On the couch

[saynta]

King last night on the show, was promoting Jack Steven for selection as All Australian.

Had a chart showing Jack wwas elite in all five categories , something not usually found.

Rated him in front of Selwood for AA.

I would have to agree with him. I have rated Jack as elite all year.

Certainly now an A grade footballer.

[stonecold]

King last night on the show, was promoting Jack Steven for selection as All Australian.

Had a chart showing Jack wwas elite in all five categories , something not usually found.

Rated him in front of Selwood for AA.

I would hace to agree with him. I have rated Jack as elite all year.

Certainly now an a grade footballer.

+1!!!!!

[prwilkinson]

Yep, Jack is a jet. Tom Hickey and Jacky boy seem to be developing a real chemistry too... got to love that.

[Sainternist]

I had a feeling Jackie would develop into an elite player all along. Still can't understand why Ross Lyon wasn't getting more experience in him during 2009 and 2010. He and Armitage should have been selected in those teams more frequently. They were even far more talented back then than some of those fringe players who were selected ahead of them.

[bigcarl]

Yep, Jack is a jet. Tom Hickey and Jacky boy seem to be developing a real chemistry too... got to love that.

He is. Now we just need a couple of A-grade mids to complement Hickey, Steven and Ross. I give Armo a B to B+ as he's not consistently at his best. Dunstan I give a C. Solid but unremarkable

[darylcowie]

Yes, Hickey Ross and Steven have now established themselves in our stoppage set up for sure.

I wouldn't mind seeing Weller in there too, because he is a contest beast and can also take off on the outside, unlike Dunstan, Armitage etc.

[St Chris]

King has been on the AA bandwagon for a while now....probably has cash on Jack or something.

Not saying Steven doesn't deserve the recognition or wouldn't be a worthy AA selection, its just too easy for the footy media to spruik the safe bets, and the All Australian selectors mostly follow the similar pattern.

[kosifantutti]

He won't get into Matthew Lloyd's AA team if we keep playing on a Sunday.

Lloyd reacts to whoever played well on Friday or Saturday.

[carn_sainter]

I think the best gauge of which players are having the best season (slightly different to the best players in the comp) is the Coaches' Association votes. At present:

76 Rory Sloane (Adel)
69 Patrick Dangerfield (Geel)
64 Dustin Martin (Rich)
64 Joel Selwood (Geel)
63 Luke Shuey (WCE)
59 Marcus Bontempelli (WB)
55 Dan Hannebery (Syd)
51 Todd Goldstein (NM)
51 Luke Parker (Syd)
51 Jack Steven (StK)

9 midfielders and 1 ruckman.

Steven is undoubtably a star. Lots of the footy but his defensive work and pressure is as good as anybody in the comp. As good a role model for hard work on the field as any of the greats this club has had. He's looking more confident and competent in front of goal too!

A very deserving leader of the B&F at this point in the season

[stkfc1]

Yep, Jack is a jet. Tom Hickey and Jacky boy seem to be developing a real chemistry too... got to love that.

He is. Now we just need a couple of A-grade mids to complement Hickey, Steven and Ross. I give Armo a B to B+ as he's not consistently at his best. Dunstan I give a C. Solid but unremarkable

I think the best gauge of which players are having the best season (slightly different to the best players in the comp) is the Coaches' Association votes. At present:

76 Rory Sloane (Adel)
69 Patrick Dangerfield (Geel)
64 Dustin Martin (Rich)
64 Joel Selwood (Geel)
63 Luke Shuey (WCE)
59 Marcus Bontempelli (WB)
55 Dan Hannebery (Syd)
51 Todd Goldstein (NM)
51 Luke Parker (Syd)
51 Jack Steven (StK)

9 midfielders and 1 ruckman.

Steven is undoubtably a star. Lots of the footy but his defensive work and pressure is as good as anybody in the comp. As good a role model for hard work on the field as any of the greats this club has had. He's looking more confident and competent in front of goal too!

A very deserving leader of the B&F at this point in the season

He's basically had to do it all by himself this year with Ross and Hickey lending a hand. Imagine what he'd be like in an A grade midfield! Thats the thing that stands out to me on that list. All those other players have a really strong support cast while Steven is basically a one man show. Just hope he can hold this form for a few more years while we build a midfield around him. Hickey and Ross are a great start.

