental gearbox.

Last week we were a beaten up Gemini Coupe.

With no disrespect to the humble Gemini intended.

Ha ha, yeah the Gemini. Seriously though this week's midfield issues were evident last week against North, technically North should've monstered us just as much. Richo and the selection group should have seen this coming as North just didn't get hold of us like WC. I do know that if half of us here knew the answer, we'd be coach...

Just for interest sake, I wouldn't mind going back over our better performances and have a real good look at the midfield and in particular, where the fight backs came from

[barneyboyz]

We all but beat the Hawks, and all but beat North. West Coast at home was always going to be one of the more difficult games for us. Yes it was a fail, and mainly from a pretty good opposition midfield at that.

I would have a serious look at getting support for Hickey, and further than that, if someone genuinely needs a rest make one change through the mid, so that's two changes...Pierce and Eli for Lonie and Armitage

Essendon challenged North.

Am I the only one who thinks North are pretenders?

Hawks shadow of last year.

I think the footy barometer is a bit off this year, hard to judge a side against another.

It's as simple as judging the saints against the saints, which is like hills and valleys right now.

Pretty good pretenders are North 8-0. We had a slim chance of challenging WCE and at least being competitive in yet another loss, but the result was unacceptable and shouldn't be written off as one of those things that happens- it was a mass failure by coach and team. To hear Richo say they didn't see it coming, was a real worry to me- might as well say "duh..they beat us..I wonder how that happened?". Gawd, is that the best he can do.

I see this year that we are playing pretty good footy (at times) when running hard and creating pressure; this is generally against much harder bodies, and mostly in Melbourne. North may not be there at the end, or even Hawthorn but if there was one area we have been competitive, that is pressure. Now North, Port, WB, Hawks and now WC (in the most part) have all bettered our pressure for longer, but that was expected in these games.

Remember, this hasn't been an easy start to the season by any means, yes changes should be made and soon, but there's just as much to learn about how our players respond to losses as the wins

[shrodes]

Essendon challenged North.

Am I the only one who thinks North are pretenders?

Hawks shadow of last year.

I think the footy barometer is a bit off this year, hard to judge a side against another.

It's as simple as judging the saints against the saints, which is like hills and valleys right now.

I'm with you re: North being pretenders. Only legitimate contenders they've beaten this year were Adelaide (at Etihad) and Bulldogs, both narrowly.
They had two 4th quarter fade outs in the last two weeks against us and Essendon, and they are a middling team with almost zero superstars. I honestly can't see them getting close to a Grand Final this year.

[bigcarl]

In: Fisher, McCartin.
Out: Any small forward who doesn't contribute in the midfield

[saintspremiers]

No changes. Just to entertain me on SS