[st.byron]

Yep, Jack is a jet. Tom Hickey and Jacky boy seem to be developing a real chemistry too... got to love that.

He is. Now we just need a couple of A-grade mids to complement Hickey, Steven and Ross. I give Armo a B to B+ as he's not consistently at his best. Dunstan I give a C. Solid but unremarkable

Dunstan is very under rated by several posters. He's still 21. Doing a blocking, bullocking job every week and knocking up 20+ possessions. Tough, quick hands in close, good vision, smart. And still only 21 doing the job of a hard bodied, mature inside, highly physical player. Possession count isn't everything, even though Luke holds his own there too. I'm a big fan and I reckon he's going to be an elite inside mid. Needs to develop his tank more and I'm sure is in the process of doing so. Patience patience patience. Many posters writing him off or pigeon hoping him as a slow B or C grader. Way off the mark IMO.

[White Winmar]

Yep, Jack is a jet. Tom Hickey and Jacky boy seem to be developing a real chemistry too... got to love that.

He is. Now we just need a couple of A-grade mids to complement Hickey, Steven and Ross. I give Armo a B to B+ as he's not consistently at his best. Dunstan I give a C. Solid but unremarkable

Dunstan is very under rated by several posters. He's still 21. Doing a blocking, bullocking job every week and knocking up 20+ possessions. Tough, quick hands in close, good vision, smart. And still only 21 doing the job of a hard bodied, mature inside, highly physical player. Possession count isn't everything, even though Luke holds his own there too. I'm a big fan and I reckon he's going to be an elite inside mid. Needs to develop his tank more and I'm sure is in the process of doing so. Patience patience patience. Many posters writing him off or pigeon hoping him as a slow B or C grader. Way off the mark IMO.

Spot on, St. B. I am bewildered by the criticism of Dunstan at times. He is still very much serving his apprenticeship. Third year in only and he is carrying a lot of responsibility. I think he's tracking well. Just look at how Seb Ross has burst from the blocks this year. I suspect Dunstan is on a similar trajectory. He will be top shelf when he builds his tank.

[Vazelos]

Jack Steven has been carving it up for 3 years but now he is starting to get into a team half decent the football world is taking notice.
He played in a wooden spoon team and a bottom 4 side the last 2 years & basically did it on his own ( with help from Armitage last year).
Seb Ross & Hickey have given much needed help, imagine if he was in a top 4 side what he would do?
He is a gun & I expect him to win another 2 B & F at the Saints to become a Champion of our club.

Dunstan has some work to do on his mobility and tank if he is to carve a niche into this Saints mid field moving forward.
We are expecting a top liner to come in through free trade & the pecking order in mid field for mine now is:

1. Jack Steven
2. Seb Ross
2. David Armitage
4. Luke Dunstan

If we get an A grader they usually can offer Inside & Outside abilities plus elite clearances so this moves Dunstan out of the starting 18 & fighting for the interchange bench for mine next season ( remember Freeman we hope has to come in).

If young players dont improve they go backwards very quickly.

[White Winmar]

We really do need Freeman to deliver. If he does and we add another A Grader through free agency or trade, we should be ok going forward. I'm not super optimistic about Freeman. I saw a bit of him as a junior and he was a jet. He has all the attributes needed, but 3 years out of the game is a long time, especially at his stage of development. Dunstan's importance cannot be overestimated. We need everything to go right if we are to challenge in 2018.

[lintonstreet]

Yes, Hickey Ross and Steven have now established themselves in our stoppage set up for sure.

I wouldn't mind seeing Weller in there too, because he is a contest beast and can also take off on the outside, unlike Dunstan, Armitage etc.

Richo's very reluctant to throw Mav into the midfield as he places a huge emphasis on forward 50 pressure = MAV

[st.byron]

Yep, Jack is a jet. Tom Hickey and Jacky boy seem to be developing a real chemistry too... got to love that.

He is. Now we just need a couple of A-grade mids to complement Hickey, Steven and Ross. I give Armo a B to B+ as he's not consistently at his best. Dunstan I give a C. Solid but unremarkable

Dunstan is very under rated by several posters. He's still 21. Doing a blocking, bullocking job every week and knocking up 20+ possessions. Tough, quick hands in close, good vision, smart. And still only 21 doing the job of a hard bodied, mature inside, highly physical player. Possession count isn't everything, even though Luke holds his own there too. I'm a big fan and I reckon he's going to be an elite inside mid. Needs to develop his tank more and I'm sure is in the process of doing so. Patience patience patience. Many posters writing him off or pigeon hoping him as a slow B or C grader. Way off the mark IMO.

Spot on, St. B. I am bewildered by the criticism of Dunstan at times. He is still very much serving his apprenticeship. Third year in only and he is carrying a lot of responsibility. I think he's tracking well. Just look at how Seb Ross has burst from the blocks this year. I suspect Dunstan is on a similar trajectory. He will be top shelf when he builds his tank.

Agree with you. Am also somewhat bemused by the criticism and pigeon holing of Luke. He stepped straight from the draft into the team and has been there ever since. Was a man child out of the draft and that perhaps masks to some extent his need for time to develop, like other young guys need. He's still 21 and one of a clutch of young guys who deserve more time before people start writing them off as slow or not up to it. People want instant stars rather than waiting for players to develop like Ross and Hickey have done over the past few years before blossoming this year.

Share your doubts about Freeman. Off the park for years at his age is not a good sign. Thought it was a bad move drafting him and it doesn't look good. Fingers crossed. Would be awesome if it comes off and turns into the jet he's threatened to be. And if we chase O'Meara at the end of this year........

[Long Term Injury]

Yes, Hickey Ross and Steven have now established themselves in our stoppage set up for sure.

I wouldn't mind seeing Weller in there too, because he is a contest beast and can also take off on the outside, unlike Dunstan, Armitage etc.

Great call, I've been thinking this for a while and have noted now that wright is playing high half forward in a weller mold. Which all might mean that the coaches are thinking him as replacing weller as he steps more into the midfield. I agree that the prospect of weller bursting through packs is pretty tantalizing.

[snoopygirl]

Yes, Hickey Ross and Steven have now established themselves in our stoppage set up for sure.

I wouldn't mind seeing Weller in there too, because he is a contest beast and can also take off on the outside, unlike Dunstan, Armitage etc.

Great call, I've been thinking this for a while and have noted now that wright is playing high half forward in a weller mold. Which all might mean that the coaches are thinking him as replacing weller as he steps more into the midfield. I agree that the prospect of weller bursting through packs is pretty tantalizing.

Was just about to say the same thing. Wright can add that defensive grunt needed to lock it in the forward line which frees Weller up to play more of a midfield role. He also has the advantage of being able to kick with both feet & knows where the goals are.

[bigcarl]

Yep, Jack is a jet. Tom Hickey and Jacky boy seem to be developing a real chemistry too... got to love that.

He is. Now we just need a couple of A-grade mids to complement Hickey, Steven and Ross. I give Armo a B to B+ as he's not consistently at his best. Dunstan I give a C. Solid but unremarkable

Dunstan is very under rated by several posters. He's still 21. Doing a blocking, bullocking job every week and knocking up 20+ possessions. Tough, quick hands in close, good vision, smart. And still only 21 doing the job of a hard bodied, mature inside, highly physical player. Possession count isn't everything, even though Luke holds his own there too. I'm a big fan and I reckon he's going to be an elite inside mid. Needs to develop his tank more and I'm sure is in the process of doing so. Patience patience patience. Many posters writing him off or pigeon hoping him as a slow B or C grader. Way off the mark IMO.

Ok, C I concede was maybe a bit harsh. He may well develop into an A-grade inside mid, but he's always going to be primarily an inside player. Nothing wrong with that, but we need someone who can give a bit of dash as well.

I'm thinking Gresham, but Weller isn't a bad idea either.

You mention the term pigeon-holed. I don't think Gresham should be pigeon-holed as a small forward nad nor should Weller or Billings or Sinclair.

Mix it uo a bit and see if we can arrive at the best result.

[BigMart]

Dunstan averages 18ppg
7 kicks per game

That's just not enough footy ... Reason, he can't spread quickly enough.
He is too heavy, too slow.

What the hell is bullocking work??? Blocking?
All the mids block. It's a part of what you do as a mid...
Inside mids can be
Target
Sweep
Block
Or
First receive
Depending where they are in relation to ball drop at the stoppage and how they set up

[lintonstreet]

Dunstan averages 18ppg
7 kicks per game

That's just not enough footy ... Reason, he can't spread quickly enough.
He is too heavy, too slow.

What the hell is bullocking work??? Blocking?
All the mids block. It's a part of what you do as a mid...
Inside mids can be
Target
Sweep
Block
Or
First receive
Depending where they are in relation to ball drop at the stoppage and how they set up

Luke won 3 or 4 hard contested balls in the final qtr when asked to lift.
He's certainly not heavy at 84kg.
Yes he needs to work on his speed but he's lightened up since last year and has clearly improved his endurance.
At only 49 games, I have no doubt he has a lot more improvement left in him.

[Linton Lodger]

Yep, Jack is a jet. Tom Hickey and Jacky boy seem to be developing a real chemistry too... got to love that.

He is. Now we just need a couple of A-grade mids to complement Hickey, Steven and Ross. I give Armo a B to B+ as he's not consistently at his best. Dunstan I give a C. Solid but unremarkable

Dunstan is very under rated by several posters. He's still 21. Doing a blocking, bullocking job every week and knocking up 20+ possessions. Tough, quick hands in close, good vision, smart. And still only 21 doing the job of a hard bodied, mature inside, highly physical player. Possession count isn't everything, even though Luke holds his own there too. I'm a big fan and I reckon he's going to be an elite inside mid. Needs to develop his tank more and I'm sure is in the process of doing so. Patience patience patience. Many posters writing him off or pigeon hoping him as a slow B or C grader. Way off the mark IMO.

He'll be an A Grader don't worry about that.

[Playon]

Honestly how can you listen to these two, one was a tit grabber that potted his best mates misses and the other claimed he was going to have the same on field presence as Tony Lockett

[st.byron]

Dunstan averages 18ppg
7 kicks per game

That's just not enough footy ... Reason, he can't spread quickly enough.
He is too heavy, too slow.

What the hell is bullocking work??? Blocking?
All the mids block. It's a part of what you do as a mid...
Inside mids can be
Target
Sweep
Block
Or
First receive
Depending where they are in relation to ball drop at the stoppage and how they set up

He blocks and puts his body in to create a space where Steven and others can run to/from. To do that, he puts his body on the line and in the way of a lot of heavy contact. That's what I mean by bullocking. He can do it because his physical development was so advanced when he came through the draft. A man child. In a team with a more balanced list demographic he wouldn't have to carry so much of that physical work. Someone with a more mature body might do that kind of job. But at 21 he's doing it, holding his own and being criticised whilst we're still, rightly so, giving Acres, Eli, Billings, Gresham, Lonie, Sinclair and Gresham 'time to develop' . He also has very quick hands from inside and is very good at finding a target by hand running into space.

Agree he needs to develop his running and outside game more and is I'm sure working hard on it. From the club website, "Dunstan has trimmed down over the pre-season in a move to improve his outside game and ability to run and spread from stoppages". Give him another couple of years and see where he is. Not too many players have nearly 60 games under their belt at the end of their third year.

[BackFromUSA]

Yep, Jack is a jet. Tom Hickey and Jacky boy seem to be developing a real chemistry too... got to love that.

He is. Now we just need a couple of A-grade mids to complement Hickey, Steven and Ross. I give Armo a B to B+ as he's not consistently at his best. Dunstan I give a C. Solid but unremarkable

Dunstan is very under rated by several posters. He's still 21. Doing a blocking, bullocking job every week and knocking up 20+ possessions. Tough, quick hands in close, good vision, smart. And still only 21 doing the job of a hard bodied, mature inside, highly physical player. Possession count isn't everything, even though Luke holds his own there too. I'm a big fan and I reckon he's going to be an elite inside mid. Needs to develop his tank more and I'm sure is in the process of doing so. Patience patience patience. Many posters writing him off or pigeon hoping him as a slow B or C grader. Way off the mark IMO.

He'll be an A Grader don't worry about that.

+1